DVBT - - RTE radio, no TV?

gleep

Complete newbie here looking for quick advice.

I've just set up a DVBT tv I've had (unused ) for ages after reading about RTE freeview.

I've never been able to get an analogue signal in the house, I'm using an indoor aerial. The TV autotuned RTE radio stations, but no TV channels.

Is this normal? I need to cut costs and get rid rid of pay tv! Any help much appreciated!

The Cush

I'm guessing you have audio on the TV channels.

If so your TV isn't compatible. TV with MPEG-4 video decoder required for the Irish DTT service, yours probably only has an MPEG-2 video decoder.

You will require a compatible STB to work with that TV.

scath

gleep wrote: »

Complete newbie here looking for quick advice.

I've just set up a DVBT tv I've had (unused ) for ages after reading about RTE freeview.

I've never been able to get an analogue signal in the house, I'm using an indoor aerial. The TV autotuned RTE radio stations, but no TV channels.

Is this normal? I need to cut costs and get rid rid of pay tv! Any help much appreciated!

Sounds like you setup a Freeview TV. no TV channels but audio of Tv channels? Sounds like you have the old Freeview Digital. But RTÉ uses newer video software than Freeview so your TV even though digital can't understand it.

You'll need to buy a Saorview set top box to receive the TV channels.. dealt with in other thread..worth looking around before new thread.

gleep

Thanks for the replies lads. Ftr, the tv didnt pick up any tv stations, not even picture, just radio. Seems it isnt mpeg4! I did look around before stating thread, didnt find anything on radio but no tv!

Silver lining though, tried my big tv in living room, works a treat! I've never been able to get analogue here, this really good news!

Thanks!

The Cush

gleep wrote: »

Thanks for the replies lads. Ftr, the tv didnt pick up any tv stations, not even picture, just radio. Seems it isnt mpeg4! I did look around before stating thread, didnt find anything on radio but no tv!

Silver lining though, tried my big tv in living room, works a treat! I've never been able to get analogue here, this really good news!

Thanks!

Odd that it doesn't pick up the audio for the TV channels, how many radio channels does it receive?

Could be an audio setting that has to be adjusted, someone posted here earlier no audio on the TV channels (with pictures though) and radio audio OK. An adjustment in the menu restored audio (and before you ask no such tweak available for video ).

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

Odd that it doesn't pick up the audio for the TV channels, how many radio channels does it receive?

That's what the 0x16 flag is there for, MPEG-2 sets will refuse to tune them at all once this flag is set.

The Cush

Karsini wrote: »

That's what the 0x16 flag is there for, MPEG-2 sets will refuse to tune them at all once this flag is set.

OK, Panasonic TV maybe??. Didn't think that flag referred to the MPEG audio also.

This from the Nordig receiver spec

The service types ‘Advanced codec based Radio service’ (0x0A), ‘advanced codec based SDTV service’
(0x16) and ‘advanced codec based HDTV service’ (0x19) will only be used for services only including
advanced codec streams (MPEG4 AVC, HE.AAC, E-AC3, i.e. these service types will not include any
MPEG-2 video nor any MPEG1 L.II audio).

That's interesting, from reading that I'd be of the assumption that 0x16 and 0x19 should only be used on H.264/HE-AAC services and not H.264/MPEG (since the latter doesn't "only include advanced codec streams" as per the spec).

The channel as a whole is defined rather than its component streams so a channel defined with the 0x16 or 0x0A flag should be ignored by MPEG-2 receivers which only expect 0x01 or 0x02. The problem with the Panasonics is that they ignore this flag even though they are capable of decoding the stream.

The Cush

@gleep

What is the make of the TV that's not receiving the DTT/Saorview TV channels?

watty

I suspect the only reason that RTE NL isn't using HE-AAC aka AAC+ (which saves about 50% bit rate for same quality as MP2) on ALL the audio streams is that they don't have the encoders setup yet? It's a mandatory part of the minimum spec, not just for multichannel sound Films.

Given they are so short of capacity. I expect by mid 2011 all the audio will be AAC.

if we ignore secondary mono audio of 96kbps. there are supposed to be 17 audio tracks at cbr 128k, that's over 2Mbps. Though at the minute the "dab" stations appear to be 96kbps (Mono MP2? or AAC already?)

So using AAC can either boost quality to be same as 256k MP2, or it can save slightly over 1Mbps. Across two PSB mux that adds up to nearly the space for another SD channel.

The Cush

watty wrote: »

Given they are so short of capacity.

They have a whole multiplex spare with the current one carrying the current and planned channels.

STB

watty wrote: »

I suspect the only reason that RTE NL isn't using HE-AAC aka AAC+ (which saves about 50% bit rate for same quality as MP2) on ALL the audio streams is that they don't have the encoders setup yet? It's a mandatory part of the minimum spec, not just for multichannel sound Films.

Given they are so short of capacity. I expect by mid 2011 all the audio will be AAC.

if we ignore secondary mono audio of 96kbps. there are supposed to be 17 audio tracks at cbr 128k, that's over 2Mbps. Though at the minute the "dab" stations appear to be 96kbps (Mono MP2? or AAC already?)

So using AAC can either boost quality to be same as 256k MP2, or it can save slightly over 1Mbps. Across two PSB mux that adds up to nearly the space for another SD channel.

Their audio streams are 192kbps+ via MPEG2 for the TV Stations. They are 128kbps+ on the radio channels again MPEG2. I say + because the rates are variable in both cases. Its a statmux so whilst the picture posted below looks bad I am sure its doing its job properly. Its tight though if you consider what RTE NL plan to do. At present that HD channel looks like its pulversing everything else on the mux. The second mux will alleviate all this of course should it come on.

tlaavtech's post per 17th.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69071481&postcount=2

STB

Karsini wrote: »

That's interesting, from reading that I'd be of the assumption that 0x16 and 0x19 should only be used on H.264/HE-AAC services and not H.264/MPEG (since the latter doesn't "only include advanced codec streams" as per the spec).

The channel as a whole is defined rather than its component streams so a channel defined with the 0x16 or 0x0A flag should be ignored by MPEG-2 receivers which only expect 0x01 or 0x02. The problem with the Panasonics is that they ignore this flag even though they are capable of decoding the stream.

No. MPEG4 AVC, HE.AAC, E-AC3, i.e. these service types will not include any MPEG-2 video nor any MPEG1 L.II audio.

Badly written again! One refers to video - the other is for radio services. The TV MPEG4 and the radio services are MPEG2 and flagged correctly at present.

0x01 is reserved for MPEG2 Tv services only. ETSI standards are very clear on this. Whilst there is a cop out for simulcast/promotional use during transitional it does not effect us. We dont have a legacy MPEG2 service.

The idea is to keep IDTVs with Freeview tuners within their capabilities.

It wouldnt be the first time a Nordig document had a glaring error though. Just look at the latest Nordig version and their manadatory direction about CI+!

Panasonics problems with the HD Combo TVs that included dvb-t tuner was that they did not define 0x16 nor 0x19 in the firmware for dvb-t i.e. the flags set by RTE NL - Panasonic maintain that they stuck rigidly to UK Dbook.

watty

The Cush wrote: »

They have a whole multiplex spare with the current one carrying the current and planned channels.

I'm thinking of some mysterious future where there is Film Channel, Oireachtas channel added too. Also RTE1, RTE2, TV3, TG4 and ideally Film channel are all HD.

It doesn't look to be happening for some years, but up till July 2010 or so you'd have thought BAI and Comreg assumed no HD ever.

Even in 2006 surely anyone with foresight would know that HD would be inevitable with in 10 years for all the main Terrestrial Channels? But you see the real reason the Government launched the 2006 "so called trial" and insisted RTE NL roll out a network (without a cent investment) is they dream of making €500 Million selling TV spectrum.

Do you think otherwise they would give a fig about EU ASO 2012, which has no legal enforcement? This is a country in contravention of EU Sewerage/Water stuff that DID have legal standing, for 12 years!

That when ordered to set a minimum speed for universal Dialup Internet, set it to 0K. That is spending EU Broadband money on subsidising a Mobile Phone rollout that can't ever deliver Broadband.
Don't even think about their friends the Bankers and Developers.

The Cush

watty wrote: »

Do you think otherwise they would give a fig about EU ASO 2012, which has no legal enforcement?

Mandate on the way, digital dividend band to be cleared by 1st Jan 2013. In exceptional circumstances extended to 2015.

watty

Yes. it's the "Digital Dividend" driving the process here in Ireland, not the giving of Digital TV per se.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

Yes. it's the "Digital Dividend" driving the process here in Ireland, not the giving of Digital TV per se.

Not entirely, digital transmission is cheaper and more reliable. Analogue TV transmitters are end of life and no longer manufactured. One digital mux costs as much to run as one analogue channel, and we have 6 channels on that mux.

watty

All that is true, except about the transmitters. A transmitter for DTT works for Analogue.

But none of that is the "driving factor" for DCNER or Government generally. RTE has wanted to roll out DTT for over 10 years. Government wouldn't let them.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

All that is true, except about the transmitters. A transmitter for DTT works for Analogue.

That is semantics. The transmitter is class D which is digital, but would work with analogue as well. The load is swithed on or off. In Class A through to C the loads are analogue, but not in D.

.E_C_K_S.

Hi sorry for cross posting but I'm sure this would not need a new thread.
If I can receive rte1,2 tv3, tg4, 3e now does this mean my tv has that mpeg4 decoder yoke or will I be looking for a new tv soon?

WALSHY16291

WALSHY16291 wrote: »

Hi sorry for cross posting but I'm sure this would not need a new thread.
If I can receive rte1,2 tv3, tg4, 3e now does this mean my tv has that mpeg4 decoder yoke or will I be looking for a new tv soon?

You're probably ok. The only issue is if the sound codec changes to HE-AAC, which is defined in the spec, if your TV doesn't support that then you'll have no sound. Nobody knows for sure if this will be done but as it is defined in the spec it may at some stage.