Who's Telling Political Porkies?

Biggins

Someone is telling porkies!

Biffo says we are not in talks/negotiation over loans.
The BBC and Sunday Times alone say he/we are?

Who do you think is closer to the truth?

On one side:

The Government has denied for the second time in 24 hours that it is in bailout talks with the EU, after the BBC reported yesterday that "preliminary talks" on financial support are taking place.
The BBC report made the unsubstantiated statement that recourse to the EU bailout fund was "no longer a matter of whether but when".
But a spokesman for the Department of Finance was adamant last night: "There are no talks on an application for emergency funding from the European Union."

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cowen-fury-at-bbc-when-not-whether-bailout-claim-2419458.html

...But the BBC pointed out that Greece said the same "there are no negotiations" then suddenly there had been and loans were given!

On the other side:

The Republic of Ireland is in preliminary talks with EU officials for financial support, the BBC has learned.
It is now no longer a matter of whether but when the Irish government formally approaches the European Financial Stability Fund (EFSF) for a bailout, correspondents say.
The provisional estimate for EFSF loans is believed to lie between 60bn and 80bn euros ($82-110bn; £51-68bn).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11750676

European officials are trying to force Ireland to agree to a big rise in its rate of corporation tax as a condition of an economic rescue package. Rumours of an €80 billion (£69 billion) European Union bailout of the Irish economy gathered momentum this weekend as sources in Brussels claimed “preliminary” talks were taking place.

Although Ireland has yet to make a formal request for aid from the €750 billion eurozone bailout fund, City sources said tentative discussions had taken place on the structure of any rescue. Last night, Brian Cowen, speaking for Taoiseach, said there had been “no discussions of any sort about funding”.

France and Germany have said that Ireland would have to raise its 12.5% corporation tax rate in exchange for aid, according to sources close to the talks. Dublin’s tax breaks have been a long-standing source of irritation for both countries.

Brian Lenihan, the Irish finance minister, is fiercely opposed to the move for fear it would kill off an Irish economic recovery.
The “Celtic Tiger” economy was built on low corporate taxes that were used to attract inward investment from multinationals such as Intel, Pfizer and Dell.

Fears for Ireland’s financial health resurfaced last week after comments from Angela Merkel, the German chancellor. Merkel raised fears that investors in Irish debt would be forced to take losses on their existing bonds as part of a restructuring of the country’s debt. A statement on Friday morning, endorsed by Britain, France, Germany, Italy and Spain, said this would not happen.

Yields on Irish bonds, which hit a record of 8.95% on Thursday, fell back to 8.14%.
Lenihan has repeatedly denied that the country needs any external aid, arguing that “it makes no sense”.

Brussels, meanwhile, has insisted that Ireland has not applied for assistance from the European Financial Stability Fund. Sources close to the Irish government were claiming last night that Brussels was attempting to force the country into an EU rescue deal through a series of leaks. Ireland does not need to raise more debt until the second quarter of next year.

Portugal has also been in the spotlight in recent days, amid fears that it, too, could be forced into a debt restructuring. The Portuguese authorities are keen to shore up confidence in the country’s banks.
Bank of China, the state-owned lender, is in talks to buy a stake of up to 10% in Banco BPI, Portugal’s third-largest lender.

The stake would be acquired in exchange for access to the bank’s fast-growing business in Angola. Millennium BCP, another Portuguese bank, is in talks with Chinese institutions about a similar deal.

http://img574.imageshack.us/img574/2875/wwwthesundaytimescoukst.jpg
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/business/Economy/article446396.ece

---

So who is telling the truth?

itsallaboutheL

Do you seriously expect me to read that?

Biggins

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Do you seriously expect me to read that?

I expect you to roll over - like the rest of us - come December the 7th and tale it up the ass.
I'll share the lube with you.

fonecrusher1

Sick of hearing about it to be honest.

Robocop is cool.

Biggins

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Sick of hearing about it to be honest.

Robocop is cool.

I have to disagree.

Robocop WAGNER is cool.

RoundyMooney

It's very simple.

We don't even need the BBC (but thank God for foreign media, they're doing the job ours should be).

In a nutshell, Biffo and Lendahand have said something, ergo the opposite is the case.

fonecrusher1

Biggins wrote: »

I have to disagree.

Robocop **** is cool.

Dizzgusting remark. Post reported.

ejmaztec

I did a nice little post on this topic yesterday, and it vanished without a trace.:eek:

Biggins

ejmaztec wrote: »

I did a nice little post on this topic yesterday, and it vanished without a trace.:eek:

LOL
After Hours - the Twilight Zone of the internet! :pac:

mike65

Some minister is being asked directly on RTE radio 1 and has said he is not aware of any moves being made. So he doesn't know whats going on....

galwayrush

Our Government are afraid to tell us the truth of their folly.

RoundyMooney

mike65 wrote: »

Some minister is being asked directly on RTE radio 1 and has said he is not aware of any moves being made. So he doesn't know whats going on....

It's a FF thing, Bertie did the same wrt his lodgements.

Perceived ignorance is better in their world than being caught out in a public lie, or breaking party lines by actually telling the truth for once.

Rubik.

The phrase "the BBC has learned" isn't explained in the article, it all seems to be based on "eurozone officials" telling Reuters that Ireland getting financial assistance is very likely. All this was widely reported at the time and the BBC (or whoever wrote it) appear to be letting on that they know more than they actually do.

Biggins

This thread by the way is not about politics per se - its about who is more accurate in the truth!

The media or Ireland?

galwayrush

Biggins wrote: »

This thread by the way is not about politics per se - its about who is more accurate in the truth!

The media or Ireland?

Our Government would be slightly more truthful than say Indimedia.:pac::pac:

RoundyMooney

Biggins wrote: »

This thread by the way is not about politics per se - its about who is more accurate in the truth!

The rest of the world's media or Ireland's politicians and their scribbling lackeys?

Fixed.

K-9

They'd be negligent if they hadn't had talks at this stage as it is a real possibility we will be using the fund.

So, actually, they probably haven't had talks.

punchdrunk

"...and in Political news today,minister for communications Mohammed Saïd al-Sahaf
has again stated that the cabinet in Kildare st are not in negotiations with the ECB or indeed the IMF"

epgc3fyqirnbsx

I'd take what the BBc is saying with a pinch of salt, every institution is likely to want to see how this budget goes first at least

And if our corporation tax is touched we are in big big trouble, that is the only thing retaining any industry that we have left

PCros

This is like the 4th thread about the same thing.....

More about the situation here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056088651

galwayrush

PCros wrote: »

This is like the 4th thread about the same thing.....

More about the situation here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056088651

Which one is most believable?:p

Biggins

PCros wrote: »

This is like the 4th thread about the same thing.....

More about the situation here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056088651

Actually this thread about who's telling the truth - not about the situation itself!

The material supplied from media sources above is to substantiate truth from one side or the other - not to debate the political points themselves.

PCros

Biggins wrote: »

Actually its about who's telling the truth - not about the situation itself!

Add a poll so.....

Cat Melodeon

I'd be more concerned if the matter had not been discussed. At this point, every 'what if' scenario should be trashed out and a plan of action put in place, whether that scenario is us needing a European bailout or the economy returning to growth and good times. Having talks about a potential but hypothetical situation is the responsible thing to do, but the slant the media is putting on it is that talking about it means it is going to happen.

So yes, the government is probably lying, but the media is reporting it as "secret talks = bailout definitely going to happen".

K-9

punchdrunk wrote: »

"...and in Political news today,minister for communications Mohammed Saïd al-Sahaf
has again stated that the cabinet in Kildare st are not in negotiations with the ECB or indeed the IMF"

jimmycrackcorm

I wanted to make the point that cat has made. Just because a potential outcome is being discussed dies not imply that it will actually happen.

Biggins

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I wanted to make the point that cat has made. Just because a potential outcome is being discussed dies not imply that it will actually happen.

This is possibly true and a good point to dwell on.

Guy:Incognito

Its the political equivolent of a footballer claiming he wants to leave his club in an article that has no quotes from the player and lots of "a source said" or "a close associate said".

RonMexico

If Cowen said it was sunny outside I'd look out the window to check.

starbelgrade

The politicians.

Isn't that part of their job description?

Biggins

Biggins wrote: »

I expect you to roll over - like the rest of us - come December the 7th and tale it up the ass.
I'll share the lube with you.

We're getting lube?!
I thought it was just cheese and happy thoughts.

On topic: I'd imagine there's more than a few little white lies coming out of the Dail these days.