Do you think too?

Ave Sodalis

Personally, and I am not the only one who thinks this as it has been discussed on another website (can't find link now, but will come back with it if I ever do), that it is time we called ALL the world leaders together, sat them down and said 'look, it's time to clear debt from this world. It's time to start again and remove interest'. This would clear all the problems, everywhere by starting with a clear slate. Removing interest is a good step in keeping it clear as interest is just money that doesn't actually exist.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think that the world leaders are just too greedy and would prefer to have countries paying them then to allow them to stop, despite the fact that they would have no debt as well?

I think it's our only way out at this stage. We don't have the money to pay back the loans, most other countries don't have the money to pay back loans, Africa and all those Third World countries ended up Third World because they couldn't pay back their loans. It would solve many of their problems too

thetonynator

sup_dude wrote: »

Personally, and I am not the only one who thinks this as it has been discussed on another website (can't find link now, but will come back with it if I ever do), that it is time we called ALL the world leaders together, sat them down and said 'look, it's time to clear debt from this world. It's time to start again and remove interest'. This would clear all the problems, everywhere by starting with a clear slate. Removing interest is a good step in keeping it clear as interest is just money that doesn't actually exist.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think that the world leaders are just too greedy and would prefer to have countries paying them then to allow them to stop, despite the fact that they would have no debt as well?

I think it's our only way out at this stage. We don't have the money to pay back the loans, most other countries don't have the money to pay back loans, Africa and all those Third World countries ended up Third World because they couldn't pay back their loans. It would solve many of their problems too

Great plan, except we would still be borrowing again tomorrow, the debt will build up all over again and no one will want to loan to us in case it happens again.

And honestly, i cant imagine those who have loaned us their money not wanting their 90bn back for some reason . . .

Ave Sodalis

thetonynator wrote: »

Great plan, except we would still be borrowing again tomorrow, the debt will build up all over again and no one will want to loan to us in case it happens again.

And honestly, i cant imagine those who have loaned us their money not wanting their 90bn back for some reason . . .

We make enough here to not borrow. The government, if it remembers, works for the people. The people pay taxes to sustain the country (not government). If we became wiser in spending, and not blow the money on silly things we son't need, then we shouldn't need to borrow. I think what this recession has taught us is that there are serious flaws in the financial system and working with money. There are thousands, if not millions of experts out there. Surely one of them can think of a new system?

They might, if they remember that they don't have to pay back their debt in return. They don't have the 90bn now. They never really did, so they may forget about it and forget about all the money they owe and are owed. It is a far better way of working. Stop borrowing. Work with the money the country brings in itself, which can be achieved through mindful spending in the first place.

Faustino

Why not just abolish money then..

Of course it would never work.. it's quite a funny system when you think about it.. The ECB prints the money for us.. at a cost.. so for every euro that gets made.. we owe a percentage of that euro.. thus where the debt starts.. how do we pay off the debt?

By borrowing more money from them

It's the greatest swindle the world has ever seen.. and really i guess it all equates to slavery from which we'll never be free

Ave Sodalis

Faustino wrote: »

Why not just abolish money then..

Of course it would never work.. it's quite a funny system when you think about it.. The ECB prints the money for us.. at a cost.. so for every euro that gets made.. we owe a percentage of that euro.. thus where the debt starts.. how do we pay off the debt?

By borrowing more money from them

It's the greatest swindle the world has ever seen.. and really i guess it all equates to slavery from which we'll never be free

As then we shall use up limited resources in the world. There has to be something stopping us going on a mad rave and using up the world resources and being left with nothing. I was refering to the way money is used.

How do we pay off the debt? By not letting it happen in the first place. The example you refer to is not so much of a problem. The money is there to pay back, if we owe a percentage. It is when interest is introduced that the problems start.

Take for example there is only a tenner in the world. There are two people in the world also. One person owns the tenner. The other person wants to borrow it, but the first person wants the tenner returned, with a fiver interest. It is not possible as €15 doesn't exist. Yet this madness is the way things are done.

thetonynator

sup_dude wrote: »

We make enough here to not borrow. The government, if it remembers, works for the people. The people pay taxes to sustain the country (not government). If we became wiser in spending, and not blow the money on silly things we son't need, then we shouldn't need to borrow. I think what this recession has taught us is that there are serious flaws in the financial system and working with money. There are thousands, if not millions of experts out there. Surely one of them can think of a new system?

They might, if they remember that they don't have to pay back their debt in return. They don't have the 90bn now. They never really did, so they may forget about it and forget about all the money they owe and are owed. It is a far better way of working. Stop borrowing. Work with the money the country brings in itself, which can be achieved through mindful spending in the first place.

They will get the 90bn back, be it in 10 or 50 years time. But we do need to borrow - we have a massive budget deficit, and unless we use borrowing to fill that gap, the next time you go to collect your childrens allowance or go to a hospital for a check up or nedd a road fixed, it just wont happen -there will not be enough money.

We CANNOT default - we are at the mercy of the market until we get rid of the budget deficit.

thetonynator

sup_dude wrote: »

As then we shall use up limited resources in the world. There has to be something stopping us going on a mad rave and using up the world resources and being left with nothing. I was refering to the way money is used.

How do we pay off the debt? By not letting it happen in the first place. The example you refer to is not so much of a problem. The money is there to pay back, if we owe a percentage. It is when interest is introduced that the problems start.

Take for example there is only a tenner in the world. There are two people in the world also. One person owns the tenner. The other person wants to borrow it, but the first person wants the tenner returned, with a fiver interest. It is not possible as €15 doesn't exist. Yet this madness is the way things are done.

Unfortunately, there is no time travel, so we cant go back and unborrow the money. It just can't happen.

But you tenner example - well if there was only that much money, he will revert to barter and ask for the tenner and some object he wants to be returned - and money only works anyway if more or less everybody has some amount of it, however small that amount is.

Faustino

sup_dude wrote: »

As then we shall use up limited resources in the world. There has to be something stopping us going on a mad rave and using up the world resources and being left with nothing. I was refering to the way money is used.

How do we pay off the debt? By not letting it happen in the first place. The example you refer to is not so much of a problem. The money is there to pay back, if we owe a percentage. It is when interest is introduced that the problems start.

Take for example there is only a tenner in the world. There are two people in the world also. One person owns the tenner. The other person wants to borrow it, but the first person wants the tenner returned, with a fiver interest. It is not possible as €15 doesn't exist. Yet this madness is the way things are done.

Exactly.. if you actually research how the modern economies were set up, it's so dodgy.. like in America, the way the Federal government was introduced in particular.. real cloak and dagger stuff. The bankers basically met up and discussed how they were going to control America.. and thus the federal reserve was born and with it, all new taxes that never existed before

What essentially happened with Lisbon is that we voted on a European version of the Fed.. it may not be apparent just yet but in the coming years it will be more obvious what we've gotten ourselves into.

thetonynator

Faustino wrote: »

Exactly.. if you actually research how the modern economies were set up, it's so dodgy.. like in America, the way the Federal government was introduced in particular.. real cloak and dagger stuff. The bankers basically met up and discussed how they were going to control America.. and thus the federal reserve was born and with it, all new taxes that never existed before

What essentially happened with Lisbon is that we voted on a European version of the Fed.. it may not be apparent just yet but in the coming years it will be more obvious what we've gotten ourselves into.

especially seeing as it is self correcting . . .:rolleyes:

But we didnt pass lisbon - we said no, they came back again and we were more or less forced into saying yes.

Ave Sodalis

Faustino wrote: »

What essentially happened with Lisbon is that we voted on a European version of the Fed.. it may not be apparent just yet but in the coming years it will be more obvious what we've gotten ourselves into.

Were good as forced into:p ''Oh you vote NO. Okay, vote again, this time vote YES'' They probably would have kept going until we voted yes. This system will most likely collapse due to its instablity, and it would be better to get rid of it before this happens.


Edit- was beat to it

Faustino

sup_dude wrote: »

Were good as forced into:p ''Oh you vote NO. Okay, vote again, this time vote YES'' They probably would have kept going until we voted yes. This system will most likely collapse due to its instablity, and it would be better to get rid of it before this happens.


Edit- was beat to it

I often wonder what would have happened if we'd said no the second time.

Probably what is happening now. But all those lies on the posters.. "for a stronger Europe" "It's in our interest"

and best of all....





I wonder did they mean the IMF when these were printed?