3 easy way to get our economy going!!

greendog34

1* income tax, we pay to many indirect taxes, 1% here 2% there, lets say the government said we will take 35% of your wages in tax but after that u wont have to put your hand in your pocket again,
2* any new company that comes to Ireland now and provides 250 new jobs will get a 10 year corporation tax of 4%
3* Ireland is suppose to have vast oil and gas off the west coast, lets not give them away for free, and do what they did in Norway and Mideast, we have the people to run a Efficient oil company or we can bring in the people!!!

Tigger

1 best idea ever if by best idea you mean is be a lot better off and lots of lower paid people wouldn't
2 a good idea but Europe won't let us
3 do we have the skills nessiciary? Ive never understood why we don't do the nct or the motorways and toll bridges ourselves so I couldn't fathom how that would work

RichardAnd

greendog34 wrote: »

3* Ireland is suppose to have vast oil and gas off the west coast, lets not give them away for free, and do what they did in Norway and Mideast, we have the people to run a Efficient oil company or we can bring in the people!!!

A week can't pass on these boards without this coming up. There is gas there but not anywhere near as much as what Shell to Sea are telling people. Further, gas under the sea is worthless and we really don't have what it takes to go and get it.

This tread is a non starter. The people of Ireland need to realise that there is not always a quick, easy fix to things and in the case of our current mess, that is a lesson more true than ever.

greendog34

correct 1 in Germany and France they pay allot of income tax but they get alot back for it, the richer may face paying more, but i do believe everyone should pay taxes, but the cost of living has to fall here, so its cheaper to live on less,

as for 2, we have the EU over a barrel they want us to get back on our feet, so they can;t penalize us for trying to get ourselves back on our feet, maybe in 5 years time this would be impossible but right now its a golden Opportunity

also reform the debt laws, bankruptcy should be easy to access, like us and uk , rather then something of shame and cost a fortune, its should been seen as a steeping stone, to use and move on with your life, debt laws is badly needed reform!

mikemac

greendog34 wrote: »

also reform the debt laws, bankruptcy should be easy to access, like us and uk , rather then something of shame and cost a fortune, its should been seen as a steeping stone, to use and move on with your life, debt laws is badly needed reform!

We can't encourage these madcap schemes like this over in Accomadation forum

Has to be consequences though I'm not sure where the balance is between draconian and widespread jingle mail

Something to be looked at anyway

greendog34

A system which was last changed in 1940 is entirely inadequate to deal with the realities of modern-day credit,The prison system and the courts system are being used in the course of civil debt collection process, which means people end up in jail without ever committing even the smallest of offences, 2009, 276 people were sent to jail for an average of 27 days each last year for failing to pay debts, and that this did not accord with Irish constitutional guarantees of fair procedure.There was a feeling that prison was a good thing because it forced people to pay their debts, but it doesn’t!!

Monty Burnz

I was under the impression that you can't be jailed for debt, but you CAN be jailed for contempt of court. This will happen if the court comes up with a reasonable figure based on your income and necessary expenditures that you must pay your debtors. In which case, you be jailed because you won't pay, not because you can't pay.

Is that not correct?

johnnyskeleton

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I was under the impression that you can't be jailed for debt, but you CAN be jailed for contempt of court. This will happen if the court comes up with a reasonable figure based on your income and necessary expenditures that you must pay your debtors. In which case, you be jailed because you won't pay, not because you can't pay.

Is that not correct?

Yes.

Also, in several other European Countries dishonestly not paying a debt back is a criminal offence in its own right, so I'm not sure that our system is all that different to other countries.

That said, there should be specific exhaustive terms such that the sheriff can seize goods, property can be recovered and/or income can be garnished before imprisonment takes place. In such a scenario though, I'm not sure that anyone would ever go to jail except in very unusual circumstances.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I think number 2 is a great idea. Would europe be able to stop us doing it if they can't force us to increase our current low level?

johnnyskeleton

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I think number 2 is a great idea. Would europe be able to stop us doing it if they can't force us to increase our current low level?

The problem is that we have agreed to a minimum 10% Corporation Tax so we can reduce it down to 10% but no further without flagrantly abandoning our agreement with the EU.

wonderfulname

RichardAnd wrote: »

This tread is a non starter. The people of Ireland need to realise that there is not always a quick, easy fix to things and in the case of our current mess, that is a lesson more true than ever.

I cannot understand how the government is acting as though quick fixes will sort us out. Ok I'm no economist, but would it not look better to the outside world if we reformed the system at a cost, showing that we were committed to real change, and that we'll be running things better in the future than creating a god awful cycle of overspending in the good times and underspending in the bad? Face it, the next time this country gets money whoever is in control of it will be another McCreevy, and that money will go down the drain.

bob5666

1 promote enterprise try be the next nokia facebook of the world stop working for multinational and become one ourselves
2 keep costs down like energy stop relying on oil and such fuels adds 2 inflation and also its all money going out off country 2 sum arab and by going green you make jobs wit that money
3cut spending in public sector wages the rest of the countrys wages will fellow and make the country more competitive again

thetonynator

greendog34 wrote: »

1* income tax, we pay to many indirect taxes, 1% here 2% there, lets say the government said we will take 35% of your wages in tax but after that u wont have to put your hand in your pocket again,
2* any new company that comes to Ireland now and provides 250 new jobs will get a 10 year corporation tax of 4%
3* Ireland is suppose to have vast oil and gas off the west coast, lets not give them away for free, and do what they did in Norway and Mideast, we have the people to run a Efficient oil company or we can bring in the people!!!

1st: People would be in uproar with extra income tax, the % here and few % there are nice ''easy'' ways of taking your money with the bottom line being much harder to see.

2nd: 4% is too far, 8 - 10% would be sufficent, but we would also need to give it to companies already here that expand by100 jobs or 200 jobs, to prevent them leaving.

3rd: When oil reaches $200 a barrel, then maybe it would be worth our while getting it. Until then it is much cheaper import it.

ISAW

greendog34 wrote: »

1* income tax, we pay to many indirect taxes, 1% here 2% there, lets say the government said we will take 35% of your wages in tax but after that u wont have to put your hand in your pocket again,

How would yo fund local government?
And you realise you would either break EU law or oput yourdself into a hole of reducing VAT and Corporation Tax etc. to zero per cent?

2* any new company that comes to Ireland now and provides 250 new jobs will get a 10 year corporation tax of 4%

Against EU law. We already agreed to phase out Shannon etc. and increase from 10 % to 12.5% when almost everyone else has 33%.

3* Ireland is suppose to have vast oil and gas off the west coast, lets not give them away for free, and do what they did in Norway and Mideast, we have the people to run a Efficient oil company or we can bring in the people!!!

No we don't! No we can't! And if we tax oil companies say 50 per cent on oil then 50 per cent of nothing is nothing.

By the way "supposed to have" is not a way to run an economy which is paying off 50 billion in debt. "Ill pay your back next week when the horse I bet on runs" isnt a normal practice in International finance.

ISAW

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

The problem is that we have agreed to a minimum 10% Corporation Tax so we can reduce it down to 10% but no further without flagrantly abandoning our agreement with the EU.

Our agreement with the EU was to bring it up from 10 to 12.5!

partyatmygaff

I really like the sound of idea No.2 but no way would the EU allow it.

There could be a workaround though. Let's say that a company starting up in Ireland and creating 100 jobs is made pay 10% corporation tax. Instead of lowering the corporation tax directly, why not give say 50% of the corporation tax received back as a grant for the first ten or so years of a company's start up?

For example it could work as follows

• All companies pay 10% in corporation tax per annum
• Those creating 0-100 jobs get a yearly grant for ten years worth 15% of their corporation tax paid
• Those creating 100-250 jobs get a yearly grant for ten years worth 30% of their corporation tax paid
• Those creating >250 jobs get a yearly grant for ten years worth 50% of their corporation tax paid

So a practical example, a corporation opens up in Ireland and creates 250 jobs in the process. They have a taxable profit of €10m. Therefore they pay a corporation tax of €1m per annum leaving their net profit at €9m. The government receives the €1m per annum and issues the company with a grant of €500,000 therefore leaving the corporation with a net profit of €9.5m. The process continues for ten or so years. Therefore, effectively, the corporation pays corporation tax at a rate of 5% for ten years.

Good idea?

pigeonbutler

ISAW wrote: »

Our agreement with the EU was to bring it up from 10 to 12.5!

Not so. We agreed to phase out the favourable regime of corporation tax which applies to manufacturing activities until the end of this year and have the same rate for all trading activities. We are free to set Corporation Tax at whatever rate we like. As far as I recall, Cyprus and one or two of the Eastern European countries have a 10% rate.

aidan24326

Tigger wrote: »

3 do we have the skills nessiciary? Ive never understood why we don't do the nct or the motorways and toll bridges ourselves so I couldn't fathom how that would work

Of course we could've done those things ourselves, but the FF government preferred to dish out juicy contracts to favoured people, simple as that. No doubt the kickbacks were good.

greendog34 wrote: »

2* any new company that comes to Ireland now and provides 250 new jobs will get a 10 year corporation tax of 4%.

Great idea in theory, 7 or 8% would be low enough to attract people though, 4 is too low. Would Europe allow it? If we could sell it as something that would genuinely create desperately needed jobs and stimulate our economy then they just might. There's never been a better time to try it. The EU/ECB/IMF aren't holding all the aces here, we have them over a barrel too with the potential mess we'd create if we reneged on our bank guarantee.

As for the oil and gas issue, we really don't have the capacity to do it. We haven't got the technology, the expertise nor the money.

Lantus

Hate to point this out but it was massive tax breaks in property and hotels that helped create a bubble and over abundance of said problem.

Plus we have huge corps here and no real income from them. It's not a long term solution and wont create stability.

Becoming more competative by reducing our costs should be a priorty and is already happening.

ISAW

pigeonbutler wrote: »

Not so. We agreed to phase out the favourable regime of corporation tax which applies to manufacturing activities until the end of this year and have the same rate for all trading activities.

Yes IIR the deal was done by Bertie and the then commission president Prodi. the only other people in the room were their secretaries - both of whom were Irish. Odd that an Italian President IIR David O Sullivan was it? didn't pick an Italian he was the first not to pick someone from his own county.

Found it! Back n 2005 I wrote this:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3420699&postcount=79

LOL. forgot about that. From my other reply two messages later I recall I had the cancer at the time and not the economy.

We are free to set Corporation Tax at whatever rate we like. As far as I recall, Cyprus and one or two of the Eastern European countries have a 10% rate.

As I recall the deal was we got rid of the ten and Bertie said okay we will move it up to 12.5 but we will bring down all other business to 12.5 as well.

Other countries that got favourable rates did it as part of their entry package to an expanded union. the already in countries have been trying to harmonise it at their levels. It was one of the scare tactics evoked to get people to vote No to the Lisbon treaty.

Post Lisbon and we still have 12.5 per cent.

ISAW

Lantus wrote: »

Hate to point this out but it was massive tax breaks in property and hotels that helped create a bubble and over abundance of said problem.

Yes but they have been removed.

Plus we have huge corps here and no real income from them. It's not a long term solution and wont create stability.

Yo would be wrong there! WE make 12.5 per cent and not 33 per cent. a little more then a third of what we might make . But we would make 33 per cent of zero if they moved somewhere else because of the 33 per cent!
And we benefit from high skilled employment and the income tax which comes from that.

Becoming more competative by reducing our costs should be a priorty and is already happening.

Not in the public service! Wher is the accountability and the benchmarking.
I doint mean in pay - a benchmark which does not exist since they are ooverpayed at high levels but in productivity. Such productivity measures just dont exist in the public sector!