Huge shipping charges- please help

cojomo2

Hi,

I recently shipped( by sea) some goods from the far east to Dublin,as I regularly do.

I pay for shipping at origin ,I use the same shipping agent every time.

My stuff( about 2 cbm) arrived in Dublin a fe days ago. Usually my agent here sends me a bill for vat,duty and then local charges. Local charges are usually 100-200 euro.

This time my agent has informed me that the landing company has presented him with a bill for "origin handling charges of circa 1,500 euro..I then presented them with a copy of my invoice (which I received at origin from my agent there) showing all origin charges have been paid.

I am then presented with a new bill, for "local charges" for about the same amount..when it should be about 10 times less.

They are holding my goods until I pay, and have told me that they will be shortly charging me a daily storage fee if I do not pay up now.

I don't have this type of cash, this is a joke, what can I do?

I need the stock asap:(

shindig-jp

What are the names of the Bills you were presented with from your customs clearance agent. For example Port Bill of Loading , Bill of Lading , Certificate of contents , FOB, CFI etc etc ? . Did you calculate the fluctuating currency at time of purchase ?

cojomo2

shindig-jp wrote: »

What are the names of the Bills you were presented with from your customs clearance agent. For example Port Bill of Loading , Bill of Lading , Certificate of contents , FOB, CFI etc etc ? . Did you calculate the fluctuating currency at time of purchase ?

First bill just said "origin handling charges".
This was clearly incorrect as I paid all origin charges including the actual shipping charge in person in the far east.

So then they scrapped that charge and came up with an even bigger one, and this was the explanation:

For all*cost from our agent is local charges at*Dublin only.
Excluded local charges from Rotterdam, pls noted and explain with your client,
local charge as following :


CFS************************************ = EUR 85/CBM (MINIMUM 5 CBM)
THC************************** ********* = EUR 350
DUBLIN LOCAL CHARGES***=* EUR 50/CBM (MINIMUM 5 CBM)
IMPORT CHARGE*************** =* EUR 50/CBM (MINIMUM 5 CBM)
DOCUMENTATION************** =* EUR 85
PORT SECURITY**************** =* EUR 100
ISPS********************************** =* EUR 15/CBM (MINIMUM 100)
*

My shipment is 2.5 cbm, .. And apart from vat and duty , the local charges I usually pay are no more then a couple of hundred euro tops...

Is there anything I can do?

shindig-jp

So what was the cost of

CFR (Cost and Freight)
Seller paid costs necessary to bring the goods to the named port of destination.

or did you pay

CPT (Carriage Paid To)
Seller paid freight to the named destination.

cojomo2

shindig-jp wrote: »

So what was the cost of

CFR (Cost and Freight)
Seller paid costs necessary to bring the goods to the named port of destination.

or did you pay

CPT (Carriage Paid To)
Seller paid freight to the named destination.

I paid the shipping co. In the far east about 600 euro to this this by sea to Dublin, I have been using them for over 3 yrs and never had this issue..

shindig-jp

I'm trying to pin down the list of shipping acronyms used on the Export Cert which you paid for at the port of origin and possible lead you into the trap of paying necessary excess . ie Ship to Ship transfer at a port on the continent or Bristol England .


Personally I export from Japan and Import from Ireland (so me ol' friend/enemy M**K Su***van down there at East Wall have a bash at each other from time to time and usually he is right and it is me who has made a mistake in my shipping order .

RUDOLF289

cojomo2 wrote: »

First bill just said "origin handling charges".
This was clearly incorrect as I paid all origin charges including the actual shipping charge in person in the far east.

So then they scrapped that charge and came up with an even bigger one, and this was the explanation:

For all*cost from our agent is local charges at*Dublin only.
Excluded local charges from Rotterdam, pls noted and explain with your client,
local charge as following :


CFS************************************ = EUR 85/CBM (MINIMUM 5 CBM)
THC************************** ********* = EUR 350
DUBLIN LOCAL CHARGES***=* EUR 50/CBM (MINIMUM 5 CBM)
IMPORT CHARGE*************** =* EUR 50/CBM (MINIMUM 5 CBM)
DOCUMENTATION************** =* EUR 85
PORT SECURITY**************** =* EUR 100
ISPS********************************** =* EUR 15/CBM (MINIMUM 100)
*

My shipment is 2.5 cbm, .. And apart from vat and duty , the local charges I usually pay are no more then a couple of hundred euro tops...

Is there anything I can do?

Hello Cojomo2,

I have come accross some rip off artists in my 30+ years in the shipping industry, but this is unreal.

It appears that this shipment has arrived through a different agent than usual.

Will you PM me your contact details to discuss this. Not sure if anything can be done, but will do my level best.

Cheers,
Rudolf289

RUDOLF289

shindig-jp wrote: »

So what was the cost of

CFR (Cost and Freight)
Seller paid costs necessary to bring the goods to the named port of destination.

or did you pay

CPT (Carriage Paid To)
Seller paid freight to the named destination.

Hello Shindig-jp,

This has nothing to do with the incoterms you mention, regrettably. The Chinese shipper got a sweet deal and possibly paid nothing for the shipping and the local charges. The chinese carrier then instructs his agent at destination to collect a so called China Import Service Fee. In this case the shipment has transhipped in Rotterdam, so the Rotterdam agent has added (by the looks of it) a royal fee to it and now the agent in Dublin is trumping that.

The problem is, everybody knows that the client in Ireland has already paid for the goods before the leave China, so they can take liberties like this as the chinese exporter already has his money.

I have posted many times on this subject and I keep telling people, do not leave the shipping arrangements to you chinese suppliers, it is a recipe for disaster.

Regards,
Rudolf289

declan37

cojomo2 wrote: »

Hi,

I recently shipped( by sea) some goods from the far east to Dublin,as I regularly do.

I pay for shipping at origin ,I use the same shipping agent every time.

My stuff( about 2 cbm) arrived in Dublin a fe days ago. Usually my agent here sends me a bill for vat,duty and then local charges. Local charges are usually 100-200 euro.

This time my agent has informed me that the landing company has presented him with a bill for "origin handling charges of circa 1,500 euro..I then presented them with a copy of my invoice (which I received at origin from my agent there) showing all origin charges have been paid.

I am then presented with a new bill, for "local charges" for about the same amount..when it should be about 10 times less.

They are holding my goods until I pay, and have told me that they will be shortly charging me a daily storage fee if I do not pay up now.

I don't have this type of cash, this is a joke, what can I do?

I need the stock asap:(

The same thing is happening to me.
ive ordered limestone, stone from china. its on the water now arrival time est. jan 1st
heres what the irish delivery agent is looking for.
Frt: Prepaid
Agency Fee: $80.00
Customs Clearance: €65
Handling Fee: $85 per tonne = $612.00 (7,200.00 tonne 4.27cbm)
Terminal Handling Charge: $60per tonne = $432.00
Admin/IPS Fee: $50.00

i can believe it. did you find a way around it, is it possible to change the irish delivery agent on thew B/L.
any help would be really appreciated, what a country
all the best
declan

cojomo2

declan37 wrote: »

The same thing is happening to me.
ive ordered limestone, stone from china. its on the water now arrival time est. jan 1st
heres what the irish delivery agent is looking for.
Frt: Prepaid
Agency Fee: $80.00
Customs Clearance: €65
Handling Fee: $85 per tonne = $612.00 (7,200.00 tonne 4.27cbm)
Terminal Handling Charge: $60per tonne = $432.00
Admin/IPS Fee: $50.00

i can believe it. did you find a way around it, is it possible to change the irish delivery agent on thew B/L.
any help would be really appreciated, what a country
all the best
declan

Hi there,

my advice to you would be to try an get your agents (at origin and here in Dublin) to put pressure on whichever company is issueing these charges to reduce them.

Failing that, find out the name and the MD of the company that has issued the charges, contact him and explain your situation and be nice and polite and hope the guy sorts it out for you.

After a full week of contacting my agent at origin and here, and after both my agents contacting everyone they could to try and get the issue resolved nothing was done. My agent here gave me the details of the company that issued the charge and the MD, rang him, and it was sorted out an hour later.

I came very close to paying the full amount out of desperation, glad I waited and and got a positive result..got the charges down from about 1500 to 250 plus my own agents fee of circa 150.

edit: just to pint out, it's unlikely your Irish agent is charging you this fee, the shipping company, or some other company along the way will be charging you this, and your Irish agent is just passing on the charge.

Get on yo your Irish agent and ask what the story is and see if they can fight your corner for you.

Seems convenient that all your charges are based on weight, whereas mine were on CBM...looks like they are trying to screw you for sure..unless it is normal practice to pay extra fees for very heavy loads, I'm not sure..

91011

As Rudolf says the ONLY way to do shipping from Far East is by controlling it completely this end and to do this use a local agent / freight compnay.

I use DSV for everything - (my offices are 100 yards away from them) no-one is too small to be a client of a freight agent.

I believe Rudolf is an agent too and has helped many people here on boards.

But NEVER NEVER NEVER allow a chinese company to organise transport - always ask for FOB pricing.

declan37

cojomo2 wrote: »

Hi there,

my advice to you would be to try an get your agents (at origin and here in Dublin) to put pressure on whichever company is issueing these charges to reduce them.

Failing that, find out the name and the MD of the company that has issued the charges, contact him and explain your situation and be nice and polite and hope the guy sorts it out for you.

After a full week of contacting my agent at origin and here, and after both my agents contacting everyone they could to try and get the issue resolved nothing was done. My agent here gave me the details of the company that issued the charge and the MD, rang him, and it was sorted out an hour later.

I came very close to paying the full amount out of desperation, glad I waited and and got a positive result..got the charges down from about 1500 to 250 plus my own agents fee of circa 150.

edit: just to pint out, it's unlikely your Irish agent is charging you this fee, the shipping company, or some other company along the way will be charging you this, and your Irish agent is just passing on the charge.

Get on yo your Irish agent and ask what the story is and see if they can fight your corner for you.

Seems convenient that all your charges are based on weight, whereas mine were on CBM...looks like they are trying to screw you for sure..unless it is normal practice to pay extra fees for very heavy loads, I'm not sure..

thanks cojomo,
thanks for your help
im emailing the agent here to try find out the details of whose charging this fee, fingers crossed, good you got your sorted, i know now never to this again lesson learned
best
declan

RUDOLF289

declan37 wrote: »

The same thing is happening to me.
ive ordered limestone, stone from china. its on the water now arrival time est. jan 1st
heres what the irish delivery agent is looking for.
Frt: Prepaid
Agency Fee: $80.00
Customs Clearance: €65
Handling Fee: $85 per tonne = $612.00 (7,200.00 tonne 4.27cbm)
Terminal Handling Charge: $60per tonne = $432.00
Admin/IPS Fee: $50.00

i can believe it. did you find a way around it, is it possible to change the irish delivery agent on thew B/L.
any help would be really appreciated, what a country
all the best
declan

Hello Declan37,

You will have a major battle on your hands to reduce the costs.

In relation to China, it is the carrier that agrees an unrealistically low rate for groupage / lcl shipments with the exporters in China. Dare I say it, some exporters engage in a "Dutch" auction ( ..... ) and the only way for Chinese groupage carriers to capture the prepaid shipments is to quote well below market rates. The Chinese groupage carriers then have to make up the difference (usually plus a healthy margin) by instructing the agent at destination to collect a China Import Service Fee. Although looking at charges you list, the agents at destination are getting "cute" by not mentioning that ficticious charge any longer because it is a growing bone of contention. They just roll it into what are known as "Destination Charges" such as Terminal Handling, Handling Fees etc.

Just by way of comparisson, these would have been the local charges you should be paying - if you arrange the shipping from this end.

Handling (THC/Depot Handling) - Euro 55.00 / Euro 65.00 per 1000 kgs or 3 cubic meters (it varies from agent to agent, you are charged on the weight of the cargo in view of the density)
Agency fee € 60 to € 70 per shipment
ISPS (Port security fee) € 3.50 to € 6.00 per shipment
Customs Clearance € 60 - € 70 per shipment

Based on the charges you outline you will pay € 1239.00
Based on the (maximum) charges listed by me you should be paying € 614.00 (Minimum € 519.50). The difference being € 625 or Us$ 840 aprox (based on the maximum charges outlined - hope everybody can follow the calculations.

I reckon your supplier has paid no more than Us$ 400/450 for the shipment (depending on the port of origin) Depending on the origin he should have paid between Us$ 720 to Us$ 975.00.

In relation to the structure of the charges, as outlined above, they are usually levied per 1000 kgs or 3 cubic meter, whichever is the higher. Because your cargo is very heavy you will be charged on weight.

Please be aware that once the shipment has left China, you are locked into whatever arrangements your supplier in China has made. It simply will not be possible to move away to another agent in Dublin. Part of the charges levied will be retained by the Irish agent, part of the charges have to be remitted back to the Chinese Groupage carrier at origin.

First step is to go back to your supplier in China. Especially if you have an ongoing relationship with them, tell them you will not place any future orders with them if they don't get a significant reduction of the charges.

Second step is to identify the Irish Agent. Contact them and let them know that you are not prepared to pay these charges. If you don't get any satisfaction, get your solicitor to write them a strongly worded letter, threathening to take them to court (you still have time on your hand)

Third Step is to publish the name of the company that issued the Bill of Lading and their Irish agents on boards.ie (in this thread). I certainly would be happy to blog about it, circulate it on Facebook and Twitter and any other internet forum.

Also, contact the Irish Forwarders Association and let them know what is happening (can PM you the contact details).

As I said to Cojomo2, this has to stop. The cases that show up on boards.ie are only the tip of the proverbial iceberg. It's high time we brought the Iceberg and the ship (i.e. the carriers that engage in this kind of practice) on the same course and sink them!

Feel free to contact me if there is anything you think I can do for you

Best regards,
Rudolf289

declan37

RUDOLF289 wrote: »

Hello Declan37,

You will have a major battle on your hands to reduce the costs.

In relation to China, it is the carrier that agrees an unrealistically low rate for groupage / lcl shipments with the exporters in China. Dare I say it, some exporters engage in a "Dutch" auction ( ..... ) and the only way for Chinese groupage carriers to capture the prepaid shipments is to quote well below market rates. The Chinese groupage carriers then have to make up the difference (usually plus a healthy margin) by instructing the agent at destination to collect a China Import Service Fee. Although looking at charges you list, the agents at destination are getting "cute" by not mentioning that ficticious charge any longer because it is a growing bone of contention. They just roll it into what are known as "Destination Charges" such as Terminal Handling, Handling Fees etc.

Just by way of comparisson, these would have been the local charges you should be paying - if you arrange the shipping from this end.

Handling (THC/Depot Handling) - Euro 55.00 / Euro 65.00 per 1000 kgs or 3 cubic meters (it varies from agent to agent, you are charged on the weight of the cargo in view of the density)
Agency fee € 60 to € 70 per shipment
ISPS (Port security fee) € 3.50 to € 6.00 per shipment
Customs Clearance € 60 - € 70 per shipment

Based on the charges you outline you will pay € 1239.00
Based on the (maximum) charges listed by me you should be paying € 614.00 (Minimum € 519.50). The difference being € 625 or Us$ 840 aprox (based on the maximum charges outlined - hope everybody can follow the calculations.

I reckon your supplier has paid no more than Us$ 400/450 for the shipment (depending on the port of origin) Depending on the origin he should have paid between Us$ 720 to Us$ 975.00.

In relation to the structure of the charges, as outlined above, they are usually levied per 1000 kgs or 3 cubic meter, whichever is the higher. Because your cargo is very heavy you will be charged on weight.

Please be aware that once the shipment has left China, you are locked into whatever arrangements your supplier in China has made. It simply will not be possible to move away to another agent in Dublin. Part of the charges levied will be retained by the Irish agent, part of the charges have to be remitted back to the Chinese Groupage carrier at origin.

First step is to go back to your supplier in China. Especially if you have an ongoing relationship with them, tell them you will not place any future orders with them if they don't get a significant reduction of the charges.

Second step is to identify the Irish Agent. Contact them and let them know that you are not prepared to pay these charges. If you don't get any satisfaction, get your solicitor to write them a strongly worded letter, threathening to take them to court (you still have time on your hand)

Third Step is to publish the name of the company that issued the Bill of Lading and their Irish agents on boards.ie (in this thread). I certainly would be happy to blog about it, circulate it on Facebook and Twitter and any other internet forum.

Also, contact the Irish Forwarders Association and let them know what is happening (can PM you the contact details).

As I said to Cojomo2, this has to stop. The cases that show up on boards.ie are only the tip of the proverbial iceberg. It's high time we brought the Iceberg and the ship (i.e. the carriers that engage in this kind of practice) on the same course and sink them!

Feel free to contact me if there is anything you think I can do for you

Best regards,
Rudolf289

hi rudolf,
thanks so much for all the info every step you've outlined i will be taking each step you suggested, ive already contacted the supplier in china,
i already paid $520 for the shipment already and as expecting to pay around 500 more once it arrived, then what ever haulage delivery charges to me here.
im about to contact the agent here also and let them know i want the
charges adjusted to the real rate, if they dont i'll be sending them a letter from my solicitor.

also could you let me know the Irish Forwarders Association details.

the companies are
Foreign Agent: KLN Container Line Limited (KERRY EAS LOGISTICS)
Delivery Agent: JENKINSON AGENCY LIMITED

im fuming about this and ready to fight it,
thanks again for all your help
declan