Most ground breaking Gun invented

Collioure

When looking back through the last 100 years or so what was the most ground breaking gun (machine/ sub machine/ rifle / pistol)....would like to get people views here....would it be

MG 42 (put the fear of God into the allies with it's unbeleivable rate of fire)
Colt Peacemaker
Winchester 1873 lever action
AK 47 (Is this only a reincarnation of the Sturmgewehr)
AR 15 / M16
Gatling
Tommy sub machine gun
BAR (Browning Automatic rifle)

4gun

should be in shooting forum ...or military ...not hunting

johngalway

Bouncing this over to Military as it's definitely not Hunting, and the firearms listed wouldn't be used that much in Shooting sports, AR variants and the Winchester aside.

concussion

As you go back, everything is a development of what came before - for example, the MG42 was an excellent weapon, but not in a different league to previous machine guns. The machine gun in WW1 is said to have changed warfare forever, but these weapons were developed before the war began and, to a certain extent, the doctrine hadn't caught up. Personally, I would say that the development of a single unitary cartridge was one of the most important (military) inventions of the last few centuries.

It wasn't me!

concussion wrote: »

As you go back, everything is a development of what came before - for example, the MG42 was an excellent weapon, but not in a different league to previous machine guns. The machine gun in WW1 is said to have changed warfare forever, but these weapons were developed before the war began and, to a certain extent, the doctrine hadn't caught up. Personally, I would say that the development of a single unitary cartridge was one of the most important (military) inventions of the last few centuries.

Particularly if you could specify the unitary cartridge burning smokeless powder. Difficult to say really, but I'd nearly attribute it all to Peter Paul Mauser, with the development of a rifle firing a smallbore, smokeless cartridge which could be rapidly reloaded from charging clips. I mean, we're still trying, and for the most part failing, to beat that design, over a hundred years later. I mean, sure, other actions work perfectly well, but none of them are better at that job.

firefly08

concussion is right about the cartridge.

The Gatling gun was pretty original. The BAR was a bit different from anything else at the time, in that it was a lightweight machine gun and could be fired easily from the shoulder. Actually I am reading a book by a guy who helped evaluate machine guns for the first world war, and he says the BAR caused a major stir when it first appeared, and was adopted by the army on the spot. (Hatcher's Notebook)

The Tommy gun was nothing new - the Germans had pioneered the sub machine gun before anyone else and that's what inspired the Thompson.

The Sturmgewehr was original but failed to be ground-breaking because apparently Hitler didn't like it.

Some other guns that changed the game on account of being the first of their kind would be the Maxim machine gun (the first truly automatic machine gun), the Winchester Model 1897 pump action shotgun or "trench gun" (the first shotgun adopted as a military weapon afaik) and the M1 Garand, (being a semi auto in a bolt action world)

Liam_D

John Moses Brownings 1911 has to be in there. 100 years old next year and still as popular as ever.

ReacherCreature

Collioure, your time frame is too restrictive. You've to go back further. Previous to that was the invention of the musket for example, hugely important and possibly fundamental. The development of a repeating weapon paved the way for everything that would come.

Stovepipe

Hi there,
Groundbreaking is hard to call.Do you include the MG42 simply for being a fast-firer? Remember, most air forces at the time had equally fast-firing machine guns, such as the Russian Shkas.Infantry machine guns fired about 450-600 rpm, to balance between consumption and overheating.I think the MG42's biggest contribution was it's manufacturing methods and it's feed/locking system, which also applies to the MP40, with plastic and stamped parts.
The Mauser bolt action speaks for itself.In the case of American arms, the BAR was good when it came out but the Bren and it's equivalents were better.I'd say Eugene Stoner's AR series made a huge impact in the post WW II age. I think most of the better developments are cartridge or sight sytem related.
regards
Stovepipe

Delancey

What about the M1 Garand rifle ? Worlds first standard issue semi-automatic weapon , highly regarded by those who used it , reliable and robust ( if not a little on the heavy side ) - I think over 6 million were made.....

punchdrunk

It's got to be the sniper rifle,as it's mere existence changed the way war is fought,one single sniper can hold hundreds of soldiers at bay
As a ground weapon it's psychological impact is second only to the tank
From the American civil war until now it's still very relevant on the battlefield

However which exact sniper rifle it is requires a poll!

firefly08

However which exact sniper rifle it is requires a poll!

Thing is, the practice of sniping existed for a long time before anyone "invented" a sniper rifle. Until relatively recently, snipers mostly just used ordinary rifles afaik. Certainly, the most famous snipers I've heard of did. The effect of a sniper seems to me to be more about their tactics then their rifles. So I wouldn't count sniper rifles in general as a ground breaking invention - but maybe there are specialized ones that push the envelope?

Mahatma coat

The first one obviously, at the point of the first Cannon appearing on the battlefield Tactics Changed forever, any further developments since are just buildin on this initial deployment, Grtanted Manic may not see a similarity between his Abrams and a Conquistidors Miqulett but they are one and the same in the eyes of the people that dont have them

AIR-AUSSIE

AA-12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c

deise go deo

I would say the Prussian Needel gun. It brough Rifel's into the modern age.
It signaled then end on Napolionaic Lines and signaled the start of the tactacal use of professional troops on the ground in the modern sense.

ReacherCreature

AIR-AUSSIE wrote: »

AA-12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c

Joke right?

xflyer

The Maxim machine gun. It changed everything. Not least in WW1 where all sides used a variant. Warfare changed after that.

Earlier machine guns needed manual effort. With the Maxim you pulled the trigger and it fired until the belt ran out.

concussion

It must be said though, that the doctrine of the time allowed the MG to become so devastating. It's very easy to destroy companies, or even battalions at a time, when they are walking across a muddy field towards your lines.

GreeBo

I think Metal Storm and its ilk will be the future of automated defense/attack

Mahatma coat

I dunno about Metal Storm etc, It may be a Weapons manufacturers wet dream to sell a unit that fires 5million bullets at a pop, but its not a practical weapon for a prolonged conflict as the support logistics would be mind boggling, The move towards non projectile ranged weapons is the way I see things going

ReacherCreature

GreeBo wrote: »

I think Metal Storm and its ilk will be the future of automated defense/attack

It hasn't been produced and unitlised enough in conflict to come under qualification of 'ground-breaking' in my opinion. A weapon like the musket, semi-automatic rifle, machine gun etc. already have a history and pedigree to be inclusive in the discussion.

GreeBo

ReacherCreature wrote: »

It hasn't been produced and unitlised enough in conflict to come under qualification of 'ground-breaking' in my opinion. A weapon like the musket, semi-automatic rifle, machine gun etc. already have a history and pedigree to be inclusive in the discussion.

But that logic excludes any new developments then...by definition ground-breaking means that at one stage there was nothing else in the world like it...

ReacherCreature

GreeBo wrote: »

But that logic excludes any new developments then...by definition ground-breaking means that at one stage there was nothing else in the world like it...

Throughout this thread no modern firearms have been mentioned, its been: masuer, maxim, musket, repeating rifles, machine guns, M-1, cannon, napoleonic weapons. I believe the weapons should be 'tested' thoroughly i.e used in war, conflict. No point having a potential ground-breaking weapon and turns out its ineffective, not saying that's what Metal Storm is.

BostonB

xflyer wrote: »

The Maxim machine gun. It changed everything. Not least in WW1 where all sides used a variant. Warfare changed after that.

Earlier machine guns needed manual effort. With the Maxim you pulled the trigger and it fired until the belt ran out.

+1 Maxim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_gun