Team to score the fourth goal.....

jive

Long story short, i had a bet for 'no goals' when barca were 2 - 1 up against valencia. barca were looking dangerous so i placed bets on them to get the fourth goal. they then got the 4th goal but my bets were resettled (void basically) but my no goals bet was not refunded, just a loss. thoughts on this? it was with paddy power and this is what i got from the live help...

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agent ;Welcome to Live Help, my name is agent. How can I help you today?

me ;hi i got cut off from my last session i think my internet timed out

Welcome to Live Help, my name is Zig & Zag. How can I help you today?

me ;Hi, i had a few bets on the barcelona match tonight. My bet for barcelona to score the next goal was refunded (because play was not suspended, i noticed this myself and although i had the bet on before the goal was scored i can see why it was refunded) but i also had a bet on for no goals. i'm wondering why that also wasnt refunded?

agent ;one moment please and I will just check your account

agent ;sorry for the delay, I am just looking into this for you

agent ;ok no problem

me ;i just assumed that because my stake on the goal was refunded my no goals to be scored bet should also be refunded

The session has ended!

me ;basically i still have the problem outlined above

agent ;One moment...

agent ;Your bets - Team To Score the Fourth Goal Bet receipt ***** and Bet receipt **** were both refunded as the market for this bet was left online past the betting time, this means bets were accepted on the marked even though they shouldn't have been. This is the reason in your case, Apologies for the inconvenience.

me ;yes but i also had a bet for 'no goals' and i'm wondering why the stake for that is not refunded if bets for the fourth goal were refunded

agent ;As that market was not affected by the live betting error.

me ;its the same market

me ;if i hedged my bet for barcelona to get the fourth then i should also be refunded for no goals

agent ;Unfortunately that is not the case. The only market affected by this error was Team To Score the Fourth Goal market and this is why only these bets were refunded. No more bets will be refunded I'm afraid.

me ;But 'no goals' is also under that market

agent ;Not in this case.

me ;the market includes valencia, barcelona and no goals

me ;so in essence the winning bets are refunded but the losing bets stand?

agent ;I do apologise for the inconvenience caused by the error however only the once market was affected and therefore refunded.

me ;but it is the same market so how is can you refund one bet from that market and not the other

me ;you only refunded winning bets on the market but not the losing bets

me ;how is that fair?

agent ;In this case it is not the same market, apologies again for the inconvenience.


agent ;The error has now been corrected, apologies again for any inconvenience caused.

me ;so my losing bet will be resettled?

agent ;No, looking at the bet you wish to have refunded, this was placed 5 minutes before the other bets which were placed after the market closed. That is the reason the other bets are refunded and not the no goals selection, it was placed in the correct timeframe of the market the others were not due to a technical error and were thus refunded.

me ;my bet was placed before the market had closed

me ;i'm sure if you check the time of the goal and the time of the bet you will see that

x PyRo

Time to move to a real bookmaker IMO.

jive

x PyRo wrote: »

Time to move to a real bookmaker IMO.

I'm in the right though yeah? It is under the same market on the site. It's basically "you win, we'll take back our stake. you lost on the same market, but we'll keep that"

x PyRo

I would assume so but they won't care really. They just do what they want when it suits, that's why you should do in-running betting elsewhere, Powers will just pick and choose excuses not to pay you out.

jive

i want to leave but id rather stay and just keep winning :P

--paul--

Your winning bet was refunded because of the time you placed it,paddypower are in the right, if u placed the bet on barca at the same time as no fourth goal you would have got paid out,I think you completly missed the agent's point

jive

--paul-- wrote: »

Your winning bet was refunded because of the time you placed it,paddypower are in the right, if u placed the bet on barca at the same time as no fourth goal you would have got paid out,I think you completly missed the agent's point

i understand his point. my bet was still placed before the event took place. just because there was an error on their end doesnt mean i should lose out

UrbanSea

jive wrote: »

i understand his point. my bet was still placed before the event took place. just because there was an error on their end doesnt mean i should lose out

What was the error? Why did they want to close the market?

--paul--

Ye but betting markets close before the event happens,what the agent is saying is that u placed your bet between when the markets were meant t close and when the fourth goal was scored

jive

greetings wrote: »

What was the error? Why did they want to close the market?

There was a goal so the market needed to be suspended. I placed my bet before the goal but because the market was not suspended they didnt pay out.

--paul-- wrote: »

Ye but betting markets close before the event happens,what the agent is saying is that u placed your bet between when the markets were meant t close and when the fourth goal was scored

The markets only close when there is a chance of a penalty, a clear cut opportunity (player running through one on one) or a goal has been scored. This was none of these things, under usual circumstances the market would still have been open. The market was left open for around 30 seconds after the goal was scored, which was the issue.

UrbanSea

Doesn't look like you're in the wrong from this end anyway.

El Horseboxo

What time was the goal in real time? And what was the exact time you placed both of your bets?

If you placed the 4th goal bet after the 4th goal was scored in real time but while PP were displaying only 3 goals in the game they can unfortunately say there was an error in not suspending the market quick enough and they will refund your stake.

And if you placed the no goals bet before there was a 4th goal in real time you should have lost the bet as there was a 4th goal. PP will say they are not a live score service and market suspension didn't affect that bet. Even if you placed the no goals bet at for example, 20:43:53 and the goal occured at 20:43:55 you still would have lost the bet. The same way you would have won it if those times were for another goal to be scored bet.

But if you placed the no goals bet after the 4th goal in real time you should have won it as there were only 4 goals in the game. Market suspension should not affect that either regardless of what PP say. Their reason is that you placed the no goals bet before the 4th goal. So you just need to check exact times of both events because market suspension does not affect a bet saying there will be no more goals as you can only be before or after the event.

jive

El Horseboxo wrote: »

What time was the goal in real time? And what was the exact time you placed both of your bets?

If you placed the 4th goal bet after the 4th goal was scored in real time but while PP were displaying only 3 goals in the game they can unfortunately say there was an error in not suspending the market quick enough and they will refund your stake.

And if you placed the no goals bet before there was a 4th goal in real time you should have lost the bet as there was a 4th goal. PP will say they are not a live score service and market suspension didn't affect that bet. Even if you placed the no goals bet at for example, 20:43:53 and the goal occured at 20:43:55 you still would have lost the bet. The same way you would have won it if those times were for another goal to be scored bet.

But if you placed the no goals bet after the 4th goal in real time you should have won it as there were only 4 goals in the game. Market suspension should not affect that either regardless of what PP say. Their reason is that you placed the no goals bet before the 4th goal. So you just need to check exact times of both events because market suspension does not affect a bet saying there will be no more goals as you can only be before or after the event.

all bets were placed before the 4th goal was scored but they voided my winning bet and kept my losing bet :S

El Horseboxo

Well if all bets were placed before the 4th goal you should have won the 4th goal bet and lost the no goal bet. Market suspension shouldn't come into the equation if you placed the bets before there was a 4th goal in real time.

Losing your no goal bet is correct as you did lose that. But you should have won the other one. Check out official times of the goals and time of bets placed and try take it further.

Cavehill Red

Take it to IBAS.

No guarantee that you'll get anywhere (though you might), but the more times bookies are held to account for dodgy practices the better.

http://www.ibas-uk.com/

okidoki987

Don't expect an answer soon though.

Cavehill Red

Have you used them? Out of curiosity, how long did it take?
One lad in here said he'd appealed twice to IBAS and got a response in 2-3 weeks before.

jive

for the sake of 50 quid i think il just leave it go, not worth the hassle. im up a good bit these last few weeks, otherwise maybe i wud go after that 50 :P as long as it doesnt happen again (and if it does il lose the plot) im happy enuf

myflipflops

jive wrote: »

for the sake of 50 quid i think il just leave it go, not worth the hassle. im up a good bit these last few weeks, otherwise maybe i wud go after that 50 :P as long as it doesnt happen again (and if it does il lose the plot) im happy enuf

Why complain if you are not willing to do anything?

As Cavehill Red said, more punters need to take up issue with bad practice by bookmakers. As it stands, IBAS is the best method to do this.

If it happens again, you may well 'lose the plot' but that won't get you anywhere. Complaining through a proper procedure will mean that it will not happen if you are in the right.

Collie D

It's hard to judge without getting a time-frame of when you placed the bets and when the goal was scored. Agent said the losing bet was placed five minutes before the other bet. If that's true then I think it's reasonable to treat this as a loser. Can't really comment on the 'winning' bet without more info.

Cavehill Red

jive wrote: »

for the sake of 50 quid i think il just leave it go, not worth the hassle. im up a good bit these last few weeks, otherwise maybe i wud go after that 50 :P as long as it doesnt happen again (and if it does il lose the plot) im happy enuf

Why would you continue betting with someone who will take your money but will not pay out when they lose?

Seems like madness to me.

In a similar situation, I referred the matter to IBAS and took my business away from that bookie until the situation is resolved.

jive

myflipflops wrote: »

Why complain if you are not willing to do anything?

As Cavehill Red said, more punters need to take up issue with bad practice by bookmakers. As it stands, IBAS is the best method to do this.

If it happens again, you may well 'lose the plot' but that won't get you anywhere. Complaining through a proper procedure will mean that it will not happen if you are in the right.

to vent. not worth following it up for such a small stake, i don't have the time to be dealing with that kind of stuff.

Collie D wrote: »

It's hard to judge without getting a time-frame of when you placed the bets and when the goal was scored. Agent said the losing bet was placed five minutes before the other bet. If that's true then I think it's reasonable to treat this as a loser. Can't really comment on the 'winning' bet without more info.

i'm not sure of the exact time that messi scored (in world time not football time) but i was watching the game myself and my bet was placed before he scored. this is why i feel i was wronged and hence the thread. if i knew i was in the wrong i obviously wouldn't be here. if the event had taken placed when i had placed my bet then i would obviously understand why they voided my bet, i'm not a fool or new to gambling.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Why would you continue betting with someone who will take your money but will not pay out when they lose?

Seems like madness to me.

In a similar situation, I referred the matter to IBAS and took my business away from that bookie until the situation is resolved.

because ive been using them for ~3 years now and have never had any issues. i had an issue with another bookmaker in the past (placed a bet with stan james for brazil to win the world cup, if spain won my stake was returned as a free bet. i was on a j1 at the time and when i came home i had no free bet. the agent on the phone said that it was a free bet which must be used within 30 days - it didn't say this in the terms and conditions of the bet or any e-mails received regarding the bet.) and i havent touched them since.

they are not the only bookmakers i use, but i like their site so i tend to use it quite frequently now. once i build up some more money i will be transferring and doing most of my betting on betfair, but until then i will keep using paddy power. it seems crazy but i have my reasons

Healio

Are these bets placed on the market "time of xth goal" or where they just the "Team to score fourth goal" market?

radharc

Did you place both bets at the same time?

If not, why would Paddy P void your bet on no goals as it's clearly a losing bet?

If yes then they obviously should have voided it.

Also if you don't think your 2nd bet (on Barca to score the next goal) was late, just ask them for a screenshot of the goal being scored and compare it to the bet time. Easy peasy

jive

Healio wrote: »

Are these bets placed on the market "time of xth goal" or where they just the "Team to score fourth goal" market?

just team to score the fourth goal!

radharc wrote: »

Did you place both bets at the same time?

If not, why would Paddy P void your bet on no goals as it's clearly a losing bet?

If yes then they obviously should have voided it.

Also if you don't think your 2nd bet (on Barca to score the next goal) was late, just ask them for a screenshot of the goal being scored and compare it to the bet time. Easy peasy

no i placed the no goals bet, then barca were looking dangerous so because the no goals had shortened and barca to score had drifted i covered my bet with barca to score the next goal. i placed the bet before messi scored, i was watching it on tv myself. i tried going through live help and asked them to check the times of the goals and bets, but they weren't particularly co-operative!

ft9

If it was me I would be letting them know Im closing my account and posting about it on forums such as this to let people know what scam artists they are. Its no coincidence that most complaints about bookmakers on here are PP. I used them up untill recently myself, but never again. Time to move on, just don't go quietly, kick up a massive fuss on your way out.

jive

ft9 wrote: »

If it was me I would be letting them know Im closing my account and posting about it on forums such as this to let people know what scam artists they are. Its no coincidence that most complaints about bookmakers on here are PP. I used them up untill recently myself, but never again. Time to move on, just don't go quietly, kick up a massive fuss on your way out.

That's mainly the reason for my post. If theyre advertised as scabs then people will choose to go with one of the many other bookmakers. I will be doing most of my business with betfair once i build up a big enough bank. I'm happy to keep winning on paddy power, i'm sure they'll close my account as well if i keep on winning. Watch this space :P

myflipflops

jive wrote: »

to vent. not worth following it up for such a small stake, i don't have the time to be dealing with that kind of stuff.

Fair enough but next time a bookmaker potentially screws you over, there's no point in venting.

ft9 wrote: »

Its no coincidence that most complaints about bookmakers on here are PP..

Certainly is no coincidence - they're the biggest bookmaker in Ireland so it's natural that they get the most complaints.

jive

myflipflops wrote: »

Fair enough but next time a bookmaker potentially screws you over, there's no point in venting.

well the last time anything bad happened with a bookie was with stan james and i havent used them since and wont use them again. Ive never had any problems with powers though but i will be out of there if anything like this happens again.

ValueSeeker

Sounds like you tried to take advantage of an error on their part and it back fired. You should always check the T & C's. they usually have everything covered.

ValueSeeker

jive wrote: »

just team to score the fourth goal!



no i placed the no goals bet, then barca were looking dangerous so because the no goals had shortened and barca to score had drifted i covered my bet with barca to score the next goal. i placed the bet before messi scored, i was watching it on tv myself. i tried going through live help and asked them to check the times of the goals and bets, but they weren't particularly co-operative!

If this is true, then the 2nd bet was a winner, simple as that. Unless, your bet wasn't processed in time (due to downtime on their site) and that's just unfortunate.

jive

ValueSeeker wrote: »

If this is true, then the 2nd bet was a winner, simple as that. Unless, your bet wasn't processed in time (due to downtime on their site) and that's just unfortunate.

I have no reason to lie haha. if i did place a bet after the event happened and it was voided i'd totally understand.