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breath tests

  • 15-11-2010 8:42pm
    #1
    Random
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,080 ✭✭✭✭


    just watching motorway patrol (it's new zealand police) there on channel one. they pull a guy and breathalye him and he's over the limit. they say they're taking him back to the station for the machine test there.

    your man grabs his takeaway mcdonalds from the car before getting into the patrol car. he's eating his burger / chips on the way to the station.

    is this likely to effect a breath test? i was under the impression that the police were supposed to stop you eating / drinking between the roadside test and the station one?

    thanks


Comments

  • #2
    source
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭source


    nil by mouth until the test is taken, don't know what the legislation is in NZ though.


  • #3
    Random
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,080 ✭✭✭✭Random


    i'm not looking for hard and fast legislation as such. i'm more looking for experience from general training or knowledge as to whether it would effect a reading in the station or effect a case in court and on what grounds (in very general terms).


  • #4
    source
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭source


    Random wrote: »
    i'm not looking for hard and fast legislation as such. i'm more looking for experience from general training or knowledge as to whether it would effect a reading in the station or effect a case in court and on what grounds (in very general terms).

    In this country, there has to be nil taken by mouth before an evidential breath test, so nothing taken between arrest and arrival at the station. There also has to be a 20 minute unbroken observation of the prisoner, generally in the station, before the test to prove nil by mouth. If this is not done then the case would not be watertight. As the test is a reading of the amount of alcohol on the breath then yes having other things on the breath will affect it and may mask it, which is why we don't allow it here.

    But again as I said earlier, that's the rules for Ireland. I don't know what the legislation for New Zealand says regarding drink driving so they may allow food to be taken.


  • #5
    Hooch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭Hooch


    foinse wrote: »
    nil by mouth until the test is taken, don't know what the legislation is in NZ though.

    Its a period of 20mins for nil by mouth in line with best international practice.

    Nil by mouth obs should begin at the station and not in the back of a patrol car as some members practice.....this is not best international practice unless it is day time and you can fully see the S/O all the time. Prisoners can have what they like until the 20 mins obs period


  • #6
    hobbitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43 ✭hobbitt


    nice guy always wrote: »
    Its a period of 20mins for nil by mouth in line with best international practice.

    Nil by mouth obs should begin at the station and not in the back of a patrol car as some members practice.....this is not best international practice unless it is day time and you can fully see the S/O all the time. Prisoners can have what they like until the 20 mins obs period

    They arn't allowed to smoke!


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  • #7
    Hooch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭Hooch


    hobbitt wrote: »
    They arn't allowed to smoke!

    They can smoke up until the 20 min obs period beings.......as I said!

    Then they can have nil by mouth....which includes food, smoke etc


  • #8
    hobbitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43 ✭hobbitt


    nice guy always wrote: »
    They can smoke up until the 20 min obs period beings.......as I said!

    Then they can have nil by mouth....which includes food, smoke etc

    A prisoner allowed to smoke? In the back of a patrol car? Never. A lit cigarette could be classed as an offensive weapon.

    In the USA, no prisoners are allowed to smoke anywhere, even on death row.

    A convicted murderer in Texas appealed to the Supreme Court about this ban, and lost. The Court ruled that smoking was bad for his health.

    This prisoner was subsequently executed, but was healthy when he died.


  • #9
    source
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭source


    nice guy always wrote: »
    Its a period of 20mins for nil by mouth in line with best international practice.

    Nil by mouth obs should begin at the station and not in the back of a patrol car as some members practice.....this is not best international practice unless it is day time and you can fully see the S/O all the time. Prisoners can have what they like until the 20 mins obs period

    I'm aware that 20 min obs begins at station, but my 49 prisoners get nothing from the moment the cuffs are on until the the test is over.


  • #10
    Hooch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭Hooch


    hobbitt wrote: »
    A prisoner allowed to smoke? In the back of a patrol car? Never. A lit cigarette could be classed as an offensive weapon.

    Who said they did smoke in the back of a car??

    hobbitt wrote: »
    In the USA, no prisoners are allowed to smoke anywhere, even on death row.

    A convicted murderer in Texas appealed to the Supreme Court about this ban, and lost. The Court ruled that smoking was bad for his health.

    This prisoner was subsequently executed, but was healthy when he died.

    Who cares what they do in the states?? How does that have anything to do with Ireland????
    foinse wrote: »
    I'm aware that 20 min obs begins at station, but my 49 prisoners get nothing from the moment the cuffs are on until the the test is over.

    Thats your personal judgement. Personally if a prisoner asks on the way back for a smoke i'll allow them one before entering the station, informing them that I dont have to allow them. Makes the process so much smoother.

    With all the 49s I have processed it is much easier to have a calm co operative suspect rather than a disruptive one. If something as easy as a 2 minute cig get that then so be it!


  • #11
    hobbitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43 ✭hobbitt


    Thats your personal judgement. Personally if a prisoner asks on the way back for a smoke i'll allow them one before entering the station, informing them that I dont have to allow them. Makes the process so much smoother.

    If he passes breathaliser, and you need to do a drugs test, allowing him to smoke after arrest might not look good in court.


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  • #12
    Hooch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭Hooch


    hobbitt wrote: »
    If he passes breathaliser, and you need to do a drugs test, allowing him to smoke after arrest might not look good in court.

    Again.....thats your personal judgement.

    Cite case law and we'll go with you......but before you go look.....there is none.

    If he passes the 13(1)(a) requirement and you revert to 13(1)(b) then smoking has absolutely no effect whatsoever.

    The 20 mins obs period is all that is needed to keep nil by mouth. Before this period, and after the specimens are given the prisoner can smoke to his hearts content.


  • #13
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Why would it not look good in court?

    Drugs tests are for cannabis and other illicit substances. I fail to see how a cigarrette would change this unless you know something I dont.

    Food or drink may dilute the alchol content of the PBT. I do know this because I sat in lockdown waiting for the work* PBT yesterday under instruction not to go and eat anything.

    *My firm conducts random alchol and drug testing.


  • #14
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    nice guy always wrote: »
    Its a period of 20mins for nil by mouth in line with best international practice.

    In line with the operational guideance for the Lion Intoxiliser 6000 (or whatever they call it). Different machines could have different operational guidelines, but it would probably be around the same thing.

    Eating food, as far as I know, can help increase the metabolic rate and thus potentially decrease or increase the blood alcohol level (depending on whether there was more alcohol in the stomach or already assimilated). My understanding is that if someone had a few shots of hard spirits just before they started driving, this might not be assimilated 20 minutes later. However, with food the stomach could assimilate it during that period or some such.


  • #15
    hobbitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43 ✭hobbitt


    Zambia232 wrote: »
    Why would it not look good in court?

    Drugs tests are for cannabis and other illicit substances. I fail to see how a cigarrette would change this unless you know something I dont.


    He could try to claim that the cigarette he smoked after being arrested was contaminated with cannabis.


  • #16
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    hobbitt wrote: »
    Zambia232 wrote: »
    Why would it not look good in court?

    Drugs tests are for cannabis and other illicit substances. I fail to see how a cigarrette would change this unless you know something I dont.


    He could try to claim that the cigarette he smoked after being arrested was contaminated with cannabis.
    Hmm so to get out of driving under the influence after you fail a PBT. You suddenly fear a drug test and light up a joint in the company of the accompanying Garda.

    While on route to the secondary test.

    It would be playing your hand a little early.


  • #17
    hobbitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43 ✭hobbitt


    Zambia232 wrote: »
    Hmm so to get out of driving under the influence after you fail a PBT. You suddenly fear a drug test and light up a joint in the company of the accompanying Garda.

    I dont smoke.

    It could be claimed in court that the cigarette was contaminated, making the drug test positive. This has not happened yet. Might have a better chance than the urine vapour theory though.


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