Unfair DART fine?

Akiviri

Ok, not long ago, I went into town via the DART train system.
I was 15 at the time, it was the 26th of October and my birthday is the 29th, so naturally I was entitled to buy a child ticket (Which is for anyone under 16)
When I was getting off at Tara Street Station, I put my ticket through the turnstile, and went through, whereby a member of the station's staff asked to see my ticket.
In the interest of including all the details, I do look older than I am, I've been told I look 18, or would pass for 20.
The member of staff asked my DOB, and I told him.He didn't believe me, and he asked for ID, but the only ID I have is my passport, which I don't usually have with me. I was fined €100 for "Fare Evasion" and was given 21 days to pay it. They took my details, and I told them the honest truth about who I am, my DOB, my address, etc.
I was told to send the fine payment to Pearse Station Rail Offices, and when I asked what to do about the fact that I have the right to buy a child ticket, and they half-sarcastically told me that IF I'm under 16, to bring a copy of my birth cert into the same offices to prove it.

Now, thus far, as far as I'm concerned, I don't believe I did anything wrong, at all.
However, the date the 21 days expires is this tuesday, the 16th of November.
I haven't had a chance to get into Town again since that date, because I have school all week and as far as I know the office is closed on the weekends, and it's been a pretty busy time for me. But I will be in town due to work experience I'm doing all next week, so I plan to bring the copy of my Birth Cert into the offices tomorrow, exactly 20 days after I was given the fine.

So, finally, my question is, will I have any problems with this? My main worry is that they'll have some claim that my appeal is invalid because I've left it so late, but wouldn't the fact that I was GIVEN the fine on invalid terms outweigh that? And besides, technically, it's not even too late. Will they accept the Copy of my Birth Cert as proof that, at the time the fine was given, I WAS genuinely under 16 and valid to pay a child's fare?

(Sorry for such a long post, I just want to be clear.)

Victor

No, you seem to be perfectly within your rights.

You don't have to attend in person - you could have a parent sort it out if you want.

You passport would be slightly more clear cut as it has your photo.

If I was you, I'd demand some sort of compensation. If nothing else a refund of your fares to go in to the office, even if you'd be incurring some of that fare anyway.

They do encourage people in their teens to carry age ID for such situations.

cedan

Victor wrote: »

No, you seem to be perfectly within your rights.

You don't have to attend in person - you could have a parent sort it out if you want.

You passport would be slightly more clear cut as it has your photo.

If I was you, I'd demand some sort of compensation. If nothing else a refund of your fares to go in to the office, even if you'd be incurring some of that fare anyway.

They do encourage people in their teens to carry age ID for such situations.

What are they supposed to carry though? It would not be a good idea to carry around a passport, same for birth cert (maybe a copy of them?)

I'd definately be looking for compensation here for your fare here.

Akiviri

@Victor:
Hmm, Yes, I see what you mean about the passport, but the person "Fining" me specifically mentioned a copy of my birth cert, and he took my name which they must have filed somewhere. I'm bringing a slip they gave me with the fine's details which has a serial number on it, which I'm sure the slip that he wrote my details on also has. And, my passport really doesn't look like me. the photo was taken about 4 years ago.

I think it may be best to do it myself, as my parents have work and I'll be in that area anyway. (In fact I have to get the train to Pearse to get to my work experience)

In all honesty I'd prefer to just get this out of the way, so I don't think I'll ask for confirmation. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted to shove it in their faces though.

And cedan is right. My passport is literally the only ID I have. I have no student or bank cards, or anything like that. And it's probably not a good idea to keep my passport with me every time I go out.
I may keep a copy of my passport in my wallet from now on though. Might try to get an up to date passport, too.

Thanks for the replies

Victor

Isn't their an ID that goes with schoolchild / scholar (not child) fares?

Trevor451

why did you give your real contact information in the first place?

Victor

Trevor451 wrote: »

why did you give your real contact information in the first place?

Because he's honest and has nothing to worry about?

Lapin

You'll be grand.
Under 16s are not obliged to carry ID on Irish Rail so the burden of proof lies with them. If they can't prove you were under 16 they will issue a fine passing the burden of proof back to you. Its the only thing they can do. The way they see it, you will pay the fine unless you can prove it was unfair. And because you can prove you were under 16 at the time they will throw your fare evasion notice in the bin when you call into see them. Bring your passport along and explain your situation just as you have done here.

You could report the member of staff who issued the fine if you think you were treated unfairly. Your complaint will be noted, and placed in a file to gather dust alongside all the other complaints Irish Rail receive.

Lapin

Victor wrote: »

Isn't their an ID that goes with schoolchild / scholar (not child) fares?

Schoolchild fares (under 16) - No
Scholar fares (16 - 18 year olds) - Yes

Akiviri

Yes, as far as I know, under 16s are entitled to pay the child fare, with or without ID. The Student fares are for people over 16 who are still in school with a student card.
Irish Rail offer a student ID, apparently, but you have to pay to get it, and go to wherever they say to have your photo taken, and altogether it's just a lot of hastle.

It was my first instinct to give my real details, because I knew I'd done nothing wrong. I didn't think they'd actually go ahead and fine me.

I think I may ask for an email address to enquire about compensation when I go in with my Birth Cert, but I don't think it'd be a good idea to wait and sort it all out then, as I'd probably wind up late for Work Exp. As it is I'm getting up earlier so I'll have time to sort this.

Also, it says that "Appeals must be submitted to [Pearse Station Office] in writing."
So do I have to have the situation explained in writing? Is this an appeal? My parents told me that it's not an appeal, it's proving them wrong on the spot.

Thanks for the replies everyone

brownacid

I would say to bring your passport and your birth cert in with you, IR are complete knobs so you shouldn't give them any reason doubt you. If it was me I would be tempt to wait 'til after the 21 days and meet them in court and have them pay all the court fees when the judge throws it out.

Akiviri

@brownacid That's quite tempting, but I'd really rather not risk being charged with failure to provide the proof of age, or with contempt of court, or something completely stupid like that. Because, I'm sure you know you yourself, IR and the "Justice" system around it, ARE something completely stupid like that.

....Still though, would be quite satisfying.

Victor

brownacid wrote: »

If it was me I would be tempt to wait 'til after the 21 days and meet them in court and have them pay all the court fees when the judge throws it out.

You're not 16 and at risk of a criminal conviction, so this line of action is a non-runner.

Akiviri

Actually, I am 16 now. They might try and use the fact that it was close to my birthday to argue with me, but in the end that's pretty redundant.
But could I be convicted now, for something that happened when I was 16?

Victor

You are still a few stages away from court. Irish Rail would need to review the evidence. They would need to get a court date. A summons would need to issue. The risk would be that if you didn't show up, you would be convicted in your absence. While this could be appealed (which may be subject to restrictions), you just don't need that type of complication.

However, in such matters the basic rule of law is "Was it illegal at the time?". As you were 15 at the time, it wasn't illegal for you to travel on a child fare.

Akiviri

Alright, Grand Thanks very much, everybody! I'll post here tomorrow to let you all know how it went

Thanks again

-Akiviri.

Jehuty42

I will just chime in to remind you of the location of the offices- Entering Pearse Station, go up the stairs to the Southbound Platform 2, the door is on your left before the ticket barriers.

Akiviri

Thanks, you've just saved me an awkward search of the entire building, I think

corktina

Best of luck.Don't worry, just take your passport AND birth cert and watch them squirm when you prove to them that you are honest and they are wrong. You cannot be convicted of anything here. ASK FOR COMPENSATION FOR YOUR TIME AND EXPENSES...

Carawaystick

corktina wrote: »

Best of luck.Don't worry, just take your passport AND birth cert and watch them squirm when you prove to them that you are honest and they are wrong. You cannot be convicted of anything here. ASK FOR COMPENSATION FOR YOUR TIME AND EXPENSES...

Don't ask for compo, hand them an invoice, detailing the fare cost to get there and billing for your time as a consultant...

flyingsnail

Irish Rail Conditions of travel (link)

Section 14 children

14.3
Where there is a doubt regarding the age qualification, it will be the responsibility of the passenger to produce satisfactory evidence of age to secure the reduced fare.

if you produce your id to the office you should be fine.

Akiviri

Ok, I'd just like to let everybody know it's sorted, the fine is "Withdrawn."
No compensation given, nor explanation as to why. Pretty rude attitude toward the whole thing, too


This was the first thing I ever posted about on Boards, and I'd like to thank you all for the replies and help, You people are amazing D;

Boards =

Losty Dublin

Akiviri wrote: »

Ok, I'd just like to let everybody know it's sorted, the fine is "Withdrawn."
No compensation given, nor explanation as to why. Pretty rude attitude toward the whole thing, too


This was the first thing I ever posted about on Boards, and I'd like to thank you all for the replies and help, You people are amazing D;

Boards =

Glad it's all sorted out, now. See, these things can be sorted out neatly without the need for cheating or lies:)