Starter car - secondhand Yaris or Starlet? or...?

peckerhead

Help us out here please, lads, I'm in the process of looking around for a reliable first car for DD, around '00/'01, give or take, preferably 1.0l or not too much bigger, 5 doors, and under €2K. The mechanics I've asked all say Toyota Yaris or (shudder...) Nissan Micra. Look darkly at me when I suggest Opel Corsa/Ford Fiesta. Yes, even the 1.25l Zetec.

Pricing stuff on donedeal/carzone/cbg.ie and I see what looks to me like a lot better value in a good ol' '99 Starlet, even if it is a 1.3 engine. She'll be driving up and down from Limerick to Cork in it once a week, and otherwise just pottering around.

What say ye? Is the Yaris a far better engine than the Starlet? What about alternatives? Reliability/comfort/economy are the priorities, not performance. I really don't want to buy her something that leaves her sitting on the side of the road in Buttevant on a dark night (no offense to the good people of Buttevant!)

Discuss.

E39MSport

A maintained starlet will never let you down.

Pre '95 I think were 1 litre. I get 45mpg from my 1.3 and its nippy enough. Excellent car. Can't fault them. Yaris might have more safety features though.

Put decent tyres on those skinny wheels though - especially front.

I've experienced a similar vintage zetec fiesta and there were lots of problems with it in comparison. Stay away from the corsa imo.

There's a few starlets on donedeal. Saw a resprayed one the other day for 900 notes. Can't go wrong.

1.3 Fiesta an option ? The sister's Ka is a 2001 model and has give NO trouble in the 4 or 5 years she has had it. Well heater controller and reversing light switch, can't knock a car for that. What's wrong with a 1.25 Fiesta ?

Max Power1

My first car was/is a 1.3 fiesta. Very reliable, not given an ounce of trouble in the year or so that ive owned it and put up about 11k miles.

Relative to your op, what the hell is a DD (excuse my ignorance of acronyms)

I'm in the process of looking around for a reliable first car for DD

cantdecide

Micra/ Yaris/ Starlet etc etc are city cars. If she's driving that long road from Cork to Limerick then a Golf sized car is the minimum size she should buy IMO (just like 95% of the population of Ireland).

I can assure you that when all is said and done, the saving by dropping from a 1.4 hatch type car to a 1.0 city car is negligable despite all the old clichés and their many proponents. I recommend a Civic or maybe a Mazda 323/f. Maybe a corolla. Don't forget about the 1.3 saloon type cars- Lancers etc

Zubeneschamali

Max Power1 wrote: »

Relative to your op, what the hell is a DD

Drunk Driver? Designated Driver? Duran Duran?

Wait, Darling Daughter?

Max Power1

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Drunk Driver? Designated Driver? Duran Duran?

Wait, Darling Daughter?

Its darling daughter.

Those stupid acronyms p!ss me off so I make a point of questioning them every time they are used. Who actually says "darling daughter" anyway? If its not said normally, then why have an acronym??

cantdecide

Those confusing acronyms really PMO.

E39MSport

Those TLA's PMO

AndrewS

I agree that the Golf size car would be a better bet for a drive between Cork and Limerick on a weekly basis. While theres nothing wrong with the smaller car and they can handle the drives easily, the Golf would be a better choice. But, I wouldnt go for a Civic in this class nor a Lancer. Both tend to attract more in the way of car crime and higher insurance premiums.

Golfs are relatively reliable but do check the electrics. Brake judder is going to be either brake discs or suspension bushings. Both common failures on Mk4 Golf.

If you are set on the smaller cars, please stick to the Yaris. I actually loathe them but they do seem to be reliable, if terribly dull to drive. Ive owned Clios for 9 years and cannot fault them, but a lot of owners seem to ignore the service and maintenance cycles on them, hence the reputation for busting the timing belt. Regardless of make, ANY car once its maintained will last a lifetime. Ive driven a lot of Micras and I would absolutely not recommend them. Either way, whatever you buy, make sure you have someone go over it with a fine toothcomb.

1.4 Golfs are dirt to be honest. I would strongly consider a Hyundai Accent, the ole lad has a 99 one from new, not a bad bus at all. 175 70 13 tyres tidied up the handling and body roll substantially over the factory 155 80 13s. Old Toyota levels of reliability and surprisingly fine to drive. Buy a fresh one and it will last forever really.

fonecrusher1

RoverJames wrote: »

1.3 Fiesta an option ? The sister's Ka is a 2001 model and has give NO trouble in the 4 or 5 years she has had it. Well heater controller and reversing light switch, can't knock a car for that. What's wrong with a 1.25 Fiesta ?

Can't say i would recommend them. My brother had a 1.3 fiesta 4 years ago & it needed several hundred euros worth of repairs on the engine 2 weeks after purchase.

Other brother's girlfriend has a 1.3 Ka & it cuts out on sharp corners & overheated twice last summer. Engine is currently sounding like a bag of spanners according to my brother. It needs a few hundred euros spent on it.

The 1.25 fiesta i have no personal knowledge of so yes i suppose it could be a good car, fair is fair. The 1.3 is a different matter though. I wouldn't touch one.

btw whats this DD talk? That ain't gonna float in motors.

peckerhead

Sorry, yeah, DD = dearest daughter. Let's call her "Princess" instead.

Thanks for all the comments so far, and yes, I do take the point about the benefits of a slightly bigger car. Only thing is — and I should probably have mentioned this, too — she's 21 and on her first provisional, so insurance premiums are a big consideration, especially as I'll probably later want to add her 19-year-old sister to the policy for the purposes of sitting the test (and of course they're now both going to be caught out by the new rules on compulsory basic training ...or should that be CBT?)

Keep 'em coming!

Alanstrainor

peckerhead wrote: »

Sorry, yeah, DD = dearest daughter. Let's call her "Princess" instead.

Thanks for all the comments so far, and yes, I do take the point about the benefits of a slightly bigger car. Only thing is — and I should probably have mentioned this, too — she's 21 and on her first provisional, so insurance premiums are a big consideration, especially as I'll probably later want to add her 19-year-old sister to the policy for the purposes of sitting the test (and of course they're now both going to be caught out by the new rules on compulsory basic training ...or should that be CBT?)

Keep 'em coming!

Provided they both already have their Learner Permits, they won't be affected by the new "CBT"! It's only those who receive their permits after April '11 that will be affected.

fonecrusher1

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Engine is currently sounding like a bag of spanners according to my brother.

Standard feature, it's pushrod
It's overheating no doubt as the fan switch is tossed, common issue and an easy fix. Driving about in an overheating car is sheer neglect really.

peckerhead

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Provided they both already have their Learner Permits, they won't be affected by the new "CBT"! It's only those who receive their permits after April '11 that will be affected.

No, they both got their learner permits only a couple of weeks ago, and you can't apply to sit the test until you've held a learner permit for 6 months, which takes us up to the first week of April. I think they'll have a window of about 2/3 working days, and anyway I suspect no learner drivers will be passing their tests in the lead-up to the April cut-off.

squod

Buy her a focus. If she means that much to you.

Alanstrainor

peckerhead wrote: »

No, they both got their learner permits only a couple of weeks ago, and you can't apply to sit the test until you've held a learner permit for 6 months, which takes us up to the first week of April. I think they'll have a window of about 2/3 working days, and anyway I suspect no learner drivers will be passing their tests in the lead-up to the April cut-off.

You can apply for the test at any time, you can only sit the test after having your permit for 6 months. And either way, the new rules only apply to those whole obtain their first learner permit after April '11.

Here's a link to the RSA site.

We're getting slightly OT here, pop over to Learning to Drive if you have any more questions.

peckerhead

@Squod: She's paying for it herself, actually, she just asked Daddy to find something suitable.
The Focus is a grand car, but I find the 1.4 underpowered. And she can't afford a 2005 car.

@Alanstrainor: Wow, thanks — glad to stand corrected on that one!

Plug

Get a 1.6. Theres not much of a difference insurance wise between 1.4 or 1.6.

fonecrusher1

RoverJames wrote: »

Driving about in an overheating car is sheer neglect really.

Im afraid its a trait of most people who simply don't care about their cars. Happens all the time. Incredibly just yesterday my housemate told me her focus needs several hundred euros worth of repairs. I asked her when she had it last serviced. She said 3 or 4 years, im not sure??.:eek:

I sh!t you not.

In my opinion you can get away with such neglect only on older Jap cars & not actually wreck it. NOT THAT I EVER WOULD!!! I once bought a civic that hadn't had an oil change in 4 years. Needless to say i got the car for buttons. I flushed the engine, changed the oil & filter & the thing was running sweet. Sold it to a mate & its still going strong.;)

peckerhead

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

In my opinion you can get away with such neglect only on older Jap cars.

This is what has me thinking Starlet/Yaris/Micra as opposed to Fords, Fiats or French. I'd be very wary buying an old Clio or Punto with 80K+ on it...

fonecrusher1

peckerhead wrote: »

This is what has me thinking Starlet/Yaris/Micra as opposed to Fords, Fiats or French. I'd be very wary buying an old Clio or Punto with 80K+ on it...

Honestly any car that has been victim to neglect is vulnerable regardless of make. In my personal experience i find older honda's to be just about as safe a bet as your going to get. Late 90's honda's are utterly bulletproof. Maintain regular servicing & they'll last years.

If your daughter is going to be frequently travelling longer distances, i would not recommend a small 1.0 liter car. As someone said, she's better off with 1.3/1.4 size engine.

-Honda civic 1.4 1996 - 2000
-Mazda 323f 1.3 1998 - 2003
-Toyota corolla 1.4 2000 - 2002
-Ford focus 1.4 1999 - 2005
-Mitsubishi charisma 1.3 1995 - 2004

Any of those^ is better than a micra/fiesta/yaris. Ok the tax is a little higher but she'll be happier in the long run.

cantdecide

peckerhead wrote: »

...I do take the point about the benefits of a slightly bigger car. Only thing is she's 21 and on her first provisional, so insurance premiums are a big consideration, especially as I'll probably later want to add her 19-year-old sister to the policy...

Careful careful...

This is exactly one of those clichés I was talking about. If she saves more than a couple of % by having a city car, I'll eat my hat.

Don't assume anything. Verify the realities of each option objectively.

(PS, is a 1.4 Focus more underpowered than 1.0 Yaris? Your answer may not make use of the word 'nippy' or the phrase 'ya, but').

Jimmy Bottlehead

I've a '04 Polo that's a wee cracker for a first car. Loads of room, cheap to insure, can look nice in some colours (well as nice as a Polo can look!), decent interior, and plenty of power for a learner.

bazz26

I'd opt for the Yaris over the Starlet or Micra of that vintage. The Starlet by today's standards doesn't fair well in crash safety tests. Probably more reliable that the Yaris but the Starlet is very light on the road, doesn't have ABS or the same reinforced crumple zones that the more modern Yaris would have.

Wossack

I'd be all over another 1.25 fiesta ghia in an instant - great cars imo

the 1.3 in the Ka is fairly agricultural.. though mightnt be a bad point from a maintenance point of view

peckerhead

cantdecide wrote: »

PS, is a 1.4 Focus more underpowered than 1.0 Yaris? Your answer may not make use of the word 'nippy' or the phrase 'ya, but'.

Yaris only a Ka, at the end of the day!

I'll get my coat...

More seriously, I'll check out what you say about the insurance quotes. The road tax difference is only €120-ish for a 1.3 over a 1.0.

E39MSport

6 months tax on this 1.3 Lancer

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1695641

AndrewS

peckerhead wrote: »

This is what has me thinking Starlet/Yaris/Micra as opposed to Fords, Fiats or French. I'd be very wary buying an old Clio or Punto with 80K+ on it...

To be honest, thats just old reputation and hearsay. As said elsewhere in the thread, ANY car that is not serviced properly and regularly WILL break down. Ive owned and driven French cars for 16 years and have never been dumped in the middle of nowhere. But then, I look after and maintain my cars regardless of cost. Some bits I do myself, or with a mechanic friend such as regular oil changes and brake pads, but I do bring the cars to Renault. As said, Im on my 4th Clio over 9 years and I cannot fault them.

My mechanic friend took a look at a Yaris a while back and found it had never been serviced. The owner was wondering why it conked out in Dunnes car park. The oil had run dry from neglect and the engine siezed.

mgbgt1978

Yaris,Yaris, Yaris every time for a 1 litre car.
Probaly the most reliable 1 litre out there.
Much bigger inside than a micra or starlet.
No timing belt to worry about (micra T.chains get very noisy).

As regards the weekly drive from Limerick to cork. In most other countries that would easily be a daily commute for loads of people.
It seems it's because Ireland is so small that we see any inter-city journey as a long drive.

The missus is driving a 2001 yaris for the past 5 years...tyres and oil changes, nothing else.
Have a '96 micra sitting outside as a runabout/spare car. Highish mileage (128k)...Timing chain rattling its little japanese brains out, lot of rust underneath (spotless elsewhere), can't decide whether to idle too low or rev at 2,500 all day.
Had a starlet before the yaris...couple of small niggles (heater stopped working, etc.). Yaris is generations ahead.

peckerhead

Wossack wrote: »

I'd be all over another 1.25 fiesta ghia in an instant - great cars imo

Funny you should mention that, I've just seen a '99 Fiesta Zetec LX 1.25 with only 35,000 miles (1 old lady owner), chap is asking €1,000. Should I go out there with €850 in my pocket? Otherwise my most likely prospect so far locally is a '97 Micra in horrible metallic turquoise for only €600, but with 120K miles...

[Edit: Actually, turns out HRH likes the turquoise colour... :eek:]

Max Power1

The 1.3 fiesta is quite noisy, after all the engine design does date from the 50s! However from personal experience (many of my extended family members have driven fiestas for years, from mk1-mk5) they are bulletproof reliability wise with little maintenance.


Another reccomendation that i'm surprised hasnt come up yet - the fiat panda? The 1.2 version is surpisingly "nippy"

dgt

peckerhead wrote: »

This is what has me thinking Starlet/Yaris/Micra as opposed to Fords, Fiats or French. I'd be very wary buying an old Clio or Punto with 80K+ on it...

Theres nothing wrong with a Punto with high miles provided you find a decent one, which is near impossible due to the owners neglecting them and wondering why they broke down. We had one from new and ran like a clock with 141k miles untill the day sum idiot crashed into it and wrote it off. Ive seen 1.7 TD mk1 Puntos with well over 250k and in one case with near 310k miles on the clock, sadly crashed too. I would suggest a Punto mk2, prefably the 8v as these are cheap to run, cheap to insure and have very few problems. Micras are ugly in my opinion and a Yaris is a very good starter car, just finding one cheap is the challenge. Fiesta 1.2 zetec is another good little motor but the car itself isnt, ive seen too many with rust

Max Power1

dgt wrote: »

Theres nothing wrong with a Punto with high miles provided you find a decent one, which is near impossible due to the owners neglecting them and wondering why they broke down. We had one from new and ran like a clock with 141k miles untill the day sum idiot crashed into it and wrote it off. Ive seen 1.7 TD mk1 Puntos with well over 250k and in one case with near 310k miles on the clock, sadly crashed too. I would suggest a Punto mk2, prefably the 8v as these are cheap to run, cheap to insure and have very few problems. Micras are ugly in my opinion and a Yaris is a very good starter car, just finding one cheap is the challenge. Fiesta 1.2 zetec is another good little motor but the car itself isnt, ive seen too many with rust

The 8v puntos are a weak car. The engine is prone to many overheating issues (exacerbated by the lack of an engine temperature gauge), including HG failure. If anyone is considering buying an older Punto, for the love of god dont get the 8v, get the 16v, and make sure it has service history.

VolvoMan

I have a Yaris at the moment and besides being a bit dull, I can't fault it really. The only real criticisms I have of it are that it can become quite unstable in crosswinds and has a very short fifth gear (not great for motorway driving). It also had a bit of trouble with the engine idling speed and an engine management light that was showing on the dashboard, which I believe is quite common.

Otherwise I find that it handles well, still looks quite modern today both inside and out and that timing chain is great for peace of mind. It's also really quite spacious, as I am by no means small at 6 foot 3 and still have plenty of knee and headroom.

fonecrusher1

VolvoMan wrote: »

I have a Yaris at the moment and besides being a bit dull, I can't fault it really. The only real criticisms I have of it are that it can become quite unstable in crosswinds and has a very short fifth gear (not great for motorway driving). It also had a bit of trouble with the engine idling speed and an engine management light that was showing on the dashboard, which I believe is quite common.

Otherwise I find that it handles well, still looks quite modern today both inside and out and that timing chain is great for peace of mind. It's also really quite spacious, as I am by no means small at 6 foot 3 and still have plenty of knee and headroom.

I agree with you. I very nearly got one as my first car many years ago. I'd looked at a few 'starter' cars including a horrible micra, a punto, a fiesta & a polo. The little Yaris was most definitely ahead of them all in terms of power, cabin space, refinement, comfort. The one thing i didn't like was the engine noise intrusion at around 60mph. But most small 1.0 ltr cars suffer from this.

I didn't go for one in the end. I was offered a mate's spotless almera for a bargain price & went for it.:pac:

dgt

Max Power1 wrote: »

The 8v puntos are a weak car. The engine is prone to many overheating issues (exacerbated by the lack of an engine temperature gauge), including HG failure. If anyone is considering buying an older Punto, for the love of god dont get the 8v, get the 16v, and make sure it has service history.

And what causes this? Poor maintanance, surprise surprise... People dont change the coolant or if they do use the total wrong coolant, causing the detioration of the gasket. The sx has a temperature guage btw. The 16v is superior in every way but might be a tad bit expensive to insure a 21 year old and 19 year old on as their first car

Sofiztikated

peckerhead wrote: »

Funny you should mention that, I've just seen a '99 Fiesta Zetec LX 1.25 with only 35,000 miles (1 old lady owner), chap is asking €1,000. Should I go out there with €850 in my pocket? Otherwise my most likely prospect so far locally is a '97 Micra in horrible metallic turquoise for only €600, but with 120K miles...

[Edit: Actually, turns out HRH likes the turquoise colour... :eek:]

Try him with the €850, bargain hard. In fact, I'd nearly have that Fezzer meself!

Who the hell is HRH now? Didn't you cause enough confusion in here with DD?

Sleepy

No love for the Polo? A friend got one from her Dad as her first car about 6 years ago, ran without trouble for a good 3 years with no servicing (I tried to tell her, honest). She eventually aqua-planed it into a barrier on the M7, flipping the car 7 times. Walked away without a scratch. Have had a huge amount of respect for those little cars since I saw the car afterwards in the scrap yard. Not a panel undamaged but both passenger suffered nothing more than a bit of a shock. Impressive little tank.

kirving

Sleepy wrote: »

No love for the Polo? A friend got one from her Dad as her first car about 6 years ago, ran without trouble for a good 3 years with no servicing (I tried to tell her, honest). She eventually aqua-planed it into a barrier on the M7, flipping the car 7 times. Walked away without a scratch. Have had a huge amount of respect for those little cars since I saw the car afterwards in the scrap yard. Not a panel undamaged but both passenger suffered nothing more than a bit of a shock. Impressive little tank.

Wow! Bit of luck involved too I'd say! Reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSSWeGBkf9o
(embed not working for some reason, probably my fault!)