UK train overshoots station by more than two miles because of leaves on the tracks

Run_to_da_hills

And we thought the Sligo line was bad.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1330887/Train-slides-speed-TWO-MILES-leaves-line.html

Cookie_Monster

Jasus :eek:

some of the comments are quite good reading.

next time just stick it in reverse :pac:

flyingsnail

The RAIB is caring out an investigation, their reports are quite detailed but usually take a while. You can subscribe to e-mail alerts on the website.

Rail accident investigation branch.

The RAIB is carrying out an investigation into a serious incident involving a passenger train that occurred on the Tonbridge to Hastings line in Sussex.
At around 08:10 hrs on Monday 8 November 2010 the 06:45 hrs train from London Charing Cross to Hastings encountered poor adhesion conditions as its driver applied the brakes to make the scheduled stop at Stonegate station, while travelling at about 65 mph. The train was unable to stop at Stonegate, and came to a stand some 2.45 miles (4 km) beyond the station.

No signals were passed at danger during the incident and a level crossing encountered by the train during the incident operated normally.

The train driver contacted the signaller by radio to report the situation.

The investigation will identify the reasons for the train’s inability to stop normally, and examine the arrangements for the servicing and maintenance of the rail head sanding equipment on the trains used on the Charing Cross – Hastings line, the information provided to the driver, the regime for rail head treatment, and other factors which may have affected the incident.

The RAIB’s investigation is independent of any investigations by the Police and the safety authority.

The RAIB will publish a report, including any recommendations to improve safety, at the conclusion of its investigation. This report will be available on the RAIB website.

Oliver1985

How the hell you slide that far :eek:

KC61

The problem of leaves on railways mulching affects railway companies all over Europe - it is not just an Irish phenomenon and I think while people can moan and groan about it, it is a fact of life, and there is very little that can be done.

It does however appear to be particularly bad this year.

Run_to_da_hills

KC61 wrote: »

The problem of leaves on railways mulching affects railway companies all over Europe - it is not just an Irish phenomenon and I think while people can moan and groan about it, it is a fact of life, and there is very little that can be done.

It does however appear to be particularly bad this year.

Solution is simple: Replace any deciduous trees that are close to the railway lines with coniferous trees.

Thoie

I've never been able to figure out why they don't just put retractable brushes on the trains that would sweep the leaves/muck along. Angle them slightly so the muck falls off to the sides. Sure, the first train would waste some fuel due to the additional friction, but I'm sure the disruptions to timetables and the sanding probably cost them more anyway.

Captain Chaos

Oliver1985 wrote: »

How the hell you slide that far :eek:

Physics.

Get 500 tonnes, get it to 65mph. It has polished steel wheels on smooth metal rails that are practically oiled up. Now see how quick you can stop.

Trains on level rails use relatively little power to maintain their speed due to momentum and lack of contact friction, mainly drag from the air. The heavy use of power is mainly to accelerate and climb steep parts of the network.

Losty Dublin

Thoie wrote: »

I've never been able to figure out why they don't just put retractable brushes on the trains that would sweep the leaves/muck along. Angle them slightly so the muck falls off to the sides. Sure, the first train would waste some fuel due to the additional friction, but I'm sure the disruptions to timetables and the sanding probably cost them more anyway.

Two problems make it impossible; brushing steel rails wears out bristles in no time plus the speed a train moves at means the contact time of the brush is minimal. It's one of those things that's been tried and failed many times over the years.

Run_to_da_hills

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Two problems make it impossible; brushing steel rails wears out bristles in no time plus the speed a train moves at means the contact time of the brush is minimal. It's one of those things that's been tried and failed many times over the years.

Leaves take time to accumulate, surely they can have attachments on one of these slow moving yellow maintenance things that check the tracks. Two passes a day would be sufficient in a bad area.

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Leaves take time to accumulate, surely they can have attachments on one of these slow moving yellow maintenance things that check the tracks. Two passes a day would be sufficient in a bad area.

how many of them would you need in the UK though given the size of the network. Even over here you couldn't cover the entire network twice a day. Its just something that has to be dealt with.

The best way to deal with it is to try and minimise the amount of leaves that get near the track. So hedging or fencing to catch stray leaves and decent management of nearby trees is the most practical and cost efficient way to deal with it.

That or convert the entire network to maglev :pac:

corktina

First , its not leaves it leaf residue mashed up and making an oily film on the railtop. In the UK they regulalrly run "sandite" trains which clean the railhead with a water cannon and apply a sand and gel subatsnce which adheres to the railhead and improves traction/braking.

They USUALLY have it under control there.

(Its a problem brought about by the switch from tread-applied brakes to disc- brakes...)

Losty Dublin

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Leaves take time to accumulate, surely they can have attachments on one of these slow moving yellow maintenance things that check the tracks. Two passes a day would be sufficient in a bad area.

The slow maintenance train that checks the train only travels across the network twice a year to do some technical checks so it's no use on that basis alone. Cookie has it right in saying that management is the best way around it but even with the Sandite trains (They exist here as well) it's an issue.

Jim Martin

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Jasus :eek:

some of the comments are quite good reading.

next time just stick it in reverse :pac:

I'm afraid that wouldn't help very much, all you would succeed in doing is damaging the wheel tyres & rails & electrical traction equipment on the train & not deccelerating the train any more at all!

Heisenberg1

I remember a few years back network rail were trialing a train that was fitted with a laser that would burn the mulch of the railhead was a great idea at the time have a read of this.

http://www.awg-rail.co.uk/downloads/Gripping-Stuff/Grip17.pdf

dowlingm

Do any systems operate magnetism to keep the wheel adhering to the rail during braking?

Run_to_da_hills

dowlingm wrote: »

Do any systems operate magnetism to keep the wheel adhering to the rail during braking?

Yes the Maglev.

drBill

The question just occurred to me: do any trains have ABS?

L1011

drBill wrote: »

The question just occurred to me: do any trains have ABS?

Its been played with on and off, not sure any current trains have it.

There's not as much safety advantage to it as there is for cars, in so far as you are in far less risk of coming off the rails with locked wheels than you are to go off course in a car with locked wheels; but wheels that have been locked and skidded along on on a train need lathe work.

There are wheel slip controllers which would be like ABS that doesn't pulse except when the wheels have already begun locking; again I've no idea how often they're used.

goingnowhere

Every passenger coach, railcar, DART and Luas has wheel slide protection. Its combined with sanding equipment

The linked product is fitted to the DART fleet.

slimjimmc

ABS is designed to maintain steering control under heavy braking to allow a driver to steer his way out of trouble. Although ABS can reduce braking distance on high grip surfaces it does not reduce braking distance on slippery/low grip surfaces, and in fact could significantly increase it. Not much use on a train running on greasy tracks.

Capt'n Midnight

can we get the title changed to 4Km please

corktina

Why? the UK doesnt use Km (and nor does IE if if recall correctly.)

highlydebased

It would also be 3.218km

Capt'n Midnight

Neon-Circles wrote: »

It would also be 3.218km

2.45 miles is 3.94 Km :P

Cookie_Monster

or about 0.71 leagues

Capt'n Midnight

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

or about 0.71 leagues

out of curiosity why would a train use nautical leagues ?

who the fug

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

out of curiosity why would a train use nautical leagues ?

Climate Change

Cookie_Monster

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

out of curiosity why would a train use nautical leagues ?

where did I mention nautical?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_%28unit%29
based on how far you would walk in an hour

corktina

what a waste of humour CM....:rolleyes:

youcancallmeal

I remember reading this article a while about using laser beams to remove the leaves. Sounds like it hasn't been adopted yet?

Capt'n Midnight

or you could retro fit brake pads to the wheels, so you would scrape the residue off the wheels

not sure if the wheels would heat up enough since most of the braking would be done on the axle , but since most UK trains are electric or diesel electric and use regenerative braking they could use heat lamps or resistors to burn off the stuff from breaking energy , whether you heat wheel surface or the tracks is something to try out

Capt'n Midnight

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

where did I mention nautical?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_%28unit%29
based on how far you would walk in an hour

2.54 miles / 0.71 leagues => 3.45 miles per league
There are 1.15 miles in a Nautical mile and so 1.15 leagues in a Nautical league.


though I don't think you'd get quite that far if you spent an hour trying to walk across water

Praetorian

who the fug wrote: »

Climate Change

Comedy genius

Losty Dublin

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

2.54 miles / 0.71 leagues => 3.45 miles per league
There are 1.15 miles in a Nautical mile and so 1.15 leagues in a Nautical league.


though I don't think you'd get quite that far if you spent an hour trying to walk across water

What about if you were traveling on a boat train?

steamengine

Losty Dublin wrote: »

What about if you were traveling on a boat train?

Many a true word is spoken in jest !!! No leaves on the tracks but possibly seaweed !!!- Below Volk's sea going tram in Brighton circa 1900.