Moving to Germany: Aachen or Berlin?

freckly

Guten Morgen

I know there was a recent enough thread on moving to Aachen, but I hope some of you might be able to answer a few more questions please.I have been offered a job in Aachen and one in Berlin. From a career point of view the Aachen job is a better choice, but Im weary of moving to a smallish student city. I have lived in a few German cities before and had a great time. My last experience, however, wasnt great. I found it really hard to make friends, because most people my age were students and my colleagues were either far older than me or not interested in making friends at work. Has anybody experience of moving to Aachen in their late 20s to work? A general idea of the cost of a 2 bed apt including Nebenkosten? Oh and is there a schwarzes Brett style website for house searching?

Id appreciate the replies if anyone can help me. Danke

Merowig

http://www.quoka.de
Viel Erfolg!

And if the job in Aachen is better for your career I would choose that city instead of Berlin.

Berlin has an interesting cultural life and an interesting flair, but on the negative side a much higher crime rate, is poor and ruled by a left party...

Carry

Merowig wrote: »

Berlin has an interesting cultural life and an interesting flair, but on the negative side a much higher crime rate, is poor and ruled by a left party...

What's that got to do with anything? I'd be interested how you describe living in a city with a left party government. Besides, the Social Democrats aren't exactly left...

A city being poor has hardly anything to do with quality of life. Poor is relative anyway. A "poor" Berlin is still richer than, say, Dublin or Limerick. Not that the coffers of a city have anything to do with your life when you have a job.

And for the crime rate - crime can happen anywhere. The chance being a crime victim in Berlin is nearly the same as in Offaly.

OP, Aachen is a deeply conservative and boring town. Circles are closed, hard to make friends if you don't belong there for generations. Almost the same as in small town Ireland.
Berlin on the other hand has a more open society, as most big cities. It's full of blow-ins (and Irish pubs, good for first contacts).

If you're after contacts and a social life, Berlin is better. If you are more career orientated and don't mind being isolated, go to Aachen.

But then anything could happen. You might find a lovely circle of friends in Aachen or be lonely in Berlin, well, rather unlikely, but still. Depends on you and on circumstances.

Good luck!

Merowig

Carry wrote: »

What's that got to do with anything? I'd be interested how you describe living in a city with a left party government. Besides, the Social Democrats aren't exactly left...

The Social Democrats are left - and they rule the city in a coalition with the Communists.

Carry wrote: »

A city being poor has hardly anything to do with quality of life. Poor is relative anyway. A "poor" Berlin is still richer than, say, Dublin or Limerick. Not that the coffers of a city have anything to do with your life when you have a job.

Infrustructure of a city, public transport etc.
At least for me this has to do with my life.

Carry wrote: »

And for the crime rate - crime can happen anywhere. The chance being a crime victim in Berlin is nearly the same as in Offaly.

Sure - crime can happen anywhere - but it makes a difference if you life in Ballsbridge or in Finglas - or if you live in Aachen or in Berlin.

Carry wrote: »

OP, Aachen is a deeply conservative and boring town. Circles are closed, hard to make friends if you don't belong there for generations. Almost the same as in small town Ireland.


Berlin on the other hand has a more open society, as most big cities. It's full of blow-ins (and Irish pubs, good for first contacts).

If you're after contacts and a social life, Berlin is better. If you are more career orientated and don't mind being isolated, go to Aachen.

An Irish colleague of mine lived in Aachen as well and made friends there with whom she is still in contact. I agree that Nightlife and Cultural Life in Berlin is much more interesting - so depends on his priorities- working on his career or living for the present.

Aachen is also not too far away from Cologne and other bigger German cities (Ok I didn't liked to live in Cologne neither ;-) ) and should be easy to organise trips from Aachen to Belgium, France, Luxembourg, the Netherlands.

Carry

Merowig wrote: »

The Social Democrats are left - and they rule the city in a coalition with the Communists.

And this affects you how? What is it like to live under a "left government" in a democracy? You didn't answer my question.

Merowig wrote: »

Infrustructure of a city, public transport etc.
At least for me this has to do with my life.

Public transport in Berlin is affected by being a poor city? Public transport in Berlin is outstanding! Infrastructure is way better than anywhere in Ireland, i. e. hospitals, social services, culture etc!
Have you ever been in Berlin? If yes, tell me what it's like, please. I imagine it (as you seem to see it) as being a dull city, where communists lurk behind every corner to force you to unspeakable horrors, where no U-bahn, bus or train is working or even existing, people stumble around in rags and have nothing to eat, shops are empty, houses crumbling... :rolleyes:

Merowig wrote: »

An Irish colleague of me lived and worked in Aachen as well, made friends there with whom she is still in contact.

As I said, anything could happen. But you do know, that it's easier for girls/women to make contacts?


OP, some apartments in Berlin, just to check the rents (prices are without Nebenkosten=NK):
http://immonet.morgenpost.de/suchen-wohnung-mieten/berlin.html?toarea=&button_ergebnisse_anzeigen.x=95&button_ergebnisse_anzeigen.y=12&fromrooms=3&torooms=&SearchInfos=-1&listsize=15&marketingtype=2&fromprice=&city=87372&parentcat=1&toprice=&ct=y&districtsearch=yes&fromarea=&objecttype=1&outputtype=ajax&ct=y

If the link doesn't show (it's pretty long) google "Berliner Morgenpost"+Immobilien

Merowig

Carry wrote: »

And this affects you how? What is it like to live under a "left government" in a democracy? You didn't answer my question.

That are the governments who can't handle the money, have normally bad economic policies, are the first to cut back on police etc.,

There are hardly any big enterprises due to the great policies of the local administration. Therefor not many jobs as well. Sorry I have to compare Berlin with Stuttgart, Munich, the region around Augsburg and other Diamonds in Southern Germany.

On the otherhand if you are an artist or an intellectual Berlin is the place to go ;-)

Carry wrote: »

Public transport in Berlin is affected by being a poor city? Public transport in Berlin is outstanding! Infrastructure is way better than anywhere in Ireland, i. e. hospitals, social services, culture etc!
Have you ever been in Berlin? If yes, tell me what it's like, please. I imagine it (as you seem to see it) as being a dull city, where communists lurk behind every corner to force you to unspeakable horrors, where no U-bahn, bus or train is working or even existing, people stumble around in rags and have nothing to eat, shops are empty, houses crumbling... :rolleyes:

Yes I was in Berlin - it is pretty charming and I liked it. Nethertheless not sure if I would like to live there. Depends where in Berlin but sometimes you are not sure if you are still in Europe or you are already in Turkey or an Arab country.
Friend of mine lives currently there and he joked in regards to the current terror alert in Germany that it should be best if the army surrounds Berlin.

And yes I have seen crumbling houses as well
And it is not difficult to have better public transport and services than Ireland. Most medium seized German cities have a better infrastructure...
Berlin has currently debts of 61 billions (not far away from the sum Ireland might get as a bail out) and in the long term future it won't be allowed to make any more debts due to the change in the constitution.
And cutbacks in Infrastructure were therefore anouced from 2012 onwards.

Carry wrote: »

As I said, anything could happen. But you do know, that it's easier for girls/women to make contacts?

I would not say she is great in socialising. Therefor if she is able to make friends I won't see a reason that anyone else should have problems. But on the other hand Germans are in general more cold and distant towards strangers.

Carry

Depends where in Berlin but sometimes you are not sure if you are still in Europe or you are already in Turkey or an Arab country.

:rolleyes:
And you are from where?

Methinks you don't know much about Berlin apart from your preconceptions and probably a visit.
I'm born in Berlin and spent the better part of my life in the city (wrote a few books and features about it, too... :P). Still go there now and again to see friends and to enjoy the culture and the big city as such. I especially enjoy the "multikulti" - and that everything actually works!

Sorry OP, too many excursions from your original question perhaps. But maybe it gives you an idea at least about Berlin - from someone who is actually from there.

JoseJones

I've never been to Aachen but I moved to Berlin last summer and found it extremely easy to meet people there, the people are very open I found.

I lived in Neukölln aswell which is mostly Turkish people but I loved it! I would much prefer Neukölln to somewhere like Prenzlauerberg or Mitte.

Also the Germans may be a bit cold (I don't agree but some people think so) but Berliners are definitely very open in general.

freckly

Cool, thanks for the input. Big decisions to be made. Im leaning towards Berlin, because I was miserable the last time I was in a small German city. Probably not the most concrete of reasons, but the job there is good too. Im heading to Aachen next weekend just to get a feel for the place anyway. Any excuse to visit the Christmas markets!
Oh and I am a social person, found it strange the last time to be in this inbetween land of students and colleagues, when I didnt really fit into either group. Nor did I want to really!

janullrich

Merowig. What are you on? Germans cold to strangers? Wake up and see the modern Germany and the modern Berlin. Yes it is in debt but it is a very interesting city which is full of life as long as you have work. There is little crime that I witnessed unless u look for it. I have never being to Aachen so cannot judge but after living a few years in Berlin and my mum being there I think it is a great city. I would much prefere to have the lefts and the Social Democrats in charge of me then Fianna Fail. I did live in Duesseldorf for 6months and hated it as it really had a small town mentality. However that is me. Aachen could be different and good luck whatever u choose.

Carry

Merowig wrote: »

That are the governments who can't handle the money, have normally bad economic policies, are the first to cut back on police etc.,

You changed your post after the following answers, and it's not fair to change your post after people reacted to it. Well, it's actually pointless to argue with you.
But can't resist to write an answer to above quote re the policies of leftist/ communist governments:

I didn't know that Ireland is a deeply leftist and communist state!!! :D:D

Now I'm waiting that they "cut back on police", too... :pac:

peasant

I wouldn't go to either city actually ...they speak funny in both

Merowig

@janullrich I am German myself - born and raised there ( have some immigration background as well) - and that Germans are cold to strangers I have heared as well from foreigners and I see it as well so (I lived in Belgium and in the UK as well).
Don't believe that you are in a position to lecture me how modern Germany is therefore. ;-)

You might see it different - thats your opinion - I have mine.

Carry wrote: »

You changed your post after the following answers, and it's not fair to change your post after people reacted to it. Well, it's actually pointless to argue with you.

Carry I have edited my post two minutes after my original post
posted 16.58 - edited 17.00 (to remove some spelling mistakes) - The next post of a user was 17:48. So what is your problem exactly with my editing?


It's up to freckly to decide - it is his future and his career and it depends what his priorites are.


But am really amazed how people react when someone is not seeing her/his home city in such a good light as they believe it should be described.

janullrich

Thank God the new modern Germany is without people like you Merowig. You are typical of the old style mentality that people thought of Germans and Germany. Having lived a good few years in "modern Germany" I know that there are many nice warm people who want to meet other nationalities. Yes there are cold people but they are everywhere. Your approach is what people used to think of Germany. I reckon like what was already said you should live back in a big German city again. Your attitude might change to "your" country.

peasant

I would like to ask the gentlemen to down handbags there please.
(otherwise this here German might get very cold and strange )

jb-ski

peasant wrote: »

I would like to ask the gentlemen to down handbags there please.
(otherwise this here German might get very cold and strange )

Carry & Merowig, has Janullrich won???

this is actually quite an interesting debate, it's worth continuing, without the personal digs obviously?

Carry

I wasn't addressed by Mr. peasant, I'm not a gentleman , and I would never use one of my precious handbags for fighting

Yeah, could be interesting a discussion about Germans. But sadly such debates usually turn personal at some stage.

Maybe a new thread would be in order? Like "what are the germans really like?"
But then you'll get as many opinions as posters. Germans are generally people and not a uniform phenomenon. And people are such and such as everywhere.
Apart from the Suebians. They are a tribe in their own right. They don't even speak German...:D

peasant

Carry wrote: »

Apart from the Suebians. They are a tribe in their own right. They don't even speak German...:D

Du gell ...jedz isch no fei glei s'meischde gschwaedzd. Dohanna hoggd a Schwob am Drugger ...also Vorsichd

(losely translated: Careful now !)

(I am a Swabian and Carry knows that full well )

Carry

peasant wrote: »

Du gell ...jedz isch no fei glei s'meischde gschwaedzd. Dohanna hoggd a Schwob am Drugger ...also Vorsichd

(losely translated: Careful now !)

(I am a Swabian and Carry knows that full well )

I do, that is I do know, that's why

I'm only flirting .... as usual with disaster ...

peasant

Desperately trying to get back on topic ...

If one were to move to Berlin ...wouldn't much of the success of that move depend on where exctly in Berlin one ended up living and working?

I mean ...the city is vast. If you end up stuck in the wrong corner of it you might end up missing all the good bits and learn to hate it. The trendiness and awesomeness of Berlin doesn't happen all over, or does it?

Carry

Aah, forget to mention it earlier (was distracted, but I really meant to). Thanks peasant.

Freckly, wanted to tell you in an earlier post, that if you decide to go to Berlin, let me know, here or by pm. Though some other people might be interested, too, (or have other opinions) so why not doing it on boards. I'll give you the lowdown on:

- how to find an apartment
- apartments in Berlin as such
- pitfalls and NoNos
- where to live and where not
- where to go at night
- the public transport system (you really don't need a car in Berlin)
- maybe even first contacts (depends on age group, interests and such like) ...
... but here we come to Berliners as such again:

Living in Ireland for many, many moons I'm always surprised going back to Berlin (or other parts of Germany) how exceptionally nice and helpful people are. A trait not usually associated with Germans, but one you only, as a German at least, appreciate after being away for some time, apparantly.

Since I'm a foreigner myself in this country and was blessed with a lot of kindness, I'd like to give it back to everyone who wants to stay in my home country.

Gosh, I'm such a nice German, I could hug myself...

Merowig

@jb-ski what was to be won?
People have different opinions and a topic like this is very subjective - this is not Maths ;-)
(I could comment further here but that would be than borderline towards flameing *g* )

Berlin is as said charming - but for sure as well no paradise on earth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87nDEUscky8 (no copyright infringed as this is posted by the advertisement agency itself on youtube ;-) )
One advert which was filmed in Berlin - it is really athmospheric.
But this is not the whole city and not representative ;-)


Someone wanted to have advise regarding Aachen and Berlin - he got it, he got also different opinions (with some statements where I would say are not maintainable ) - now up to him as it is his future and he is the only one who can say what is good or bad/important and important for him - noone else.
So yeah topic / discussion is pretty done.


@peasant: Ich komme ausm Landkreis SHA . Selber?

jb-ski

Merowig wrote: »

@jb-ski what was to be won?

@ Merowig-That was a JOKE!

i was (am) enjoying this thread a lot. My knowledge of Germany is exclusively Bayern focussed, so it's interesting to get a different perspective from the other provinces.

I have visited Hamburg, Frankfurt, Berlin etc as a tourist, but i've spent a lot of time in Munich/Bayern in the past 21 years. So i'm a huge fan of 'Germany', despite my pretty one dimensional knowledge the whole country.

so i tend to see all things 'German' through rose-tinted glasses, hence my interest in such debates.

i also enjoy watching German tv; daily news, Tatort (so i know the murder rate there is huge;)), Wetten Dass (family viewing, also enjoyed by the non German speakers bei Mir zu Hause), & lots of other random bit & pieces..

so maybe another thread, as suggested already, is a good idea.

murphaph

peasant wrote: »

Desperately trying to get back on topic ...

If one were to move to Berlin ...wouldn't much of the success of that move depend on where exctly in Berlin one ended up living and working?

I mean ...the city is vast. If you end up stuck in the wrong corner of it you might end up missing all the good bits and learn to hate it. The trendiness and awesomeness of Berlin doesn't happen all over, or does it?

No, you could just as easily end up in a spieß part of Berlin! The difference is though that Berlin's transport is so good that it's often a better idea to live in the "boring" parts (possibly cheaper) and commute to the hotspots/work.

I have never been to Aachen but I like Cologne, which isn't too far away but far enough to prevent a social life forming there while living in Aachen I would say. Berlin is a metropolitan area of app. 4 million, but once you leave the metropolitan area there's very low pop. density-Berlin is like an island in some respects (though I often take trips out to Brandenburg/Meckpom etc. and there are some lovely things to see).

I managed to meet my GF in Berlin and find her and her entire family very welcoming. They are originally from the east, so not sure if that has a bearing on matters.

Empire o de Sun

I sometimes compare the east german and wet german debate to that of Cork and Dublin. Where one doesn't know there is an issue. I'm not saying which.

Personally I've met nice people from everywhere in germany and I've met a few Arschlöcher too, but geography isn't conditional on being one.