Melodyne - does it do what it say on the tin or is it rubbish

krd

If just downloaded the trial version of Melodyne. (it's the full trial for a month)

I've played around with a piece of acoustic guitar audio I've recorded myself.

Melodyne only picks up some of the notes, and when I go alter anything even slightly I get terrible artefacting. Is it really worth the bother.

The other thing. When I loaded different clips I'd made, precise segments of bars, melodyne went and decided the time and the start of the bar - and put it in the wrong place.

Does it really work like in the videos. Or is it actually very limited and can only handle very clean notes and playing. Because in that case - what's the point?

SonasRec

This video should answer your note detection problems

http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=videos&L=1%25C3%2582#top

I've used it for a few years & it ain't as good and glitch free as the videos make out but I have found it invaluable to be able to change pitch, timing and volume in a simple to use package. I rarely use DNA though and mostly stick to monophonic sources.

fitz

One of the best uses I've had for it was correcting a note in a bass melody which was wrong, but that wasn't caught during tracking. Saved me having to re-track altogether. Just moved the note, job done.

Like SonasRec, I only use it monophonically and it excels there, more natural sounding results than Autotune.
I don't use DNA, so can't comment on that.

krd

Yeah, well, I was really hoping DNA would work.

I've just started recording my acoustic guitar playing. It's not that my timing is brutal - but the style I play in I just do unusual rhythmic things while I'm playing - Just little things - it sounds more interesting when you hear it,say if I'm playing for other people, just small variations - but for a recording, any timing glitches are really noticeable. If melodyne is really only good for fixing a single note and the polyphony and quantisation doesn't really work, it's not really any good for me. When I played with the pitch correction it gave me very noticeable artefacting. Possible I'm using it wrong.

Damn - means I'm going to have to focus on getting my timing spot on.

DamagedTrax

DNA is pretty good. not perfect by a long shot but if you learn how to use it then you can get decent enough results. the trick is to learn how notes work when you shift them. sometimes you need to fiddle with the transitions between notes, sometimes a little less vibrato, sometimes the timbre settings etc etc.

Bluebirdstudios

Don't use it that freqently. But for single note stuff it proved to be pretty clean in operation no weird stuff/artifacts, unless used too extremely. The DNA has a bit to go , in Melodyne's favour they are very good at bug fixes so I don't think it will be very long before they get it to work better.
All in all its does what its say on the tin.
-Declan

SeanHurley

krd wrote: »

Yeah, well, I was really hoping DNA would work.

I've just started recording my acoustic guitar playing. It's not that my timing is brutal - but the style I play in I just do unusual rhythmic things while I'm playing - Just little things - it sounds more interesting when you hear it,say if I'm playing for other people, just small variations - but for a recording, any timing glitches are really noticeable. If melodyne is really only good for fixing a single note and the polyphony and quantisation doesn't really work, it's not really any good for me. When I played with the pitch correction it gave me very noticeable artefacting. Possible I'm using it wrong.

Damn - means I'm going to have to focus on getting my timing spot on.

Have you tried using the elastic audio in pro tools? It can be effective enough for timing issues (as long as the timing isn't wildly out)

I think the big thing with DNA is making sure that that the note detection is correct. In my experience the note detection is normally not 100% correct ecpecially with anything as harmonically complex as guitar. If the detection is off you will definitely get aretfacts. There is a bit in the manual about manually correcting the detection which in my expereince helps. It is what it is tho and is never going to be artefact free.

IMO tho Melodyne is a great tool and I prefer it to autotune for tuning vocals.

Helix

you really shouldnt be getting artefacts unless youre moving stuff a lot (more than 3 semitones up or down would be my limit)

dna shouldnt be necessary for you if youre just recording guitar either btw. ive edited guitar fine without it before

krd

Sean, I don't have pro-tools. At the minute I'm going to stick to Abelton to see How far I can take it.

I've got the full working Melodyne trial for 30 days. I don't know if I'll master it in that time. It's really resource hungry. There's a little freeware auto tune plug-in I have some where that works nearly in real time - with not much artefacting.

Back to the drawing board.

SeanHurley

krd wrote: »

Sean, I don't have pro-tools. At the minute I'm going to stick to Abelton to see How far I can take it.

I've got the full working Melodyne trial for 30 days. I don't know if I'll master it in that time. It's really resource hungry. There's a little freeware auto tune plug-in I have some where that works nearly in real time - with not much artefacting.

Back to the drawing board.

Cool, by chance I ended up using melodyne quite extensively last night on vocal and bass guitar. I was able to fix the timing and tuning on the (poorly delivered) vocal and achieve fantastic results. With the bass I was trying to sort out timing and I actually preferred the manual edits I did to tighten it.

I tend to tune/fix timing and print it rather than having it as a plugin running though the song.

Doesn't Abelton have some sort of warp marker thingymebobs for time-stretching etc?

digitaldeath

I don't use Melodyne. It's not sample accurate.

krd

SeanHurley wrote: »

Cool, by chance I ended up using melodyne quite extensively last night on vocal and bass guitar. I was able to fix the timing and tuning on the (poorly delivered) vocal and achieve fantastic results. With the bass I was trying to sort out timing and I actually preferred the manual edits I did to tighten it.

I tend to tune/fix timing and print it rather than having it as a plugin running though the song.

Doesn't Abelton have some sort of warp marker thingymebobs for time-stretching etc?

Warp is not really something you use for fixing timing. It's great for using samples for other songs - but even then you really have to cut your loop before hand. Warp can do some undesirable things as well.

I can kind of manage to do what I need to do. I've just started to record audio on Ableton in the last few days (there were problems - won't go into). I've recording a little voice and guitar. I wouldn't have any use for the autotune on my voice - I'm in tune as much as I would want to be. My theory on auto tuning vocals is not to touch them unless they actually sound out. The auto tuner may pick up a bend as out - I think that's how you really notice auto tune on a vocal - you're expecting some kind of bend in a long tones and it just sounds like an electric flute.

My real "problem" (it's not really a problem - just something I have to work on) The timing in my acoustic guitar playing is slightly off. This in itself is not a bad thing as most of the time it sounds fine - like someone playing an instrument - I'd like to preserve the looseness - but - occasionally the timing is just a little too off and I was hoping with Melodyne DNA, It'd be able to slot the bits that weren't working into place. Anyway, didn't work as straight forward as the videos gave the impression they would.

It really just means I have to work on getting better takes.

krd

Actually I think Ableton Warp may work. May take a little practice using the markers.

rcaz

...Are you looking for a computer program to improve your playing?

krd

El Pr0n wrote: »

...Are you looking for a computer program to improve your playing?

Are you being a smart arse?

I suppose you can play the guitar solo from Sweet child O mine note perfect and that makes you a genius.

Some playing is harder to get the timing right on than other playing. For instance loosely strumming an acoustic guitar.

Acoustic guitar sounds crap if it's too tight. (Unless you're doing something like Jose Gonzales but that's something else).

You are not a good guitarist if every time you strum it sounds precisely the same as the last one. You're boring. You're playing will sound smooth and flawless BUT will have no real character.

Good strumming should be a little loose (in the pocket - that's a drumming term for being slightly off). As for recording playing loose, you're very likely to hit minor timing flubs - just bits that sound too out.

Strumming is actually really complicated. It's like putting on your trousers in the morning. If people are pulling on their trousers and they think of the complexity and balance required they usually fall over. An idiot friend of mine end up getting stitches on his forehead when he fell over while putting on his trousers.

I've just got my meager setup working for recording audio in the last few days. I've been recording bits of guitar. Some bits are in, some bits are out. Then there are some bits that do something really interesting beyond the control of my playing. Some nice undertones appearing in one bar that doesn't happen quite the same in the other recordings of the same chord sequence.

I think Christy Moore has a great style of guitar playing. It sounds good on live recordings. He speeds up and slows down. Flubs all over the place. But that can sound awful on a recording. We're just so used to hearing note perfect plays on recorded music any deviation sticks out like a sore thumb.

So Donal Lunny won't let Christy play guitar on any recordings he does with him.

And there is an element of trickery to getting these recordings to sound loose but flawless. I've seen Donal Lunny play his bazuki live and he sounds good but still plenty of flubs - but on a recording all the flubs are gone - no bits where the strings have been hit just a little too hard and ring against the fret board, every muffle and scrape sounds like it should fit and no pieces that don't.

That is the trick - very simple seeming playing that sounds loose and good the whole way through.

So what if you can play Paradise City without making a single flub - so the f what.

old gregg

one of the folks on here (hi Ro) suggested to me that I'd enjoy using Melodyne to manipulate my field recordings of natural sounds and even export field recordings out as midi files. I have to say that for what I'm doing Melodyne is pretty useful.

Were I using it to tune an attempt at 'Smoke On The Water' then maybe not

madtheory

krd wrote: »

So Donal Lunny won't let Christy play guitar on any recordings he does with him.

Is that true? I've often thought that a lot of Irish folk artists are over produced. Over produced in the sense that "production" means perfection that sacrifices personality. Which I strongly object to. The likes of John Spillane and Christy Moore are always infinitely better live. That seems crazy to me.

PaulBrewer

I worked with Christy and Donal on some recordings in the late 80s and Christy certainly played on those.

SonasRec

I worked on a track recently with Christy & John,(Christy on bodhran & vocals, John on guitar & vocals and Johnny McCarthy on fiddle) set up live, two takes, job done. Couple of small overdubs after, but very simple production. Agreed, these guys main asset is their personality, but when the record button is pressed, they can deliver.

madtheory

Hmmm, I think their main asset is incredible song writing ability, and in John Spillane's case the addition of being a superb guitarist. The "personality" sometimes overshadows those particular skills I think. I can think of a lot of recordings where both of them deliver amazing emotional performances, but not one entire album.

krd

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I worked with Christy and Donal on some recordings in the late 80s and Christy certainly played on those.

This may be true. But Donal wouldn't let Christy play on the first Planxty record and Christy was upset about it.

And I heard Christy being interviewed on the radio for the his last album - he said the only guitar of his that was on the record was bleed they couldn't get rid of.

I don't really know. I'm not a pro - I don't believe though you can get a flawless take of the acoustic in one go - or not even flawless more something that sounds good. Recording is very unforgiving to even minor timing flaws and little flubs. And there are sounds you just don't have that much control over.