Looking Ahead

gotBass

Right so,
I don't post much but all of the ranting blurb and negativity is getting me down, it's everywhere, reminds me of our obsession with house prices.

Instead what I'd like to know is how people think we can make the economy strong in the next 5-10-20 years. ( PLEASE NO RANT WAFFLE)

We punch above our weight when it comes to Foreign investment.
They see the upside so why can't we do it ourselves?

I believe that we should actually start producing goods rather than re-spinning other countries produce. Otherwise we'll only ever be helping everyone's economy but our own.

We have the brains in the country to become a world leader or near world leader in more industries, what we lack is vision/leadership. Or an objective to aim at. We can only rely on ourselves.
Otherwise we will end up having more of our national assets taken away, like the gas fields.

I'd dearly love to see the country using the graduates that we are exporting to help get us back on our feet.

At least if we try it's something, with effort comes self belief, and well who knows after that. but its a damn sight better than ranting raving and not actually doing something.

We're good in food sector, but how much comes form outside EU?
what about biofuels/ renewables
Heavy Industry, Ship yard or the likes(probably a bad example there).
clothing...

Anywho just need to stop thinking about the bad stuff for a bit, anyone else like this?

Sea Sharp

The country imports around 5 billion Euro a year in oil.

Research renewable energy by funding a load of graduates to carry out phds in the area. In this climate, they could fund a person's research for slightly more than what they'd get on social welfare.

thetonynator

1. Make agriculture more efficent -this is already underway. We have an awful lot of land and not an awful lot of people. Look at the news tonight -we are making a fortune exporting potatoes to the Russians this year. We have great potential in this area, but we need to export finished products, not raw materials. We can add value by putting our steaks in a polystyrene tray and covering it in cling film - its worth a lot more when you do that!!!

2. Further I.T. expansion - theres a lot of expansion going to go on here.

3. Make sure we are the BEST educated workforce in Europe - there is a lot of talk about the knowledge economy, university fees etc., but we are not getting it right at base level, primary and secondary school. If you don't start right you can't finish right - fro example, the junior cert is a joke, the lack of knowledge of intelligent students before they hit the leaving cert course is astounding.

4. Pharmaceuticals - Pump money into it.

5. Corporation tax - in a few years we can afford to have it even lower - that is if europe will let us.

6. Less public sector workers - the sheer numbers in the public sector are crippling the country.

7. End social partnership - never did a thing for this country.

8.Invest in renewable enrgy development - if an irish firm could patent a wave powered electricity generator they would be worth millions.

9. Reintroduce the punt - control our own interest rates when times are good and prevent reckless lending.

10. New political system - Our parties are all the same, no vision, and parochial politics has to end - introduce a list system.

11. Keep a very very very close eye on the banks and developers.

I'm sure i'll think of more!!

Ave Sodalis

thetonynator wrote: »

that is if europe will let us!

Close the doors on Europe! Why do we need them for the things we can get here. As the OP and thetonynator already said, we can produce enough here to keep us sustained. Export anything made in excess and import things we cannot make here.

Why do we have Europe anyway? To be part of a something? Well, what we are part of is giving us three weeks to shut down all the welfare systems!

Faustino

The major problem this country has apart from all the current b$.. is that we have no real industry. We don't manufacture vehicles or any kind of major furniture or even large scale textiles..

But like was said before.. we have a skilled workforce, we should easily be able to do these things. If we could manage to get in one of the major car companies back into the country it would be great, i know there used to be a ford plant back in the day.. and yes, i know it's very unlikely to happen.. it's just a thought i guess

thetonynator

sup_dude wrote: »

Close the doors on Europe! Why do we need them for the things we can get here. As the OP and thetonynator already said, we can produce enough here to keep us sustained. Export anything made in excess and import things we cannot make here.

Why do we have Europe anyway? To be part of a something? Well, what we are part of is giving us three weeks to shut down all the welfare systems!

We cant produce anything with out the farm subsidies as food prices are too low. They come from the EU. We cant export to the EU if we're not a memebr - at least not very much. We will have duty put on everything we want to get rid of.

All the big corporations, pharmaceuticals, i.t. companies, dell intel hp etc., they wouldnt be here if we weren't part of the EU.

Also, we couldnt borrow were we not in the EU, the only reason we're going to get bailed out is because they are so worried about their precious currency which we couldn't really give a sh!t about at this stage.

No, we need europe, but the reintroduction of the punt wouldn't be a bad idea as we could control our own finances and devalue our debt.

thetonynator

Faustino wrote: »

The major problem this country has apart from all the current b$.. is that we have no real industry. We don't manufacture vehicles or any kind of major furniture or even large scale textiles..

But like was said before.. we have a skilled workforce, we should easily be able to do these things. If we could manage to get in one of the major car companies back into the country it would be great, i know there used to be a ford plant back in the day.. and yes, i know it's very unlikely to happen.. it's just a thought i guess

Our wage costs are too high for these industries, and our population too small. We are not in any way competitive internationally, and there is no point trying to be, we never will be. Manufacturing in the traditional sense will not work for ireland. We cant manufacture vehicles as it would be too expensive to export them, but we can manufacture the essential computer parts for them, the parts that add value. Textiles was doomed a long time ago - look what happened to fruit of the loom. Pharmaceuticals, i.t., finance, computers - these are the way forward!

Ave Sodalis

thetonynator wrote: »

We cant produce anything with out the farm subsidies as food prices are too low. They come from the EU. We cant export to the EU if we're not a memebr - at least not very much. We will have duty put on everything we want to get rid of.

All the big corporations, pharmaceuticals, i.t. companies, dell intel hp etc., they wouldnt be here if we weren't part of the EU.

Also, we couldnt borrow were we not in the EU, the only reason we're going to get bailed out is because they are so worried about their precious currency which we couldn't really give a sh!t about at this stage.

No, we need europe, but the reintroduction of the punt wouldn't be a bad idea as we could control our own finances and devalue our debt.

We shouldn't need to export to the EU very much, if we use what we have here already.

Why not? We have unemployment in these sectors, no? Can we not use those unemployed to start our own businesses, if the others decide to leave?

We shouldn't need to borrow. Learn from our mistakes, borrowing just leads to trouble.

Agreed, we need our own currency! But I don't think we particularly need Europe.

thetonynator

sup_dude wrote: »

We shouldn't need to export to the EU very much, if we use what we have here already.

Why not? We have unemployment in these sectors, no? Can we not use those unemployed to start our own businesses, if the others decide to leave?

We shouldn't need to borrow. Learn from our mistakes, borrowing just leads to trouble.

Agreed, we need our own currency! But I don't think we particularly need Europe.

We are one of the biggest food exporters in the world, we produce enough for a population many times bigger than our own. We cant send it all accross the atlantic - it has to go to europe.

Traditional Manufacturing in ireland will not be profitable even if it is an irish company running it, our wage costs are just too high. We need to focus on highly pad skilled labour - not minimum wage jobs.

We shouldnt need to borrow, but the reality is we are going to need to borrow for at least 10 more years - we just cant make the numbers work otherwise. So for now, yes, we need europe, but no, we dont need their damn currency!!!

Kinetic^

sup_dude wrote: »

But I don't think we particularly need Europe.

Hi Brian!

namloc1980

thetonynator wrote: »

We are one of the biggest food exporters in the world, we produce enough for a population many times bigger than our own. We cant send it all accross the atlantic - it has to go to europe.

Traditional Manufacturing in ireland will not be profitable even if it is an irish company running it, our wage costs are just too high. We need to focus on highly pad skilled labour - not minimum wage jobs.

We shouldnt need to borrow, but the reality is we are going to need to borrow for at least 10 more years - we just cant make the numbers work otherwise. So for now, yes, we need europe, but no, we dont need their damn currency!!!

If we brought in a Punt Nua it would get destroyed on the currency markets given the state of our economy. Until the country is back on it's feet we have no option but stick to the Euro.

Renewable energy is surely something that should be massively exploited here. Our wind and wave resources are limitless but our investment in the area is very limited.

Ave Sodalis

thetonynator wrote: »

We are one of the biggest food exporters in the world, we produce enough for a population many times bigger than our own. We cant send it all accross the atlantic - it has to go to europe.

Traditional Manufacturing in ireland will not be profitable even if it is an irish company running it, our wage costs are just too high. We need to focus on highly pad skilled labour - not minimum wage jobs.

We shouldnt need to borrow, but the reality is we are going to need to borrow for at least 10 more years - we just cant make the numbers work otherwise. So for now, yes, we need europe, but no, we dont need their damn currency!!!

Yes, then export it. It can still go to Europe, I never said it couldn't. There is no difference sending to Europe then 'across the Atlantic' except transport fees.

Wage costs are too high? Is this because production costs are too high? Well then, reduce the cost of materials. Again, use what is in the country first. We can produce metals and fibres for many industries by ourselves.

If we keep borrowing, we will end up with the same problem years down the line.

Ave Sodalis

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Hi Brian!

I'm fairly sure the reasons and the motives behind me saying that and Brian saying that are fairly different. I, for one, wants to help this country more-so then myself. Brian, as it's been proved from his actions, thinks about helping himself over the country.

thetonynator

namloc1980 wrote: »

If we brought in a Punt Nua it would get destroyed on the currency markets given the state of our economy. Until the country is back on it's feet we have no option but stick to the Euro.

Renewable energy is surely something that should be massively exploited here. Our wind and wave resources are limitless but our investment in the area is very limited.

But we want it to be destroyed - it makes our exports beteer, people will only buy irish goods here as they will be cheaper, our mortgages and government debt becomes completely devalued, we control iinterest rates and can print money to devalue the punt whenever we want - its really a win win situation except we have to change currency if we go off to lanzarote for a week!!!

sup_dude wrote: »

Yes, then export it. It can still go to Europe, I never said it couldn't. There is no difference sending to Europe then 'across the Atlantic' except transport fees.

Wage costs are too high? Is this because production costs are too high? Well then, reduce the cost of materials. Again, use what is in the country first. We can produce metals and fibres for many industries by ourselves.

If we keep borrowing, we will end up with the same problem years down the line.

Europe won't take our food if we're not in the EU, in the same way that we dont take everyone elses food unless we really nedd it - and they dont really need it.

Wage costs are too high because the cost of living is too hig. Not materials, although they could come down too.

We have to borrow -for now at least. In 10 years time, hiopefully when can start paying it off.

namloc1980

thetonynator wrote: »

But we want it to be destroyed - it makes our exports beteer, people will only buy irish goods here as they will be cheaper, our mortgages and government debt becomes completely devalued, we control iinterest rates and can print money to devalue the punt whenever we want - its really a win win situation except we have to change currency if we go off to lanzarote for a week!!!

But our sovereign debts would remain in Euro and so we would find it impossible to repay them with a worthless currency - the ECB and other lenders give us money in Euro and they'll want Euro back, not Punts. It also means imports would be incredibly expensive. We cannot produce everything we need on this island. Cars, fuel etc would be unaffordable.

Ave Sodalis

namloc1980 wrote: »

It also means imports would be incredibly expensive. We cannot produce everything we need on this island. Cars, fuel etc would be unaffordable.

Yes, but we will be exporting un-needed items as well = income for imports. Costs of food will be reduced if we produced it in our own country, even in our own gardens. Fuel costs will be reduced if we turn to renewable energy. Yes that would mean spending a little but it can be made up for with the fact we wouldn't have to import fuels.

With this, cost of living will go down, allowing us to afford to produce more here, which was presented as a problem previously.

delonglad

I think investment in renewable energy should be top of our list not carbon taxes and banning hunts(sorry little rant at the greens). We rely to heavily on other countries for our fuel needs.

Here's a crazy idea too,

Why don't we throw a few bob into looking for oil off the west of Ireland, surely there has to be some there?? I know its a gamble but hey we've gambled all of our money away already on far less constructive things.

The only way for this country to grow again is by creating a new economy, our failed economy was all down to the housing boom. We had a small boom in the 90's but the housing boom overshadows and in turn wiped a lot if this out. This new economy would have to be focused around these key areas Pharmaceuticals, i.t., finance, computers, renewable energy.

I'm an educated graduate and i'd happily return home to work for an Irish company with innovative ideas and i'm sure a lot of my colleagues would too!

ei.sdraob

gotBass wrote: »

I believe that we should actually start producing goods rather than re-spinning other countries produce. Otherwise we'll only ever be helping everyone's economy but our own.

Go right ahead open a business (I did) and the comeback to use and tell us how you are getting on

strathspey

sup_dude wrote: »

Close the doors on Europe! Why do we need them for the things we can get here. As the OP and thetonynator already said, we can produce enough here to keep us sustained. Export anything made in excess and import things we cannot make here.

Why do we have Europe anyway? To be part of a something? Well, what we are part of is giving us three weeks to shut down all the welfare systems!

You're quite ignorant of an established facts. Ireland exports more than 80% of what it produces. We need a market for this stuff. That is why we need access to a European market.
I also detect a little bit of finger pointing at Europe for our calamity. Blame your fellow Irishmen. Europe just called a halt to the madness of FF policy. They've just done us a huge service!

Laminations

1. Work on something like the spirit of Ireland - basically strive for energy independence.

2. Make Ireland the world centre for research into neurodegeneration
http://www.ted.com/talks/gregory_petsko_on_the_coming_neurological_epidemic.html

3. Similarly make us a hub for cancer research

4. More controversially, but linked to the above, make us the leading place for conducting full on stem cell research.

5. All of this underpinned by a strong reformed education system.

6. Develop limerick port as a deep sea euro port similar to Rotterdam making us a true gateway to Europe.

7. Make Ireland an appealing place to do business. Maintain low corporate tax, improve infrastructure and broadband, reduce taxes on employment

thetonynator

namloc1980 wrote: »

But our sovereign debts would remain in Euro and so we would find it impossible to repay them with a worthless currency - the ECB and other lenders give us money in Euro and they'll want Euro back, not Punts. It also means imports would be incredibly expensive. We cannot produce everything we need on this island. Cars, fuel etc would be unaffordable.

Our creidtors would have very little choice but to accept out debt in punts, as the exchange rate would be at 1:1 when introduced. Our debt had to be accepted when we changed to the euro and it would now too.

delonglad wrote: »

I think investment in renewable energy should be top of our list not carbon taxes and banning hunts(sorry little rant at the greens). We rely to heavily on other countries for our fuel needs.

Here's a crazy idea too,

Why don't we throw a few bob into looking for oil off the west of Ireland, surely there has to be some there?? I know its a gamble but hey we've gambled all of our money away already on far less constructive things.

The only way for this country to grow again is by creating a new economy, our failed economy was all down to the housing boom. We had a small boom in the 90's but the housing boom overshadows and in turn wiped a lot if this out. This new economy would have to be focused around these key areas Pharmaceuticals, i.t., finance, computers, renewable energy.

I'm an educated graduate and i'd happily return home to work for an Irish company with innovative ideas and i'm sure a lot of my colleagues would too!

We have companies looking for oil for years, they have found some but current oil prices wouldnt justify the extraction of the oil as it wouldn't be profitable.

The real boom ended in 2001, everything after that was just construction. But the result of the original boom is still there, the MNC's havent really left, we still have the educated workforce. We can make it work again.

Laminations wrote: »

1. Work on something like the spirit of Ireland - basically strive for energy independence.

2. Make Ireland the world centre for research into neurodegeneration
http://www.ted.com/talks/gregory_petsko_on_the_coming_neurological_epidemic.html

3. Similarly make us a hub for cancer research

4. More controversially, but linked to the above, make us the leading place for conducting full on stem cell research.

5. All of this underpinned by a strong reformed education system.

6. Develop limerick port as a deep sea euro port similar to Rotterdam making us a true gateway to Europe.

7. Make Ireland an appealing place to do business. Maintain low corporate tax, improve infrastructure and broadband, reduce taxes on employment

Energy independance wont work as oil is still vital to everyhting, neurodegeneration and cancer research is not profitable, nor is stem cell research, we are an island nation so limerick port wouldnt work, as everything would have to go back on another n=boat to get to europe.

Your last point is very good though . . .

Ave Sodalis

strathspey wrote: »

You're quite ignorant of an established facts. Ireland exports more than 80% of what it produces. We need a market for this stuff. That is why we need access to a European market.
I also detect a little bit of finger pointing at Europe for our calamity. Blame your fellow Irishmen. Europe just called a halt to the madness of FF policy. They've just done us a huge service!

Yes, and we then import a lot of what we are exporting. Why do we do this, when we can get it here? Don't say because it is cheaper. We closed the suger factories down and imported sugar. It is still cheaper to produce sugar here.

I am blaming the government for this, not Europe. (However, Europe is telling us to pull the plug on welfares. That's majority of the population severely effected.) But it is the government's fault.

thetonynator

sup_dude wrote: »

Yes, and we then import a lot of what we are exporting. Why do we do this, when we can get it here? Don't say because it is cheaper. We closed the suger factories down and imported sugar. It is still cheaper to produce sugar here.

I am blaming the government for this, not Europe. (However, Europe is telling us to pull the plug on welfares. That's majority of the population severely effected.) But it is the government's fault.

The sugar issue was europes fault, they thought there was a huge surplus, recently they realised they made a mistake with their figures and it didnt need to go at all. 3 years before they realised this everyone else realised they were wrong when we had a world sugar shortage . . .:rolleyes: