Sheep attacked by dogs... aftermath

Username John

Hello,

Had some incidents with dogs after the sheep last week. Hopefully its sorted now, with the culprits identified and put down. They were neighbours dogs, and he has said he will pay for the damage.

Thing is - what is "the damage"...

Some sheep and lambs were killed, and some had to be destroyed. Now am looking at the value, and am not sure what to do. Its easy to put a value on the sheep that were killed. But what about the ones that were injured? Or what about the ones in lamb, that may have lost lambs?

Anyone have this happen to them before and how did it work out? All comments welcome...

jap gt

how many have you lost

my neighbours have sheep on four different farms have lost 30 sheep in the last month, we have shot 4 dogs chasing sheep, but there must still be one or two left

sea12

i had problem with this a few years ago. A neighbour I wouldnt have much time for had a rotweiller. caught it chasing the sheep one night and followed it back to this persons house. He said he would pay up.

For the next month I found the dog in the field. I would go to the house and he would say it wasnt his dog in the field even though eventually i would see it going in ahead of me with my own eyes. Eventually I had to get Guards involved. He agreed to pay damages. The cost of all dead sheep (5) at the market value. He got his brother to pay half upfront and said the rest would be paid at the end of the month. He never did, despite me looking for it many times.

The Guards made him get the Dog put down though. Dont have a gun but if it happened again I would get someone in to sort it.

So If i was u, get whatever was killed and a fee for damaged ones. Why should you be out of pocket for someone else not looking after their dog.

Username John

jap gt wrote: »

how many have you lost

my neighbours have sheep on four different farms have lost 30 sheep in the last month, we have shot 4 dogs chasing sheep, but there must still be one or two left

Jesus - 30 sheep. That would be most of my flock...

Lost 4 so far - on 2 seperate incidents. 4 inside with cuts and tears, vet had to stitch 2 back together

sea12 - To be fair, I didnt have the same issue, dogs were put down after they went missing, and more sheep ended up dead. Was a shame it took the second time to do it, but dogs are dead now.

Birdnuts

I get so angry when I here these stories:mad: - people who do not have proper facilities for containing their dogs should be banned from keeping the majority of breeds. Same goes for those deliquents who have a record of failing to control their dogs in rural areas. :mad::mad:

jap gt

Birdnuts wrote: »

I get so angry when I here these stories:mad: - people who do not have proper facilities for containing their dogs should be banned from keeping the majority of breeds. Same goes for those deliquents who have a record of failing to control their dogs in rural areas. :mad::mad:

i have shot a few dogs for farmers this year, when the farmer gets in contact with the owners they hardly ever own up to owning the dogs, one farmer was able to get a dogs microchip scanned to find out the owners after they had said the didnt own him

goat2

is this happening at night or daytime, my guess is it is happening at night, when dogs should be in doghouses, not free to roam

Birdnuts

jap gt wrote: »

i have shot a few dogs for farmers this year, when the farmer gets in contact with the owners they hardly ever own up to owning the dogs, one farmer was able to get a dogs microchip scanned to find out the owners after they had said the didnt own him

Their the type I'm on about - my 3 are always secured when not out with me hunting etc. behind a high wall or electric fence!! I consider this the most basic detail a responsible dog owner should attend too from day one!!

Bizzum

A lot to be said for compulsory microchipping of all dogs.
Make it a legal requirement,like the tags in cattle and sheep.
No hiding place then.
It would benefit all right thinking dog owners. In farming now we have to be 100% traceable.
Indeed the Dept. of Ag. could police it, Might keep them outta harm!

johngalway

Username John wrote: »

and he has said he will pay for the damage.

Thing is - what is "the damage"...

Some sheep and lambs were killed, and some had to be destroyed. Now am looking at the value, and am not sure what to do. Its easy to put a value on the sheep that were killed. But what about the ones that were injured? Or what about the ones in lamb, that may have lost lambs?

Anyone have this happen to them before and how did it work out? All comments welcome...

Sounds like you have the € value of the killed animals worked out already.

As for the "damaged" animals, that's more complicated. I would split the bill in two. One now for those killed, and get it in writing that the second part is yet to come. I would factor in my time in giving those animals care, and also if any of them died, plus maybe half the value of those injured animals and full market value of any aborted lambs.

If you know your lambing %, if this is lower at lambing time it may give you more of an idea which have lost lambs due to the dogs if it's much under the usual %.

But, make sure you factor in your TIME, and don't pay yourself cheaply here, it's the other persons fault. Building up a flock can take a long, long time.

You will need paperwork from the dead animal collector for the killed sheep in case the other person has a sudden change of mind and decides to screw you. Know that for a fact.

Just an idea, someone else might have a better one.

I don't take kindly to owners of stray dogs.

5live

From my own experience of sheep after a dog attack, the ability to herd the sheep is compromised as well. When i went into the sheep field they went crazy looking for a way out. I had to house them for a week feeding ration to get them used to seeing me again. And mothering ability after lambing can be poor too so you will have to keep a close eye on them whem lambing. All these costs are down the line so try to factor them into the bill. Best of luck getting the compensation as i think they will agree anything just to get rid of you but nothing when it comes to cash changing hands. Sorry about the negativity but just my experience from 20 years of sheep:(

Username John

5live wrote: »

Best of luck getting the compensation as i think they will agree anything just to get rid of you but nothing when it comes to cash changing hands. Sorry about the negativity but just my experience from 20 years of sheep:(

This is what am afraid of...

Username John

goat2 wrote: »

is this happening at night or daytime, my guess is it is happening at night, when dogs should be in doghouses, not free to roam

First one at night, then second in the evening. I suspect they were kept in, then let go, and they went straight for the sheep.

I dont think putting them at night was ever a priority :mad:

Username John

jap gt wrote: »

i have shot a few dogs for farmers this year, when the farmer gets in contact with the owners they hardly ever own up to owning the dogs, one farmer was able to get a dogs microchip scanned to find out the owners after they had said the didnt own him

How can that work? How can they still deny owning them after that?

jap gt

Username John wrote: »

How can that work? How can they still deny owning them after that?

they only owned up when he got it scanned, we knew they owned the dogs all along so we got a vet to scan them

mikemac

Been in this situation alright.
And for every sheep lost the vet was called out to verify it and do the paperwork.

The local garda was fantastic and in a rural area this is a pretty standard thing for an experienced garda to deal with.

One dog was shot and the other was followed home and the owner destroyed it.

Despite promises of compensation (market value plus callout fee) it dragged on and on.

Went to the District court, full payment awarded and costs

But realy, without getting into compo culture there was a lot of time and energy wasted on this and that's never getting paid for.

The culprit can promise you they'll sort this out and settle it and then go home to think about it overnight and they try to wiggle out if it.
Much the same as motor accidents too I suppose

johngalway

That's why people need the paperwork and to factor in all costs, medicines, time especially as many people won't put that price in.

Documents from animal collection, vet bills, and so on. Photograph the dogs also and get any admission of liability from the owners in the presence of a Garda or in writing or something you can use as evidence.

jap gt

if it was me and a dog killed my sheep that i had worked hard to mind i would claim for everything right down to the bullet used on the dogs.. Its not your fault people cant mind their dogs why should you lose out

rancher

had a bad experience in the spring with 300 of my inlamb ewes being repeatedly chased,some being electrocuted in the electric fence, I finally caught a gun club dog chasing them, had lots of abortions, barren ewes, and ewes dying at lambing.However, despite the owner never keeping his dogs in, other gun club members being aware of his behaviour, the dog being caught in the act, and the problem ceasing when the dog was put down, the NARGC would not compensate me...... can't say it reflects the goodwill shown by farmers towards gunclubs, they tell me it was coinciidental that he was in the field that day and also coincidental that i had unprecedented losses as well. you lot can be judge and jury as to whether i was treated fair

jap gt

rancher wrote: »

had a bad experience in the spring with 300 of my inlamb ewes being repeatedly chased,some being electrocuted in the electric fence, I finally caught a gun club dog chasing them, had lots of abortions, barren ewes, and ewes dying at lambing.However, despite the owner never keeping his dogs in, other gun club members being aware of his behaviour, the dog being caught in the act, and the problem ceasing when the dog was put down, the NARGC would not compensate me...... can't say it reflects the goodwill shown by farmers towards gunclubs, they tell me it was coinciidental that he was in the field that day and also coincidental that i had unprecedented losses as well. you lot can be judge and jury as to whether i was treated fair

as far as i know, it would have to be the owner of the dog that claims from the nargc

Dusty87

goat2 wrote: »

at night, when dogs should be in doghouses, not free to roam

dogs shouldn be free to roam, day or night!!

tabby aspreme

luckily have not had any dog trouble for two years ,will house insurance cover damage done by family pets ?

rancher

looked into that, but house insurance only covers pets on their own property. Gun club had permission for members on my land and then ran for cover when one gave trouble.

5live

Dusty87 wrote: »

dogs shouldn be free to roam, day or night!!

Quite right. And i have the right to shoot them as soon as their snout enters my field of ewes. LOL dude. By law your animals are required to be under control day AND night. Whether that includes locking up in a shed or by chain is your call. Just as its my call to eliminate any dog chasing my sheep, day or night, and bill you for the complete costs. Your call really:D

brownswiss

jap gt wrote: »

if it was me and a dog killed my sheep that i had worked hard to mind i would claim for everything right down to the bullet used on the dogs.. Its not your fault people cant mind their dogs why should you lose out

....

In my case the owner of the dogs is on social & in a council house... She has never paid for anything and never will.... should the bitch be shot or put down humanely by lethal injection?

beardedmaster

brownswiss wrote: »

....

In my case the owner of the dogs is on social & in a council house... She has never paid for anything and never will.... should the bitch be shot or put down humanely by lethal injection?

The dog or the owner?

brownswiss

beardedmaster wrote: »

The dog or the owner?

...

I believe the dogs are already in the happy hunting ground.....

foxylock

I hate this ****e, we had an incident a few years back where we lost five sheep and four others were badly mauled and failed to lamb. We shot the dogs and rang the owner to come up and collect them ( he thought they were still alive ). Bouncing in the gate he was told they were in the shed, still none the wiser he walked past the dead sheep and then we could see the realisation on his face of what had happened. Pedigree dogs, he says, just a few oul sheep, he says. There were four of us ....... he paid on the spot. However as a previous poster said it doesn't cover the stress on both farmer and animals and also the later lambing problems or abortions. I have dogs and understand the responsibility involved in caring for them I also understand a bit about pack mentality and that day in the shed the smart man from the village learned a bit too !!!

rancher

foxylock wrote: »

I hate this ****e, we had an incident a few years back where we lost five sheep and four others were badly mauled and failed to lamb. We shot the dogs and rang the owner to come up and collect them ( he thought they were still alive ). Bouncing in the gate he was told they were in the shed, still none the wiser he walked past the dead sheep and then we could see the realisation on his face of what had happened. Pedigree dogs, he says, just a few oul sheep, he says. There were four of us ....... he paid on the spot. However as a previous poster said it doesn't cover the stress on both farmer and animals and also the later lambing problems or abortions. I have dogs and understand the responsibility involved in caring for them I also understand a bit about pack mentality and that day in the shed the smart man from the village learned a bit too !!!

Can't see why farmers won't report unrestricted dogs to the dog warden, If all farmers did this, whether they owned sheep or not, the stray dog problem would be solved

foxylock

And by the time the dog warden ventures out into the countryside there are carcasses piling up. Dog owners need to cop on to the fact that the cute and cuddly dog lying in front of the fire has the ability to cause serious damage to livestock. While the owner watches coronation street and lets fido out for a run another mans livelihood is potentially being ruined.

5live

rancher wrote: »

Can't see why farmers won't report unrestricted dogs to the dog warden, If all farmers did this, whether they owned sheep or not, the stray dog problem would be solved

I used do that rancher but gave up when the warden told me he would be on in 3 days and me looking at the dog chasing my sheep around the field.

Now i take care of the problem myself and call the warden to collect the dead dog. Much better for my blood pressure

rancher

5live wrote: »

I used do that rancher but gave up when the warden told me he would be on in 3 days and me looking at the dog chasing my sheep around the field.

Now i take care of the problem myself and call the warden to collect the dead dog. Much better for my blood pressure

Good response from county councils here..... not in emergencies... just in keeping stray dogs gathered up. Prevention is better than cure.

5live

rancher wrote: »

Good response from county councils here..... not in emergencies... just in keeping stray dogs gathered up. Prevention is better than cure.

You are very lucky so with the council. Absolute nightmare round here but they dont give a rats a**e because there are only a few sheep farmers round here. I had to go round to all the neighbours within a mile and ask them to control their dogs. They got fair warning. The other lad bounding me had a nice bit of work for a few months and after that the dogs were kept under control by their owners.

The council came round checking dog licences earlier this year though. They called into all the houses with dog licences to check but never went near houses that didnt, even with dogs barking outside. You would have to admire their diligence:rolleyes:

brownswiss

foxylock wrote: »

And by the time the dog warden ventures out into the countryside there are carcasses piling up. Dog owners need to cop on to the fact that the cute and cuddly dog lying in front of the fire has the ability to cause serious damage to livestock. While the owner watches coronation street and lets fido out for a run another mans livelihood is potentially being ruined.

....

We are very fortunate with the Dog Warden in our area..

1chippy

we rang warden on two dogs. they arrived over a week and a half later called to the owners house who sat inside and wouldnt answer the door. warden called over and said there was nothing more he could do. the owner got rid of the dogs later so happy out now.

Bodacious

A neighbour of mine an absolute gentleman I might add, lost in the 70's 80's 86 sheep in one night, dogs from the town went on a massacre, he sold up remaining say 20 live ones that fri and never kept a sheep since and never got a penny compensation from anyone, pack of dogs from the town, publicians, shop keepers, etc

different times back then or whatever but I'd have kicked in doors and dragged dogs from the fireplace til every last culprit was dealt with.

brownswiss

02-01-2012, 14:43 #1 knick_knack



Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011


Posts: 43


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Does my dog have to die?


Hi all,

was just wondering if I could get a small bit of feedback on an issue I know has already been quite discussed.

So apologies straight off but this is a long story and I can't find any close enough matches already on here.

We have several dogs one of whom is an Irish Wolfhound. Taking them for a walk Christmas morning around half 6 (so very dark and had a torch) we walked into a field (of which the owner is aware I do when there are no animals in the field) where my other half immediately noticed there was a flock of sheep. These sheep were not there the day before and perhaps two steps in to the field we saw them, called all the dogs out and closed the gate.


Only problem was the Irish wolfhound (lets call her Rex), was nowhere to be seen. After putting the other dogs securely away, (2-3 minutes tops) we returned and entered the field with the torch calling constantly. There was no sign of the dog. The field (approx. 30 acres) has dips and rises so we walked the whole thing, coming across only 2 foxes and no Rex.


After walking the field we returned home to check if she was there. I came back out about an hour later and standing at the gate called. No answer.


About just under two hours later there was enough light to go back out to start another full search. As I got to the gate my better half spotted her in the corner of the field lying down. One sheep was lying next to her. When I called she got up and came back and the sheep got up and wandered off.


The very first thing I did when Rex came back to me was check her mouth. There was no sign of any blood either in or around her mouth. Rex was exhausted mind and covered in mud up to her elbows. Also on the other side of the field was to the manager of the property on a mobile phone.

Two hours later the farmer who was renting the field showed up at my back door, with a rope, demanding to take the dog down to the knacker yard to be shot. Now I am well aware of the unwritten law that an animal that tastes blood must be put down. However this dog had no blood on her. Eventually I got him to calm down enough that he wouldn't do it on Christmas day

Now my fellow boarders what I would like to know is where do we stand. The farmer wants compensation for a sheep who he says is bleeding from the neck and needs to be put down (Without sounding biased I did not see any such sheep when the dog was called back over but then again my attention was focused solely on the dog). He also wants compensation for trauma to the sheep which were in lamb.

Now I don't mind paying the compensation even if the dog wasn't responsible in order to stop this here and now. The dog would from this point on be constantly watched and not let off loose again. While I am aware of the law stating that

The dog was caught in a field but not attacking/killing or eating a sheep. Essentially whether or not they did the act almost seems irrelevant as the dog's size and being seen in the field seems to have condemned it to death. I'm not saying shes definitely innocent (though again there was not a drop of blood on this dog, is that even possible if shes being killing sheep?) but i'm not convinced of her guilt either. .............



How blinkered can people be ????

Bodacious

brownswiss wrote: »

02-01-2012, 14:43 #1 knick_knack



Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011


Posts: 43


Adverts | Friends

Does my dog have to die?


Hi all,

was just wondering if I could get a small bit of feedback on an issue I know has already been quite discussed.

So apologies straight off but this is a long story and I can't find any close enough matches already on here.

We have several dogs one of whom is an Irish Wolfhound. Taking them for a walk Christmas morning around half 6 (so very dark and had a torch) we walked into a field (of which the owner is aware I do when there are no animals in the field) where my other half immediately noticed there was a flock of sheep. These sheep were not there the day before and perhaps two steps in to the field we saw them, called all the dogs out and closed the gate.


Only problem was the Irish wolfhound (lets call her Rex), was nowhere to be seen. After putting the other dogs securely away, (2-3 minutes tops) we returned and entered the field with the torch calling constantly. There was no sign of the dog. The field (approx. 30 acres) has dips and rises so we walked the whole thing, coming across only 2 foxes and no Rex.


After walking the field we returned home to check if she was there. I came back out about an hour later and standing at the gate called. No answer.


About just under two hours later there was enough light to go back out to start another full search. As I got to the gate my better half spotted her in the corner of the field lying down. One sheep was lying next to her. When I called she got up and came back and the sheep got up and wandered off.


The very first thing I did when Rex came back to me was check her mouth. There was no sign of any blood either in or around her mouth. Rex was exhausted mind and covered in mud up to her elbows. Also on the other side of the field was to the manager of the property on a mobile phone.

Two hours later the farmer who was renting the field showed up at my back door, with a rope, demanding to take the dog down to the knacker yard to be shot. Now I am well aware of the unwritten law that an animal that tastes blood must be put down. However this dog had no blood on her. Eventually I got him to calm down enough that he wouldn't do it on Christmas day

Now my fellow boarders what I would like to know is where do we stand. The farmer wants compensation for a sheep who he says is bleeding from the neck and needs to be put down (Without sounding biased I did not see any such sheep when the dog was called back over but then again my attention was focused solely on the dog). He also wants compensation for trauma to the sheep which were in lamb.

Now I don't mind paying the compensation even if the dog wasn't responsible in order to stop this here and now. The dog would from this point on be constantly watched and not let off loose again. While I am aware of the law stating that

The dog was caught in a field but not attacking/killing or eating a sheep. Essentially whether or not they did the act almost seems irrelevant as the dog's size and being seen in the field seems to have condemned it to death. I'm not saying shes definitely innocent (though again there was not a drop of blood on this dog, is that even possible if shes being killing sheep?) but i'm not convinced of her guilt either. .............



How blinkered can people be ????

Hi BrownSwiss,

Im both a dog owner and a farmer and i do feel your pain in this but the fact is that you lost control of your dog for 2 hours in a field of sheep, and by your own admission she had a sheep held down/ under her control when you found her even if she did trot off.

I think id cooperate with the farmer if he is being reasonable ... you see the damage is not immediately visible ie. your dog if chasing them for 2 hours could cause many to lose lams, loss of earnings, ill thrift.

You may have got away light, if you pay up and keep the dog you may regret it the next time she gets loose

brownswiss

Bodacious wrote: »

Hi BrownSwiss,

Im both a dog owner and a farmer and i do feel your pain in this but the fact is that you lost control of your dog for 2 hours in a field of sheep, and by your own admission she had a sheep held down/ under her control when you found her even if she did trot off.

I think id cooperate with the farmer if he is being reasonable ... you see the damage is not immediately visible ie. your dog if chasing them for 2 hours could cause many to lose lams, loss of earnings, ill thrift.

You may have got away light, if you pay up and keep the dog you may regret it the next time she gets loose

.......

Reposted this from another non farming forum.... ... i thought some of the advice the the OP was interesting to say the least

Bodacious

brownswiss wrote: »

.......

Reposted this from another non farming forum.... ... i thought some of the advice the the OP was interesting to say the least

My Apologies Brown Swiss, I thought it was your dog.. i dont know exactly and i have no sheep but if it were me or any member of my family it would be 1) straight to the Vet 2) pay the man and apologise and move on.... now if he takes the total piss id also be the first to say hang on a minute!

Rovi

[MOD]
Can I respectfully ask that if anyone from 'here' (the Farming area of Boards.ie) chooses to participate in that thread, that they have a read of the Animals & Pet Issues Charter first, and remember that many/most of the regulars there AREN'T from the farming community and many/most of them also aren't aware of the often visceral reaction 'we' (the livestock farming community) feel towards this sort of incident.

In short, please be an ambassador for farming, and don't go reinforcing the 'Farmer Palmer' stereotype.


Added:
The thread is now closed, so it's all moot now anyway
[/MOD]