Best and worst religion?

biko

I don't think it's a secret that I'm a fervent atheist and enjoy the odd religious discussion, mostly in AH, but for this I think may A&A is better. Hope that's ok, otherwise bounce over to AH.

For a lark I googled "best and worst religion" the first hit was this ("Why Islam is the BEST religion and Hinduism is the WORST religion") which was quite surprising as I would have suggested the opposite. A measure in my opinion of how great a religion is, is how free followers are to criticise their religion and also how free they are to leave that religion if they so choose.

Islam would fail miserably on both accounts. Islamists are pressuring UN to make it illegal to criticise Islam and as you probably know apostasy is punishable by death.
Doesn't sound like the best religion in my book.
On the other hand Hinduism while not open to new ideas doesn't throw people in jail for criticising it and you are free to leave if you don't like it.
That sound like a good religion in my book.
Same goes for Buddism and Shintoism but then neither is a Abrahamic religion.

Anyway, I'm rambling. So fellow atheists the question is:
As an atheist what religions do you think are the worst and best?

I guess you can say best as in "I wouldn't mind living in a community that was 99.9% [this religion]"

Turtwig

Best : Atheism.
Worst : Agnosticism.

robindch

biko wrote: »

As an atheist what religions do you think are the worst and best? I guess you can say best as in "I wouldn't mind living in a community that was 99.9% [this religion]"

Best - atheism (though it's not a religion). If that's not allowed, then I'll go for Christchurch-Dublin style protestantism, since they seem a thoroughly decent lot up there and their music is great.

Worst - just about anything else. But certain christian outfits (Branch Davidians, Fred Phelps, Jim Jone's People's Temple etc), mormon fundamentalists, islamic fundamentalists, Aum Shinrikyo, scientology are all massively odious organizations.

proon4

Best.... Kindness..and everybody can join it at any time and any place

worst... Islam.... by a mile. it wants to force people to worship and obey it

Goduznt Xzst

Best - Zen Buddhism. It's always appealed to me. I've only read about it partially so please correct me if it has some wacko doctrines that I don't know about, but, on the surface it seems more like a way of life than the crutch that most religions are.

Worst - It's hard to pick a worst. Most of the big Religions have been pretty heinous at some point in their history so it's hard to pick one based on what they are like currently. The Westboro Baptist Church comes to mind, but it is so openly awful that it is almost acting as a tool to turn people away from organized religion. No, I'd say to be the worst it would have to more insidious than that.

I guess I'll go with the religion I had to learn the most about due to my cousin being brought up as a member of it: Jehovahs Witnesses.

They are as anti-homosexual as the WBC, evolution deniers, reject blood transfusions to the point of killing their children, will push their children away from higher education. If their children get baptized into the religion then leave they will "disfellowship" them, to the point of breaking off all communication with them.

My cousin got "disfellowshiped" and his parents and siblings and any of his JW friends have completely broken off communication with him, on orders from their priests known as "Elders". What makes them so insidious is that you will not hear about any of these requirements to be a member of their religion when they knock on your door. They will horse feed you their doctrines that they believe are better than Catholicism, without mentioning any of their beliefs that make it so much worse.

D4RK ONION

If someone told me I had to 100% hold a religion, I'd go with Buddhism. No doubt there. It's a philosophical outlook on life as much as it is a religion, and Buddha wasn't a guy walking around saying he was God or amazing, he was just a wise old man with a lot of wise old things to say. I respect that, and some of the stuff I've read is really insightful.

I suppose for worst, there's a few I could pick, but islam extremists who take the koran and manipulate it to their own whims are pretty disgraceful to their creed. I have no problem with islam per se.

(as an aside, the Catholic church owning most of the places I could choose to work in this country is pretty annoying >_<)

ShooterSF

Best - Ninja Pirates of Pastafarianism

Worst - Reformed Pastafarians

Splitters!! :mad:

Zillah

Jains > X > Islam

Where "x" is all other religions.

sink

Obviously this is entirely subjective but from what I have learned of the many different religions around the world.

Best:- Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
Worst:- Wahhabi Islam

Quakerism is possibly the most liberal religion I know of, it allows you the freedom to form your own beliefs including non-theism. You don't need to even believe god truly exists to be a quaker.

In contrast Wahhabism is about the most stringent religion I can think of. No room for dissenters, the punishment for which is often death by particularly barbaric means. Non believers are looked down upon with disdain. It explicitly aims to convert every last person on the planet by force if necessary.

hiorta

Best: None
Worst: All

Any decent religion will not try to persuade or coerce you into giving them money, following their disguised rules, or adhering to something they cannot prove.

SamHarris

Zillah wrote: »

Jains > X > Islam

Where "x" is all other religions.

Second.

My criteria would be the centrality of non-violence (at least it will not do harm that way) and its tolerance of other beliefs, or non-beliefs.

Like every idea religions run the gambit from extremly dangerous to almost harmless. Some clearly contribute greatly to increasing violence, xenophobia and retarding scientific advancement. Others less so.

As my namesake said "Where are the Buddhist suicide bombers?"

As an aside, if my criteria were, say, the amount of people who die each year as a direct consequence of their teachings (incredibly hard thing to judge) you might have to go with the Catholic Church. How many lives would be saved by a simple renunciation of their stance on condoms? 3 million die a year in agony because of this. If there was any other kind of organisation (other than religious) who were pushing ideas which helped perpetuate this they would be (rightly) torn to pieces, and probably made illegal.

pH

SamHarris wrote: »

As my namesake said "Where are the Buddhist suicide bombers?

http://atheism.about.com/b/2010/01/25/religion-violence-recognizing-violence-in-buddhist-history.htm

http://atheism.about.com/od/bookreviews/fr/ZenAtWar.htm

Dades

Best: The one my parents are.

Worst: Whatever those dark fellas are that Jack Bauer is always trying to save the world from.

/reason

Zillah

Dades wrote: »

Best: The one my parents are.

Worst: Whatever those dark fellas are that Jack Bauer is always trying to save the world from.

/reason

Or perhaps slightly more succinctly:

Best: Us
Worst: Them

SamHarris

pH wrote: »

http://atheism.about.com/b/2010/01/25/religion-violence-recognizing-violence-in-buddhist-history.htm

http://atheism.about.com/od/bookreviews/fr/ZenAtWar.htm

Obviously you have some examples (the kamikazees were motivated in part by their religion), but nowhere near the quantity or concentration of those in Islam.

Some ideas are more amenable than others to be bent towards violence. For example the Jains hold non violence as THE central tenant of their faith.

It would be as impossible for an extremest Jain to commit a terrorist attack (And still be a Jain in any reasonable sense) as it would be for a Christian or Muslim to bend their religion untill its polytheistic, and still be considered either a Christian or Muslim.

D4RK ONION

D4RK ONION wrote: »

If someone told me I had to 100% hold a religion, I'd go with Buddhism. No doubt there. It's a philosophical outlook on life as much as it is a religion, and Buddha wasn't a guy walking around saying he was God or amazing, he was just a wise old man with a lot of wise old things to say. I respect that, and some of the stuff I've read is really insightful.

I suppose for worst, there's a few I could pick, but islam extremists who take the koran and manipulate it to their own whims are pretty disgraceful to their creed. I have no problem with islam per se.

(as an aside, the Catholic church owning most of the places I could choose to work in this country is pretty annoying >_<)

Unfortunately any religion can be twisted
It's interesting that zen link above as well, I remember watching a documentary on Tenzin Palmo. She was speaking at one point about a number of the male monks and how they twisted some general texts to be anti-woman.
Regional influence really has a lot of effect on any religion.

nozzferrahhtoo

Best: Personal faith of any type.
Worst: Faith that just doesnt stop there.

Des Carter

BEST: Prince Philip Movement

The Prince Philip Movement is a cargo cult of the Yaohnanen tribe on the southern island of Tanna in Vanuatu. The Yaohnanen believe that Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, the consort to Queen Elizabeth II, is a divine being, the pale-skinned son of a mountain spirit and brother of John Frum. According to ancient tales the son travelled over the seas to a distant land, married a powerful lady and would in time return. The villagers had observed the respect accorded to Queen Elizabeth II by colonial officials and came to the conclusion that her husband, Prince Philip, must be the son from their legends. When the cult formed is unclear, but it is likely that it was sometime in the 1950s or 1960s. Their beliefs were strengthened by the royal couple’s official visit to Vanuatu in 1974 when a few villagers had the opportunity to observe the prince from afar. Prince Philip was made aware of the religion and has exchanged gifts with its leaders and even visited them.

WORST: Universe People

Universe people or Cosmic people of light powers (Czech: Vesmírní lidé sil světla) is a Czech religious movement centered around Ivo A. Benda. Its belief system is based upon the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations communicating with Benda and other “contacters” since October 1997 telepathically and later even by direct personal contact. According to Benda those civilizations operate a fleet of spaceships, led by Ashtar Sheran, orbiting the Earth. They closely watch and help the good and are waiting to transport their followers into another dimension. The Universe People’s teachings incorporate various elements from ufology (some foreign “contacters” are credited, though often also renounced after a time as misguided or deceptive), Christianity (Jesus was a “fine-vibrations” being) and conspiracy theories (forces of evil are supposed to plan compulsory chipping of the population).

ShooterSF

I dunno I kind of like the sci-fi religions. Guess it's why I was always more Star Wars than Lord of the Rings...

Coriolanus

I'm going to go with Jainism and Judaism. Jainism, not because I aspire to their ideals, but if you're going to beleive in fairy tales it might as well be a fairy tale that prohibits all violence. Judaism because it's the twisted stepfather of two evil misbegotten bastard offspring.

How do you measure how good a religion is? By how true it is.

By that criterion, here are the results:

Best religion: None.
Worst religion: All.

sponsoredwalk

Obviously evolution & atheism (is there a difference?) are the worst religions.

(Evolatheism?) (Avolutionism??) (Evilutiesm!!!)

ChocolateSauce

Worst: Islam
Best: .....pantheism? Does that even count?

I notice some people say it's hard to choose a worst. Really? Islam by a light year. I really don't see any other contender for last place.

goose2005

Worst: Islam by a long shot.

Pygmalion

If I had to pick a "best" I'd say Buddhism, but after reading a bit about it a while ago I came out of it with a much lower opinion of it than I'd originally had.
The "core" beliefs (if you could call them that) seem fairly reasonable, more about a way of living and trying to understand yourself better than actual belief in a lot of ways; the Buddhist "sects" seem to take that message and add a ton of supernatural crap, and their own prejudices and nonsensical practices.

Worst, at the moment I'd say Islam, but tbh, I imagine if it was Christian fundamentalists who got into power in some of those middle-eastern countries things wouldn't be much different.
If you look at the extreme nutjobs in America you really can't see more than a superficial difference, they just luckily don't have nearly as much power.

goose2005

Pygmalion wrote: »

If I had to pick a "best" I'd say Buddhism, but after reading a bit about it a while ago I came out of it with a much lower opinion of it than I'd originally had.
The "core" beliefs (if you could call them that) seem fairly reasonable, more about a way of living and trying to understand yourself better than actual belief in a lot of ways; the Buddhist "sects" seem to take that message and add a ton of supernatural crap, and their own prejudices and nonsensical practices.

Worst, at the moment I'd say Islam, but tbh, I imagine if it was Christian fundamentalists who got into power in some of those middle-eastern countries things wouldn't be much different.
If you look at the extreme nutjobs in America you really can't see more than a superficial difference, they just luckily don't have nearly as much power.

But that's not really Christianity. Whereas the violent and oppressive Muslims are the closest to Muhammad's message, which was one of cruelty and intolerance, in which he wrote the laws to suit himself and his own desires.

Pygmalion

goose2005 wrote: »

But that's not really Christianity. Whereas the violent and oppressive Muslims are the closest to Muhammad's message, which was one of cruelty and intolerance, in which he wrote the laws to suit himself and his own desires.

There's quote a lot in the Qur'an about generosity towards the poor, tolerance, forgiveness etc.
There's also a lot about killing non-believers, keeping slaves and owning woman.

I don't see how it's any different to the bible in that respect.

In fact, one could even dig up a few quotes that directly state that people of other faiths are welcomed by God, which you won't find in the bible.
This was the first I found.
Surah 2:62 - “Verily, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians – all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds – shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve.”

Obviously there's some horrendous ones too, but as I said, I don't see how it's any different to the bible.

Also I did some reading up on it a while ago (can't remember what got me interested), it's amazing how much of modern practice is completely and unambiguously against what Muhammad thought.
Main example that sticks in my mind is the stories recently of women being murdered for being rape victims, when in fact Sunni law specifically states that the woman is never to blame in rape cases (apparently based on a judgement Muhammad himself gave at a trial).

Not defending the religion obviously, since I said earlier it's probably the worst of all, and there's very much a message of war in the Qur'an from what i've seen, but a large part of it is the fundamentalists perverting (or just ignoring) the original message to suit themselves.

tl;dr: It's as much Islam as the Christian fundamentalist message is Christian in many ways.

Cavehill Red

Best religion: Mine
Worst religion: Yours


Isn't that how it works?

strobe

Best: The type you keep to yourself, cause God baby doesn't need any help.

Worst: The type where God baby wants his chosen people to kill, main or bully the other people into believing in him, cause he doesn't need you to. But he would really really prefer if you did it for him. "Cheers, God baby".

strobe

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Best religion: Mine
Worst religion: Yours


Isn't that how it works?

That's maybe how it works.....are you one of US or one of THEM?

eoin5

The Aztecs had it pretty wrong.

I like the Bali croud.

Stercus Accidit

Zillah wrote: »

Or perhaps slightly more succinctly:

Best: Us
Worst: Them

Thats a very religious outlook

recedite

robindch wrote: »

Best - atheism (though it's not a religion). If that's not allowed, then I'll go for Christchurch-Dublin style protestantism, since they seem a thoroughly decent lot up there and their music is great.

Not as great as Bob Marley though .....

Best; Rastafarianism (reggae and hash cookies)

Worst; Rastafarianism (if you are going to worship someone, why pick a recently deceased third world monarch who had his butt kicked, by the Italians of all people)* :mad:

*Edit; OK, so it happened to the King of the Jews too. $hit happens. But at least He had cool powers (walking on water, regeneration).

iguana

Best: Neopaganism
Worst: Anything with the word "fundamentalist" in it's name.

goose2005

Pygmalion wrote: »

There's quote a lot in the Qur'an about generosity towards the poor, tolerance, forgiveness etc.
There's also a lot about killing non-believers, keeping slaves and owning woman.

I don't see how it's any different to the bible in that respect.

In fact, one could even dig up a few quotes that directly state that people of other faiths are welcomed by God, which you won't find in the bible.
This was the first I found.
Surah 2:62 - “Verily, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians – all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds – shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve.”

Obviously there's some horrendous ones too, but as I said, I don't see how it's any different to the bible.

Also I did some reading up on it a while ago (can't remember what got me interested), it's amazing how much of modern practice is completely and unambiguously against what Muhammad thought.
Main example that sticks in my mind is the stories recently of women being murdered for being rape victims, when in fact Sunni law specifically states that the woman is never to blame in rape cases (apparently based on a judgement Muhammad himself gave at a trial).

Not defending the religion obviously, since I said earlier it's probably the worst of all, and there's very much a message of war in the Qur'an from what i've seen, but a large part of it is the fundamentalists perverting (or just ignoring) the original message to suit themselves.

tl;dr: It's as much Islam as the Christian fundamentalist message is Christian in many ways.

The tolerant surahs were all written (sorry, "revealed by Gabriel":rolleyes:) when Islam was a tiny religion with a few dozen adherents.

Obviously there's some horrendous ones too, but as I said, I don't see how it's any different to the bible.

The intolerant bits of the Bible are from the earlier parts and all relate to specific peoples at specific times, in comparison to the Quranic attacks on all Kufr.

Not defending the religion obviously, since I said earlier it's probably the worst of all, and there's very much a message of war in the Qur'an from what i've seen, but a large part of it is the fundamentalists perverting (or just ignoring) the original message to suit themselves.

It really isn't. Muhammad's original message was to kill and steal as much as possible in order to gain as much power as possible. He was basically Al Capone. Read the Sunnah.

strobe

goose2005 wrote: »

The tolerant surahs were all written (sorry, "revealed by Gabriel":rolleyes:) when Islam was a tiny religion with a few dozen adherents.
The intolerant bits of the Bible are from the earlier parts and all relate to specific peoples at specific times, in comparison to the Quranic attacks on all Kufr.
It really isn't. Muhammad's original message was to kill and steal as much as possible in order to gain as much power as possible. He was basically Al Capone. Read the Sunnah.

Ahh but you aren't reading it in context.... You have to consider society at the time..... Mysterious plans.... You are taking metaphor for literal.... Consider the platypus..... I think I have made my point.....

DazMarz

Best: In my opinion, no religion deserves to be called the 'best', as all depend upon nonsensical stories told eons ago and serve only to hinder and prevent natural progress of humanity. But if I had to pick a religion that I saw as the most benign, most harmless... the religion which has not (to my mind) and is not slowing human progress down all that much, I suppose something along the lines of some of the ancient Eastern religions; Shinto or Buddhism. Can't see too much wrong with them.

Worst: Does anyone need to ask? The two most dangerous forces on the face of the planet today are the two largest religions. Christianity and Islam.

Christianity is dangerous as it is, thanks to adherence to the fanatical dogma of the Bible, slowing down human progress and disregarding scientific fact in favour of the myths and lies of ancient texts. Even moderate believers are all part of the one large religious fabric that includes the fundamentalist extremists who denounce evolution, picket funerals, etc. Even the moderate believers support the insipid beliefs of non-truth that threaten progress and that are doing nothing more than keeping people in their place and preventing our lives from being all the more richer.

Islam is similar to Christianity but is even more extreme. The Qu'ran/Koran dictates that Islam should dominate the planet one day, through force if is necessary. And many Muslims would share the view that they wish to have Islam spread across the globe. They share the same beliefs (or many of them at least) as Christians (regarding myths and non-truths and in the same way of keeping science down) but they also go steps further in some places: mutilating little boys and girls' genitals in the name of Allah, forcing women to wear demeaning and restricting clothing and also treating women as second class citizens, demonising natural human sexual needs and wants as evil and unclean (even moreso than the Christians) and of course... being home to the most extreme fundamentalism that we have seen in centuries (and the evidence for which we have seen in New York, Madrid and London; but that is also carrying on in a daily basis in the so-called ''Holy Lands'').

The modern world, where science and reason are slowly but surely starting to take hold, is no place for any kind of organised religion. Religion blossomed in the ancient world when humanity was ignorant to many of life's wonders and mysteries. Science has unravelled these 'mysteries' and we are now educated. There is no need for religion any longer to answer questions.

Science does not claim to know all of the answers; there are still many things about life that science cannot answer. But just because a science, logic and reason cannot explain something, does not mean that religion can do it any better...

Funglegunk

Best: Dudeism

Worst: Relax man, who cares?