Why does the State Pathologist have an S-Class Mercedes?

spyderski

On the 6 o'clock news, during a piece about the tragedy in Newcastlewest, it showed the State Pathologist getting into a black S-Class (with a driver, presumably a Garda). I have no problem with high ranking state officials having decent cars, even Mercs in general - but a €120,000 S-Class is a bit rich - same as the Taoiseach? Why not a "lowly" E-Class even?

slimjimmc

Do you know for a fact if she has a state car & driver assigned to her or her office? I seem to remember something about Dr. Maire Cassidy driving herself to scenes, but that was a few years back.

tricky D

They're not state cars with Garda drivers. They're privately hired chauffeurs and all S-class.

Source: one of them

gizmo555

Considering she and her colleauges have to travel all over the country and carry out detailed scientific examinations on arrival on which the outcome of future murder trials, etc, may depend, it's absolutely reasonable they should be driven.

There may also be security considerations - remember the assasination attempt on Jim Donovan, a dedicated scientist and public servant in the State Laboratory, in an effort to stop him giving evidence?

spyderski

Of course they should be driven, I've no problem with that. My issue is why in an S-Class? Don't care if its state-owned or privately hired (actually privately hired is worse as there has to be a profit margin for the operator, paid by the taxpayer).

tricky D

gizmo555 wrote: »

Considering she and her colleauges have to travel all over the country and carry out detailed scientific examinations on arrival on which the outcome of future murder trials, etc, may depend, it's absolutely reasonable they should be driven.

There may also be security considerations - remember the assasination attempt on Jim Donovan, a dedicated scientist and public servant in the State Laboratory, in an effort to stop him giving evidence?

First point is reasonable for long distances.

The second point does not apply. There are no security considerations addressed as it's a regular chauffeur with zero briefing. The only criteria was a quick visual check of the car and driver. A background check might have been done, but the drivers were not informed of this.

yoshytoshy

I doubt she ordered an s-class mercedes. Do any of the politicians actually order the big cars even ?

dvpower

Is it really a state provided car?
I don't see why any public servant should get a car and driver. Can't they just drive their own cars and claim mileage expenses.
I thought the country was broke; seemingly not.

Corsendonk

Make them drive Lada's, you could have stumbled on the New Bord Snip, we may need to revisit there findings now that the crisis has got worse.

• Why have we two official languages, surely we can only afford one now?
• Do we need an army? We dont fight, can't afford to go on UN missions
• Don't need RTE do we? Look at all the money you would save on that talentless bunch by scrapping RTE. Sure we all have SkyPlus now.

yoshytoshy

Corsendonk wrote: »

[*]Don't need RTE do we? Look at all the money you would save on that talentless bunch by scrapping RTE. Sure we all have SkyPlus now.
[/LIST]

I wouldn't knock Rte ,I don't see the point in paying the crazy wages though.
The rte website is one of the busiest in ireland and I doubt it's because of kenny and tuberte. People just turn on rte radio and tv ,because they're the national broadcaster.

spyderski

Corsendonk wrote: »

Make them drive Lada's, you could have stumbled on the New Bord Snip, we may need to revisit there findings now that the crisis has got worse.

• Why have we two official languages, surely we can only afford one now?
• Do we need an army? We dont fight, can't afford to go on UN missions
• Don't need RTE do we? Look at all the money you would save on that talentless bunch by scrapping RTE. Sure we all have SkyPlus now.

I take it you're being sarcastic about the Lada? So you think she SHOULD have an S-Class then? Sure why not a Maybach while they're at it?

BTW Its "their" not "there" findings

nesf

dvpower wrote: »

Is it really a state provided car?
I don't see why any public servant should get a car and driver. Can't they just drive their own cars and claim mileage expenses.
I thought the country was broke; seemingly not.

This is a special case. We *really* don't want our State Pathologists arriving wrecked tired at the scene after having to do a 100 mile drive to get there. It also gives them a chance to work in transit.

alang184

spyderski wrote: »

...but a €120,000 S-Class is a bit rich - same as the Taoiseach? Why not a "lowly" E-Class even?

Because not enough people complain about it, and they know they can get away with it, so they do it.

An argument can be made for having a driver for long journeys.

Would a Toyota Avensis do the job? Yes it would. Would 120k for the Taoiseach do the job? Yes it would. The opposite of both of these things happen because it can be gotten away with. So they do it.

Chuchoter

I mean she's only a highly trained, best pathologist in the country, why should she have anything nice?...

You don't even know if its a state car. If she wants to buy a fancy car and hire a chauffeur then fine.

Manic Moran

Do any of the politicians actually order the big cars even ?

Last I heard, and granted this is a few years old, they were allowed to select from a list. Generally speaking, depending on grade, you'd go "E-class/A6/Equivalent" or "S-class/A8/Equivalent", but were limited on the exact specifications. For example, if of a certain grade you could select the A6 as long as you only got the 3.2l engine and not the 4.2l version.

NTM

dvpower

nesf wrote: »

This is a special case. We *really* don't want our State Pathologists arriving wrecked tired at the scene after having to do a 100 mile drive to get there. It also gives them a chance to work in transit.

You could make the same special case for thousands of public servants; not least the junior doctors who work ridiculously long shifts on live, not dead, patients.

yoshytoshy

Manic Moran wrote: »

Last I heard, and granted this is a few years old, they were allowed to select from a list. Generally speaking, depending on grade, you'd go "E-class/A6/Equivalent" or "S-class/A8/Equivalent", but were limited on the exact specifications. For example, if of a certain grade you could select the A6 as long as you only got the 3.2l engine and not the 4.2l version.

NTM

So it's a list made up by some civil servants ,who probably get a nice little motor themselves for their trouble.

paulaa

Why do judges need us to pay for their wigs at 2,000 euro a go or 1,485 euro every 2 years for their gowns ? It cost 70,000 over 2 years for these wigs and gowns not to mention an allowance of 10,000 a year to enable them to have a study at home.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20101115/tuk-judges-given-public-funds-to-study-e1cd776.html

spyderski

crayolastereo wrote: »

I
You don't even know if its a state car. If she wants to buy a fancy car and hire a chauffeur then fine.

I know the state are paying for it - guaranteed.

Rockery Woman

Dr Cassidy is a highly respected professional with one of the most stressful and responsible jobs in Ireland.

I have no problem with her being driven in an S-Class Mercedes. She is certainly more deserving of luxury and respect than our government and ex-government ministers. All they did was bleed the country dry.

If some of my taxes are paying for her S-Class Mercedes so be it. I wouldn't do her job, most people wouldnt be able to stomach it. Our tax money was squandered on far worse things.... who deserves the car more? Dr Marie Cassidy or Bertie "Cupboard" Ahearn????

spyderski

Just to clarify, if my original post was unclear - I have no problem with her having a car. I have no problem with her having a driver. I don't care whether the car is state owned or a private hire. I just have an issue with the fact that its an S-Class when, as another poster suggested, an Avensis would do. In fact any car that doesn't cost €120k would do IMO.

cats.life

i would not begrudge her of any thing, not with her job. look at the job she had to do yesterday with the two little kids dead at home , saw her on tv few years ago and she said that when she gets a call to go to crime scene ,she dont know what to exspect, like the kids that is her worse nightmare. her sports car is her toy,

yoshytoshy

There does seem to be a bubble within the government and their employees ,telling each other they're great and laughing about how expensive ,the last hotel they stayed in was.

I don't think anyone classifies Dr Cassidy as one of them types.

spyderski

cats.life wrote: »

i would not begrudge her of any thing, not with her job. look at the job she had to do yesterday with the two little kids dead at home , saw her on tv few years ago and she said that when she gets a call to go to crime scene ,she dont know what to exspect, like the kids that is her worse nightmare. her sports car is her toy,

She gets well paid to do her job. I agree its a tough one, but thats what she trained for & gets paid to do. She doesn't need an S-Class to do it.

And its not a sports car BTW.

johnnyskeleton

There is no one else in Ireland who can do her job. There are assistant pathologists, but none so qualified.

Therefore, she can set her price.

The alternative is that they get some schlub with a bus pass and she comes along acting for the defence in high profile murders and destroys their evidence.

Chuchoter

spyderski wrote: »

I know the state are paying for it - guaranteed.

So she should work for free then? Its her salary, she can spend it on what she pleases. You work and train your whole life to get as good as your job as she is, at that point, you get to have nice things. You are just being a begrudger.

spyderski

yoshytoshy wrote: »

There does seem to be a bubble within the government and their employees ,telling each other they're great and laughing about how expensive ,the last hotel they stayed in was.

I don't think anyone classifies Dr Cassidy as one of them types.

I'm not classifying her as any "type" other than she's a State employee who is driven around in an S-Class.

A €120k car is a pittance in the scheme of things, but the state is BANKRUPT and its employees are being chauffered around in luxury German saloons.

I also have no problem if the going rate for a State Pathologist is €300,000 per year - pay them whatever they're worth - but why put them in a car like this. I'm not suggesting a 10 year old Skoda here, just something more in keeping with the times we're living in.

alang184

Yeah, I think the point is, would using a Toyota Avensis hinder the quality of her work? Not at all, I believe. And in the process, it could save the state 70k+ in one case alone.

This is the crux of the whole thing (particularly with politicians). They go beyond what would be sufficient for their job. But it's up to the electorate to hold them accountable. (and I don't see that happening in my lifetime)

EDIT:

If she specifically demanded from the state this kind of luxury car, then that's another matter. But the point is, we all know that these "perks" come along with ease when the state is involved.

gizmo555

spyderski wrote: »

She gets well paid to do her job. I agree its a tough one, but thats what she trained for & gets paid to do. She doesn't need an S-Class to do it.

You're assuming on the basis of seeing her get out of an S-class at one crime scene that that is the norm and she or someone in her office has requested it.

If, as another poster has written, she was driven by a chauffeur company, how do you know that the S-class was just what happened to be available on the day - by definition, they can't book in advance - or that her office is paying the full rate for an S-class? I imagine demand for such chauffeur services has tapered off in the last couple of years, to put it mildly, and that deals can be done.

Anyway, if you're that concerned about it, instead of jumping to conclusions here, why not make an FoI request to get accurate information? Alternatively, keep an eye out at future TV news reports and get your local TD on the case if Dr Cassidy still appears to be using transport above her station . . .

spyderski

crayolastereo wrote: »

So she should work for free then? Its her salary, she can spend it on what she pleases. You work and train your whole life to get as good as your job as she is, at that point, you get to have nice things. You are just being a begrudger.

Ah jesus, will you give me a break. I never said she should work for free. And she's not spending it - that's my point - WE ARE.
As for begrudgery, I happen to have a more expensive car than this, but the state sure as hell didn't pay for it, just stuck me for €60K in VRT & VAT.

yoshytoshy

spyderski wrote: »

I'm not classifying her as any "type" other than she's a State employee who is driven around in an S-Class.

A €120k car is a pittance in the scheme of things, but the state is BANKRUPT and its employees are being chauffered around in luxury German saloons.

I've caught a glimpse of her getting out of cars before and they were never head turning cars ,vw passat or something I remember. She was driving herself.

If I was on important business and had to do a lot of travelling ,I would expect a pretty comfortable car to take me there. There have been a lot of fatalities yesterday afterall
Most reputable chaufer companies have s-class type cars anyways.

copacetic

spyderski wrote: »

Just to clarify, if my original post was unclear - I have no problem with her having a car. I have no problem with her having a driver. I don't care whether the car is state owned or a private hire. I just have an issue with the fact that its an S-Class when, as another poster suggested, an Avensis would do. In fact any car that doesn't cost €120k would do IMO.

So you think they should ring around every company willing to drive her to Limerick/Cork and wait for hours then drive her back asking do they have an Avensis? Otherwise what, don't go? The nature of these companies is to have 'luxury' type cars, it's a simple as that.

What an idiotic thread.

spyderski

copacetic wrote: »

So you think they should ring around every company willing to drive her to Limerick/Cork and wait for hours then drive her back asking do they have an Avensis? Otherwise what, don't go? The nature of these companies is to have 'luxury' type cars, it's a simple as that.

What an idiotic thread.

No, in my idiocy, I would presume that "they" would have the common sense to have a car permanently at her disposal, but we are talking about the civil service here, so they probably actually do ring around whenever they need a car. What an idiotic bunch of wasters running the country.

gizmo555

spyderski wrote: »

No, in my idiocy, I would presume that "they" would have the common sense to have a car permanently at her disposal, but we are talking about the civil service here, so they probably actually do ring around whenever they need a car. What an idiotic bunch of wasters running the country.

Yet more leaping to conclusions on no evidence.

How many scenes does the pathologist attend annually and what would the full costs, including driver, maintenance, depreciation, fuel, etc, be of operating a car and having a driver on permanent staff?

How would that compare to the cost of hiring a chauffeur driven car on an ad hoc basis as required?

How do you know they don't have a car and driver permanently available but it had already gone to Cork, given the appalling coincidence of the two cases that are in the news at present?

Come back when you know the answers to these questions and in the meantime get off your soapbox.

Normally I don't post but feel bound to reply to this.

One of, if not the - hardest working, honest and conscientious individual we have been lucky enough to attract to work for us is being criticised and described as just another state employee. She may be a State Employee, but she can't be classed in the same league as paper pushers.We were a wealthy nation when Ms. Cassidy was appointed in 2004. She is a highly qualified individual by any International measure. If the car is part of her contract then so what?! Look at the billions we've poured into our banking "system" or whatever we want to call that excuse for a system. Consider the millions given to private landlords every month in the form or rent supplement, consider that Brian Cowen is paid more than the American President.

No amount of money or fancy cars could pay me to do what she did today - spent the day in a little house in Newcastle West where 5 months old baby Amy and her "big" brother" three year old Reece, their mammy and mammy's friend were all stabbed to death. Ms. Cassidy's job has to be one of the most harrowing, stressful, draining jobs that exists and I thank and applaud her for it. In fact, in car terms, why don't we give her a Ferrari? She's probably the only State employee who actually deserves to be coddled a little.

shadowninty

While I generally lean to the left (not that I'd vote no-policy labour :rolleyes:), I find it quite annoying when people give out about people driving nice cars
Most of them worked hard and earned it.

spyderski

OK, the general feeling seems to be that I'm wrong.

Give them all S-Classes so.... It might be appreciated by the Germans as a sign of our gratitude for their bailout.

Mod, can you close this thread please?

mikemac

Personally, I don't have a problem with it

They need to be on the scence asap to examine the evidence

I want them there fresh and able to do their job. It's an incredibly responsible job. Trials depend on it and they will be examining gruesome cases and horrendous fatal injuries.
Examining chidren and adults in Newcastle West and Ballycotton for example. I wouldn't do it for any salary.
Someone could go to jail on a life sentence depending on critical evidence.

Driving from Kerry to Derry is an exhausting experience. I know many private sector delivery workers do it but they are not dealing with critical evidence at the end.
She deserves a driver and car more then any government minister!

nesf

dvpower wrote: »

You could make the same special case for thousands of public servants; not least the junior doctors who work ridiculously long shifts on live, not dead, patients.

Junior doctors don't travel the length and breadth of the country as a normal everyday part of their jobs though.

copacetic

spyderski wrote: »

No, in my idiocy, I would presume that "they" would have the common sense to have a car permanently at her disposal, but we are talking about the civil service here, so they probably actually do ring around whenever they need a car. What an idiotic bunch of wasters running the country.

It would be idiotic to have a car permanently at her disposal when it isn't needed that often. Around the Dublin area she often drives herself and presumably only uses a car service when going long distances.

You are the same kind of person who would complain about the cost of keeping a car on the road, with drivers on shifts, a fleet manager etc.

It's much, much cheaper to rent one with a driver as needed.

Black Swan

spyderski wrote: »

Mod, can you close this thread please?

You are the thread OP, so if no one has a serious objection by PM, I will respect your wishes.