Ireland: The crisis, the foreign immigrants and Irish emigrants

GizAGoOfYerGee

Excellent documentary by David McWilliams before Ireland went completly bankrupt that I think everyone should watch. And yes, let's not kid ourselves, we are now bankrupt.

Should Ireland reach out to the Irish diaspora and give passports to those that have strong Irish heritage so that they can come home? We have pretty much ignored them during the boom.

(Sorry for the bad YouTube quality, but it is certainly watchable.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2ppie0IPGw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQLPrfuZEco

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGMEbzjm1fQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyj5r4g1lHk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpVSuPTQLx8

Biggins

The present Irish government wants 100,000 to leave so I don't think they will be creating situations for more to actually return.

Cheap Thrills!

Erm, no. We can't even support the people we have now. And besides I don't want to listen to the smug returned emigrant mantra: 'back in Kansas blah blah blah' :P

starbelgrade

I'm sure David McWilliams has some valid points / arguments.

However, I've never listened to them for more than 5 seconds, as his moany ginger face does my nut in.

policarp

You're in the Iberian Peninsula.
You should know that Spain and Portugal are in just as much of a mess.
Nearly as bad as Greece...

chucken1

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....I cant take it anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

starbelgrade

policarp wrote: »

You're in the Iberian Peninsula.
You should know that Spain and Portugal are in just as much of a mess.
Nearly as bad as Greece...

Either your geography is really bad, or you thought you were posting on El Boards.es

Biggins

chucken1 wrote: »

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....I cant take it anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Try using lubricant. It helps.

Sea Sharp

I got as far as 'Madonna' and 'Shakira' and then decided that this guy is a fool and it's time to go to sleep.

GizAGoOfYerGee

starbelgrade wrote: »

his moany ginger face does my nut in.

Believe me, I used to hate McWilliams. I wanted to punch his face, especially when he was on the TV3 music show.

But he is a good writer, economist and I have grown to like him over the years.

policarp wrote: »

You're in the Iberian Peninsula. You should know that Spain and Portugal are in just as much of a mess.
Nearly as bad as Greece...

Yes, of course I do. Spanish unemployment is at 20%. The situation in my city is dire. Entire city blocks abandonded and fenced off for over two years now.

The unfinished Anglo Irish bank in the Docklands is nothing compared to what you see in Spain.

policarp

starbelgrade wrote: »

Either your geography is really bad, or you thought you were posting on El Boards.es

See location under OP's username...

policarp

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

Yes, of course I do. Spanish unemployment is at 20%. The situation in my city is dire. Entire city blocks abandonded and fenced off for over two years now.

The unfinished Anglo Irish bank in the Docklands is nothing compared to what you see in Spain.

That's right. The Spanish political system is just as corrupt as the Irish one, if not more. I was there a few weeks ago and the local news papers had practically no news, other than Mayors and officials being brought to account over corruption and misapropriation of public funds.
At least they are doing something about corruption...

General General

I read the book... he states that our banking/financial sector & accountancy expertise are part of what makes us world class.

Cheap Thrills!

General General wrote: »

I read the book... he states that our banking/financial sector & accountancy expertise are part of what makes us world class.

Read them all too.

Think I saw that Documentary, he was on about the Diaspora and getting them all back and creating a 'knowledge economy' based on research/innovatiion/discovery etc

I dunno. Sounds a bit airy-fairy these days. Unless we discover something really good....like the elixir of eternal youth or fatless burritos or something equally important.

GizAGoOfYerGee

policarp wrote: »

The Spanish political system is just as corrupt as the Irish one, if not more.

You have got to be kidding me.

Ireland has been one of the most corrupt countries in the EU with its State tribunals, investigations and media revelations, still going on in Ireland TODAY.

You are sorely misinformed if you believe that Spain is more corrupt than Ireland. Yes, there have been some recent revelations in Spain, but nothing compared to Ireland's rotten history of theft from the people by Irish politicians.

minister poxbottle

chucken1 wrote: »

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....I cant take it anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Swallow

bob the bob

As Europeans, Irish people are extraordinarily free to roam the planet as they wish.
So some of them feck off, and some foreigners come in. What's the problem?

Unless you think Irish > Foreigner, what's the big deal?

Didn't watch the vids btw but the thread title inflamed me.

Inverse to the power of one!

His predictions of Bono having to bail us out just never became true tho.....

enda1

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

You have got to be kidding me.

Ireland has been one of the most corrupt countries in the EU with its State tribunals, investigations and media revelations, still going on in Ireland TODAY.

You are sorely misinformed if you believe that Spain is more corrupt than Ireland. Yes, there have been some recent revelations in Spain, but nothing compared to Ireland's rotten history of theft from the people by Irish politicians.

Actually Ireland is generally regarded as having a very low level of corruption. We are in fact #14 in this respect, far ahead of Spain (#30).

One of the reasons for this low level is our stance on corruption - it is actually tackled via tribunals, investigations, media revelations etc.

Saadyst

enda1 wrote: »

Actually Ireland is generally regarded as having a very low level of corruption. We are in fact #14 in this respect, far ahead of Spain (#30).

One of the reasons for this low level is our stance on corruption - it is actually tackled via tribunals, investigations, media revelations etc.

Well aren't we so lucky :rolleyes:

Do you think the investigation / tribunals on Bertie or the economic collapse will yield anything in the next 5-10 years?

enda1

Saadyst wrote: »

Well aren't we so lucky :rolleyes:

Do you think the investigation / tribunals on Bertie or the economic collapse will yield anything in the next 5-10 years?

Yes.

Why does hearsay for you hold a heavier weight than fact?
Do you just like to think we have a bigger problem in this area than we do or is it shear ignorance of the facts?

Saadyst

enda1 wrote: »

Yes.

Why does hearsay for you hold a heavier weight than fact?
Do you just like to think we have a bigger problem in this area than we do or is it shear ignorance of the facts?

It's not hearsay - you can see how morally bankrupt the leaders of this country are, plain as day. Some break the law, most don't. Doesn't make their behaviour ethical.

It's legally fine for them to use every cent of expense they are entitled to. Use the government jet to fly a few hours to Derry, and have their drivers follow them in the car. To introduce tax/levy on all public sector works and quietly rescind it for the highest paid group a few weeks later.

Things like this I would call corruption. I'm sure that study you are quoting doesn't and probably can't account for that. It probably just goes by what is legal and what isn't.

But you just need to see how much they rip the píss out of the people in Ireland to see how corrupt they are.

Shenshen

General General wrote: »

I read the book... he states that our banking/financial sector & accountancy expertise are part of what makes us world class.

I spoke to an Irish accountant yesterday and had to explain to him that 10-5=5... took him 10 minutes at least to grasp this.

Forgive my doubts about that expertise in light of my personal experiences.

enda1

Saadyst wrote: »

It's not hearsay - you can see how morally bankrupt the leaders of this country are, plain as day. Some break the law, most don't. Doesn't make their behaviour ethical.

Moral bankruptcy and what you perceive as ethical, and corruption, are not the same thing.
Again you are quoting hearsay rather than anything factual.

Saadyst wrote: »

It's legally fine for them to use every cent of expense they are entitled to. Use the government jet to fly a few hours to Derry, and have their drivers follow them in the car. To introduce tax/levy on all public sector works and quietly rescind it for the highest paid group a few weeks later.

Things like this I would call corruption. I'm sure that study you are quoting doesn't and probably can't account for that. It probably just goes by what is legal and what isn't.

But you just need to see how much they rip the píss out of the people in Ireland to see how corrupt they are.

The study I "quoted" is a fairly popular and well know index produced annually called the Corruption Perception Index.

It takes into account far more than just what is actually prosecuted and includes perception of the size and nature of corruption in society as implied by its name.

In summary you have such strong feeling about Ireland in this case because: - we are currently going through such a crisis
- you are personally affected by decisions made by politicians here
- Ireland is a small gossipy country which lives and breathes on hearsay and rumours
- You know far more about Ireland than about Spain
- We have had much success in recent years in uncovering past and present corruptions which has brought the subject into the limelight.

Saadyst

enda1 wrote: »

Moral bankruptcy and what you perceive as ethical, and corruption, are not the same thing.
Again you are quoting hearsay rather than anything factual.



The study I "quoted" is a fairly popular and well know index produced annually called the Corruption Perception Index.

It takes into account far more than just what is actually prosecuted and includes perception of the size and nature of corruption in society as implied by its name.

In summary you have such strong feeling about Ireland in this case because: - we are currently going through such a crisis
- you are personally affected by decisions made by politicians here
- Ireland is a small gossipy country which lives and breathes on hearsay and rumours
- You know far more about Ireland than about Spain
- We have had much success in recent years in uncovering past and present corruptions which has brought the subject into the limelight.

I was spending some time to respond to this, but I just don't feel it's worth it.

Suffice it to say, on paper, and on the internet, you can be right. However I believe in the real world, stating that Ireland figures at a good position on the corruption index is just crazy.

But thanks for telling me why I feel the way I do. :rolleyes:

thebigbiffo

c'mon lads, ireland's not corrupt...we just like looking after our friends...whats wrong with that?:cool: