DTT stbs for 50 or under

wil

There is a sticky for DTT SAT combo boxes but none for regular DTT only stbs.
Freeview boxes are readily available cheaply for the UK.
Yet the only boxes on sale here are the Walker brand in Powercity which at around €100 are a rip off in my mind.
http://www.powercity.ie/?par=10-23-WP11DT

Could those in the know, or have tested, post details of DTT boxes available to purchase in the EU, preferably around €50 or below.

There is going to be a market for potentially hundreds of thousands of TVs to access terrestial TV, think bedroom, kitchen, garage TVs that will no longer be able to get their "dose" of Fair City, Xpose or Vincent Brown.

Not too bothered with epg or various services so long as they can display the SD and HD channels. Even SD only boxes if cheap enough might be worth mentioning for the short term. If the UK boxes can be got for £20, why should we not be able to find similar.

So far I have come across (mostly Polish suppliers) these.
Dont know if they definitely work but the specs suggest they should. The combo version of the Opticum works so the DTT only should too.

Suggestions and confirmations please.

Suggested possible DTT boxes suitable and cheap

OPTICUM - HD FT24p (about €50)

http://www.satsklep.pl/index.php?s=produkt&id_prod=1830&id_kat=74&id_typu=0&lang=eng

Ferguson DVB-T FT 8100 HD (about 60)

http://www.satsklep.pl/index.php?s=produkt&id_prod=1815&id_kat=316&id_typu=0

TechniSat DVB-T DiGYBOXX T4 (about 64)

http://www.satsklep.pl/index.php?s=produkt&id_prod=1648&id_kat=302&id_typu=0

John mac

dont forget to add the 15 for delivery..

STB

Yes it hasnt been stickied because.

1. HD Combo boxes will never have MHEG5 middleware and so there will not be an official Combo box with a Saorview Logo (because of the MHEG5 requirement and the elephant in the room that is reception of UK Satellite in ROI).

2. The DTT only boxes are officially being certified with Saorview logo's following okay by Terracom. There are only 2 at the mo, both Walker boxes, one fisher price plastic version and the other the "11" which is tiny and less plastic. There will be more along.......... probably. They are not worth €100. They should be €60.

3. In the event that MHEG5 isnt a big issue for people, and they dont mind missing out on a lilkely RTE EPG design and Text then the French HD market is the best place to source the next best things that will dsplay the stations at least, specifcally the TNT HD boxes all available under the 50 mark (before postage).

Xoro HRT

Sigmatek 500 HD,
Sigmatek DVBR 520
Yamada - DTV 4000 HD
Metronic Zapbox HD-Z1
Media Price - 703060 etc

All of these will work. If you are in France you will pick up a box that carries the label "TNT HD" for about €30 in a supermarket. A lot of the French ones allow you play Divx and MKVs from the USB port and you can record to a drive also.

Those boxes that you posted will work fine for DTT. Remember though being a grey box they are not fully compliant with Saorview spec. NZ's speced products will work fine as they have MHEG5 in their spec (boxes such as the Zinwell and ExtraT) but are too dear. The DVB-T2 Freeview HD boxes are coming down in price, but are still lurking at the 100 euro mark.

The ones to stay away from altogther are the HP@L3 or MPEG4 SD only boxes - such as the Sagem IDT81(Picnic Box) and the Philex Skyline and cheap muck sold on ebay from Hong Kong that wont decode HD broadcasts.

wil

Very useful post and in itself worth stickying.

- not sure I understand the logic of not doing so as it is a glaring omission from the top of the terrestial forum,
it will be asked ad nauseum,
MHEG5 is of little importance at the moment to anyone who cannot pronounce it.

Getting ripped off just because a cheap stb importer recognised a captive market and sticking a Saorview sticker on that does not inspire me with any great confidence of quality.

watty

It's not true that MHEG5 is of little importance. That could be a different tune with unhappy purchasers in Jan-April.. http://www.saortv.info/about/mheg5/

Also it should add nothing to the cost of a box as it's only software and unlike the "OpenTV" used by Sky, "MediaHighway" used by UPC and MHP used in Italy, it's royalty free.

Only Saorview certified TVs and Boxes will have OTA (over the Air) upgrades. The full Launch is probably May 2011, so not a huge rush, unless you need to buy a TV, in which case as well as Walker some Sony, Samsung and LG may be certified soon. Some of those appear to be compatible, but just not yet certified.

The Walker stuff is Vestel and resold under many well known brands. It's not particularly poor in any way, Turkish made with UK and USA design labs for HW and SW.

Btr

Alhough Ive absolutely no connection with Walkers or anyone else, I think you're being a little unfair. As I understand they were the first to go through the approval process. If you want to take it on anybody, how about the mainstream companies who did nothing up to now. Why, well I guess if were suspicious, you might actually thinking it's far more economic for them to continue to dump UK stock into the Irish Market.

While I'm continuing the rant, let's be fair to RTE who only saw themselves as bit players in all of this. They had to sit by as 2 consortia fluted around and eventually abandoned tenders.

Rte should be complimented for delivering Dtt within the timeframe they were obliged to despite the messing around

Sponge Bob

Btr wrote: »

Rte should be complimented for delivering Dtt within the timeframe they were obliged to despite the messing around

No they didn't , they never even managed the 28 transmitters the minister was promised when he announced launch around April/May...delivering but 24 of them by the end of October. About 18 of them were already live when he announced the 28.

We must protect the Saorview sticker from cowboys, starting with getting mpeg2 freeview rubbish out of the shops in Ireland. That battle is ongoing.

The next battle will be over MHEG5 once the complete cack is out of the channel. The French "TND HD" gear is good enough for now.

watty

However the UK "Freeview HD" (Not Freeview with so called HD Ready or Full HD) is dropping in price and becoming more available. IMO a better choice than "TNT HD", especially for Welsh, N.I. & IOM reception.

Some or all of the UK "Freeview HD" may actually only be lacking the Saorview certification.

So +1 etc to all your post except the TNT HD bit

Sponge Bob

watty wrote: »

However the UK "Freeview HD" (Not Freeview with so called HD Ready or Full HD) is dropping in price and becoming more available. IMO a better choice than "TNT HD", especially for Welsh, N.I. & IOM reception.

Absolutely Watty but I am severely constrained by the "under €50" bit of the thread title here. I hope Freeview HD boxes drop to that level by this time next year. "TND HD" compliant boxes can be found under €50 today.

Sam Russell

It would help if the RTE NL test channel ran with a full set of the requirements implemented - such as AAC audio, MHEG5 test apps, so that it could be used by viewers and dealers to demenstrate that equipment complies. The specs are not comprehensive enough to rely on the manufacturers information.

They also need to demonstrate the over-the-air software upgrade.

RTE NL could also publish, or publicise, what they are up to with DTT.

watty

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Absolutely Watty but I am severely constrained by the "under €50" bit of the thread title here. I hope Freeview HD boxes drop to that level by this time next year. "TND HD" compliant boxes can be found under €50 today.

I'd take the view, why skimp €40 on something that should last 8 years for a service that won't have full launch till May, and that might cost a lot closer to €60 by Jan 2011? But I see where you are coming from and if someone ONLY has €50 and is desperate to have Saorview TODAY, the TNT HD is a workable solution.

My son is enamoured now with HD from seeing the RTE NL test loop. Today he buys a dual tuner USB stick for his 1920x1080 laptop (his was the "gamer Win7 laptop" I used in review test) for under €30 inc postage. Like the "TNT HD", it doesn't do MHEG5, though in theory and application that does support that can be added in future. It may do MHEG5 in the Win7 MCE viewer, he only tested the supplied viewer. In January he's buying an HDTV that does Saorview.

I think for something "decent" under €50 inc postage and VAT is little ambitious today.

irishchris

watty wrote: »

I'd take the view, why skimp €40 on something that should last 8 years for a service that won't have full launch till May, and that might cost a lot closer to €60 by Jan 2011? But I see where you are coming from and if someone ONLY has €50 and is desperate to have Saorview TODAY, the TNT HD is a workable solution.

My son is enamoured now with HD from seeing the RTE NL test loop. Today he buys a dual tuner USB stick for his 1920x1080 laptop (his was the "gamer Win7 laptop" I used in review test) for under €30 inc postage. Like the "TNT HD", it doesn't do MHEG5, though in theory and application that does support that can be added in future. It may do MHEG5 in the Win7 MCE viewer, he only tested the supplied viewer. In January he's buying an HDTV that does Saorview.

I think for something "decent" under €50 inc postage and VAT is little ambitious today.

it should do mheg 5 digital aertel and epg if used with win 7 media centre

Raiser

FWIW I wandered in here 2 weeks ago looking for the DTT STB's Sticky and found it a bit odd that there wasn't one?

No harm to have one for People who want a simple, no bells and whistles solution

- Also the < €50 in the title doesn't necessarily fit with the sticky title but I suppose they should be freely available at that price point given what you actually get......

lucernarian

What's valid this week may not be valid in a few weeks with the fast-moving pace of MPEG4 STB pricing. Unless the sticky's first post was repeatedly edited to reflect the cheapest few on the market out there, the good suggestions would quickly become lost in a large thread full of irrelevant questions and outdated information.

I would hope a sticky would not be made for such a topic. Though I admit it is hard to search for good threads when the search function doesn't allow for searches for "STB" or "DTT" etc.

watty

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

What's valid this week may not be valid in a few weeks with the fast-moving pace of MPEG4 STB pricing. Unless the sticky's first post was repeatedly edited to reflect the cheapest few on the market out there, the good suggestions would quickly become lost in a large thread full of irrelevant questions and outdated information.

I would hope a sticky would not be made for such a topic. Though I admit it is hard to search for good threads when the search function doesn't allow for searches for "STB" or "DTT" etc.

The only valid list anyway, is the one that RTE NL are compiling.

12 element

STB wrote: »

1. HD Combo boxes will never have MHEG5 middleware and so there will not be an official Combo box with a Saorview Logo (because of the MHEG5 requirement and the elephant in the room that is reception of UK Satellite in ROI).

Is it not possible to have MHEG-5 and a satellite tuner? I know that RTE said that they don't care what other features a receiver has as long as it meets the minimum requirements. But is it not possible with the MHEG5 standard?

watty

ALL Freesat HD and Freesat boxes do MHEG5

A freesat HD box should work with Saorsat if it's a TS copy of Saorview and you have a Ka-LNBF @9E after April.

watty

Tesco Technika Freeview HD box STBHDIS2010 ( Allegedly now £35 from Tesco Outlet, was £80?). How much is that in Euros?

STB

12 element wrote: »

Is it not possible to have MHEG-5 and a satellite tuner? I know that RTE said that they don't care what other features a receiver has as long as it meets the minimum requirements. But is it not possible with the MHEG5 standard?

Why would you want to ?

Freesat uses MHEG5 based software via Huffman tables. Its software that MHEG5 engine runs.

DTT will use MHEG5 via a specifically written bit of software.

The MHEG5 engine cannot combine both in one channel list for that very reason. HD combo tvs can but not via a single channel list. It requires switching sources.

That is the key problem to making combo boxes work displaying 7 day epg for both. This should be easy as getting the EIT data for both and populating the Combo boxes EPG software. All sounds great except that 7 day EIT isnt broadcast for 28.2. The only way of doing is to have an application that grabs the huffman tables off the satellite transponders broadcasting the programme data for freesat and combining it with the EIT from DVB-T. Only known way is via Linux and the Enigma2 and third party plugins like OpenPli as reverse engineered by Myth TV guys years ago.

byrnefm

watty wrote: »

Tesco Technika Freeview HD box STBHDIS2010 ( Allegedly now £35 from Tesco Outlet, was £80?). How much is that in Euros?

Hi Watty,

Is the Tesco Outlet the catalogue that the UK stores have? I was trying to find out if it was available online from them and they're charging £70 for it from their online store. (I googled STBHDIS2010 and checked out the Tesco direct link).

Sam Russell

The £35 price refers to refurb or return stock bing sold on ebay. Not full product so does not count.

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

Duplicate post due to my crap broadband, sorry. Mods please delete.

Why not delete it yourself?

Edit - Go Advanced - Delete this Message (top of page)

Tony

Thats a nice well laid out site Watty, is it using the URL that Paul donated ?

watty wrote: »

http://www.saortv.info/about/mheg5/

/QUOTE]

watty

Tony wrote: »

Thats a nice well laid out site Watty, is it using the URL that Paul donated ?

watty wrote: »

http://www.saortv.info/about/mheg5/

Yes. Thanks.

I'm trying to have little opinion or technical stuff. Just simple explanation.

I emailled various folk in RTE and see RTE IPs visiting, but no complaints, so I guess they are not having a fit about the Logo in the header.

Oddly a load of visits from FÁS Dublin and Department of Foreign Affairs. :eek:


BTW, Tesco have reduced the full price new version of that "freeview HD" box to £70 http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.208-0120.aspx

I asked in Limerick Tesco why *ALL* their digital TVs are Freeview (including many so called Full HDTV and HD Ready which will never receive HD via aerial in UK either) and not Freeview HD, as they sell the "Freeview HD" ones in UK and they work here, but Freeview ones don't. She confirmed NOT A SINGLE "Freeview HD" TV or set-box stocked.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

I asked in Limerick Tesco why *ALL* their digital TVs are Freeview (including many so called Full HDTV and HD Ready which will never receive HD via aerial in UK either) and not Freeview HD, as they sell the "Freeview HD" ones in UK and they work here, but Freeview ones don't. She confirmed NOT A SINGLE "Freeview HD" TV or set-box stocked.

I was in M&S in Liffey Valley today and noticed a Sony 40S5500 TV on display, and would you believe, on the screen was a banner showing 'NO VIDEO' so the set was tuned to show Saorview and could not - obviously a MPEG2 set which makes it 2 years old. This was on the display model! It was unattended - not the TV, the dept.

I've given up pointing this kind of thing out to the staff, it s a total waste of time. They do not understand what I am complaining about and do not have any authority to change anything anyway - even the so-called managers. It is a disgrace.

byte

Yep, the S5500 series is about 2 years old now.

All current Sony models have MPEG4 (current models have two letters, eg. EX501, BX).

Any Sony TV model number ending with 03 (eg 40EX503) are Freeview HD models.

Sponge Bob

M&S have never sold a proper Digital TV in Ireland, same as Aldi and Lidl in fact.

Sam Russell

Surely if that TV in M&S is two years old, it cannot be sold as new. Even ex-demo would be misleading. It is nearly worn out if it has been powered on for two years, apart from the fact that it is incompatible.

Obviously total contempt for their customers. M&S use a Pound/euro conversion rate of £1=€1.50, and their UK based mail order will ship to any country in the world, except Ireland. No wonder their Irish shops are prifitable.

watty

MS in Cork did swap a returned Freeview set for a model with MPEG4.

Educate the Public. The shops won't stock stuff that people won't buy, or else return.

Peddyr

Sam Russell wrote: »

I was in M&S in Liffey Valley today and noticed a Sony 40S5500 TV on display, and would you believe, on the screen was a banner showing 'NO VIDEO' so the set was tuned to show Saorview and could not - obviously a MPEG2 set which makes it 2 years old. This was on the display model! It was unattended - not the TV, the dept.

I've given up pointing this kind of thing out to the staff, it s a total waste of time. They do not understand what I am complaining about and do not have any authority to change anything anyway - even the so-called managers. It is a disgrace.

I was in Tesco Monaghan town last Friday and they had a load of UK Freeview equipment on sale there without a disclaimer or notice advising that the equipment is useless for Saorview. Someone / authority in ROI has to get a serious grip on all this non compatible equipment being sold with total disregard to the consumer. It's a shambles and an unethical practice offloading UK stuff in ROI that's not fit for purpose! Surely this practise must be in contravention of some EU ruling...?

watty

It's obsolete compared with "Freeview HD" stuff (which does work here), which they DO sell in UK Tesco

Makes you suspicious.

Sam Russell

Peddyr wrote: »

I was in Tesco Monaghan town last Friday and they had a load of UK Freeview equipment on sale there without a disclaimer or notice advising that the equipment is useless for Saorview. Someone / authority in ROI has to get a serious grip on all this non compatible equipment being sold with total disregard to the consumer. It's a shambles and an unethical practice offloading UK stuff in ROI that's not fit for purpose! Surely this practise must be in contravention of some EU ruling...?

There is no EU ruling but it is against the sale of goods act. Unfortunately, it does work with $ky. so there is a tissue of a defence, but it should not succeed. I hope whoever buys brings them back for a full refund.

Cantona's Collars

The brother in law bought a new tv yesterday which was branded 'freeview' on the box.I told him to bring it back to the store (Argos) as it wasn't Irish DTT compatible,would they be obliged to replace it with a compatible set?

Sponge Bob

Yep back with it and make sure you get a manager in that Argos and complain loudly about their dumping incompatible TVs on the Irish market. I gave out to an Aldi manager today and he already seemed to know that his TVs were turkeys and apologised profusely for them.

Once these people realise that the public are on to them they will cop themselves on, particularly Aldi and Lidl who have NEVER stocked a proper TV in Ireland and Argos and Tesco who seem to think they generally needn't.

The Cush

zerks wrote: »

The brother in law bought a new tv yesterday which was branded 'freeview' on the box.I told him to bring it back to the store (Argos) as it wasn't Irish DTT compatible,would they be obliged to replace it with a compatible set?

Has he setup the TV and found only the radio channels, no video?

I have two freeview certified TVs with MPEG-4 (one almost 3 years old) working OK with Saorview.

Cantona's Collars

I may try it out for him,he's not technically minded so all of this goes over his head.This is the TV http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/5296888/c_1/1|category_root|Home+entertainment+and+sat+nav|14419512/c_2/2|cat_14419512|Televisions|14419667.htm

reaper180

as it says in the specs
Please note that the digital and Freeview features of this TV are not available in the Republic of Ireland. bring it back no good to ya

Cantona's Collars

Cheers guys I'll tell him to bring it back,checked Power City's site-fair play to them that 99% of their tv's are Saorview compatible and the ones that aren't are advertised as not compatible so you know what your getting.
Pity the likes of Argos etc. wouldn't follow their lead instead of giving us incompatible gear.There should be some sort of government regulation as tv reception is actually very important to the population.

Tony

zerks wrote: »

There should be some sort of government regulation as tv reception is actually very important to the population.

There is, its covered under "fitness for purpose" in consumer legislation.

Sponge Bob

From what I can see Powercity are the closest to full compliance, they still have a few non compliant small screen and combo units and they had better get rid of those by christmas.

DID and Currys and expert Electrical are fairly close to full compliance.

I expect Currys DID Powercity and Expert Electrical to stop selling non MPEG4 units by christmas. They may need some hustling and giving out to in the interim but they can do it.

I do not expect Tesco and Argos to comply unless put under severe pressure. They appear to have stacks of rubbish to get rid of it. They should send the lot back to the UK for starters.

LIDL and ALDI are being pressurised to stop selling their 100% non compliant UK spec TVs until they can source Freeview HD offers as standard in future.

Online Retailers Komplett and Elara are close to full compliance while Pixmania are not, the latter are happy to send mpeg2 tvs down the pixmania.ie channel....that should be stopped as they have plenty of TNT HD compliant gear they could sell instead....even if some does not have MHEG5 functionality it will tune and then show picture and sound.

Sam Russell

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Online Retailers Komplett and Elara are close to full compliance while Pixmania are not, the latter are happy to send mpeg2 tvs down the pixmania.ie channel....that should be stopped as they have plenty of TNT HD compliant gear they could sell instead....even if some does not have MHEG5 functionality it will tune and then show picture and sound.

Would a software upgrade be enough to install MHEG5 funtionality to these TNT HD sets?

In other words could consumer pressure get them upgraded?

Tony

Sam Russell wrote: »

Would a software upgrade be enough to install MHEG5 funtionality to these TNT HD sets?

In other words could consumer pressure get them upgraded?

I doubt consumer pressure would work, the market is very small here compared to their target French market.

watty

Unlike MPEG2 to MPEG4 which is impossible as a firmware update, the addition of MPEG5 instead of or as well as MHP (depending on program memory space) is possible.

Unless they want to get Freeview certified (and if it's a HD set, then they need DVB-T2, which is HARDWARE), they won't bother.

As Tony says, market is too small. Non-HD tuners are obsolete now in UK (You need DVB-T2 and "Freeview HD" for UK market) on "Full HD" or "HD Ready" TVs.

Don't buy an MHP set, buy an MHEG5 one. For early adopters with wrong thing, assume it will never be upgraded. At least unlike a Picnic or Neotion CAM, a French "TNT HD" will continue to get the basic channels.

Btr

We need to be careful here. The tvs mentioned are turkeys if and only if you try connect them to Irish Dtt. They are fit for purpose for UPC and Sky

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

Would a software upgrade be enough to install MHEG5 funtionality to these TNT HD sets?

In other words could consumer pressure get them upgraded?

A TNT-HD certified receiver may also be freeview certified in which case MHEG-5 will be available if installed with UK as the country setting (or even with Ireland as the country setting).

TNT-HD certification guaranteed an Irish buyer that the receiver had an MPEG-4 decoder.

My recently purchased Sony (TNT-HD/freeview certified) TV displays MHEG-5 text in the Ireland setting, an almost three year Sony TV (TNT-HD/freeview certified) will only displays MHEG-5 text in the UK setting.

If someone has a TNT-HD certified TV set to Ireland try a UK install, MHEG-5 may be available.

watty

Btr wrote: »

We need to be careful here. The tvs mentioned are turkeys if and only if you try connect them to Irish Dtt. They are fit for purpose for UPC and Sky

No, That's not a TV. It's ONLY a TV if it works via aerial. A Security TV PAL monitor is NOT a TV, nor a Computer Monitor, but will work on UPC and Sky via SCART.

Some Computer monitors have HDMI and 1080 50Hz and will work on UPC and Sky boxes.

A so called "TV" that ONLY works on a Sky/UPC box is not fit for purpose as a TV. It will not work at all if you cancel UPC and on Sky Box will not receive ANY Irish TV if you cancel payTV.

A TV is not fit for purpose if it only works on PayTV. That has been established by court already and why legally Pay TV satellite receivers must work with basic FTA. Sky may in fact legally be obliged after May to enable Diseqc switching on Irish Digiboxes (just a small overnight automatic Software upgrade) as then FTA Irish TV will be on Satellite for the first time.