Zeitgeist

[Rasta]

Browsed and searched, however I didn't find a single thread for this.
I'm sure quite a few people have seen the Zeitgeist movies by now.
So why not have an interesting discussion about the movies...

In my opinion the movies are quite interesting and to me they do make an interesting point about the whole monetary, class and control system.
However like most 'conspiracy theories' people always say 'ooh yea thats just utter rubbish... just wild accusations etc.'

The information it reveals about the monetary system, and the extreme manipulative ways of governments, corporations and banks is honestly quite worring.
They ideas do seem plausible, however there is always a lack of hard evidence and facts, but it does show a fair bit. But I have to admit a lot of it was quite hard to understand.

The religion part is unnecessary in my opinion, because to me religion is completely obsolete. I don't know why they bothered with (mocking) the religions.
Just let people believe in whatever they want as long as their moral values are healthy. Although I would have to agree a religion in that sense is utter
pointless because in a way everyone believes in something else. Our minds all wander differently and see thing in different ways giving different beliefs.

I like the general idea behind the resource based economy(Venus Project). The likelyhood that it will ever come to be is faint i'd say.
I don't know how you would transfer today's people, who base their lives around money to become people who would genuinely work for free.
I doubt people will ever understand that it would be possible to live without money. But the fact everyone is completely obsessed with money
creates a huge block in the way really.

I dont think it would be possible for people to treat each other equally. We have all been accustomed to look down on others who for whatever
reason should be less than us. The amount of hate between people would make any bit of global peace impossible.



tl;dr
All in all the two movies are great, provide interesting ideas to a better future and provoke some hefty theories about capitalism, 9/11, how money makes us slaves etc.

I hope the third movie will come out soon. I hope it brings some new interesting ideas

PanchoVilla

Zeitgeist is simply a regurgitation of ideas that have been around long before Peter Joseph even learned how to edit movies. It's purpose is to suck people into the Venus Project cult, a scam which is run by a con man known as Jacques Fresco. He's been spouting the same nonsense about his utopia since the mid 70s, he's collected millions of dollars in donations and through sales of his books, DVDs, and CDs, and nothing has been done with any of this money. All of Fresco's ideas can be found in popular science fiction novels written before he decided to form this cult.

Di0genes

I doubt people will ever understand that it would be possible to live without money.

Okay y'know what, you don't get to write that on message board, on a computer, and have this opinion.

You really think things like bb scripts and computers could exist, without money?

[Rasta]

Di0genes wrote: »

Okay y'know what, you don't get to write that on message board, on a computer, and have this opinion.

You really think things like bb scripts and computers could exist, without money?

Kinda funny you mention that but it would have been nicer to have a world without the pc. The only reason I find the pc cool is because the way the world is at the moment(soooo many limitations to what we can do). Otherwise id just bin it. Too many other things to do.


@Pancho
Well, would you value the world we have now above a more idealistic world where most humans would work together peacefully?
Im not really interested in the project/jacque, I just like his general ideas however I dont like the idea of a pre-built world from a project.
Of course utopias have been mentioned in loads of novels etc.
People have always imagined it, but jacques is the only guy ive heard of who is actually trying to figure out a better solution. If you know of other people who have started similar things let me know.

Di0genes

[Rasta] wrote: »

Kinda funny you mention that but it would have been nicer to have a world without the pc. The only reason I find the pc cool is because the way the world is at the moment(soooo many limitations to what we can do). Otherwise id just bin it. Too many other things to do.

Wow well thats nice, but for the rest of us, we need our computers to work. And I like my job, also doctors engineers, scientists all use computers, so your quality of life would disappear without money,

Torakx

[Rasta] wrote: »

Kinda funny you mention that but it would have been nicer to have a world without the pc. The only reason I find the pc cool is because the way the world is at the moment(soooo many limitations to what we can do). Otherwise id just bin it. Too many other things to do.


@Pancho
Well, would you value the world we have now above a more idealistic world where most humans would work together peacefully?
Im not really interested in the project/jacque, I just like his general ideas however I dont like the idea of a pre-built world from a project.
Of course utopias have been mentioned in loads of novels etc.
People have always imagined it, but jacques is the only guy ive heard of who is actually trying to figure out a better solution. If you know of other people who have started similar things let me know.

I agree with you on many things here.
It seems pancho is saying that while Fresco appears to be creatng or trying to create this utopia he is not actually doing this and is collecting money instead or making a nice living out of the idea of working towards this.
I do like the idea presented by the venus project.If we are going to go global with society we should be working together and on many more things.Politically and monetarily though the wrong people got hold of the power and they really dont wish to let it go.
The people trying to "lead2 us into a new world order are doing it for selfish reasons or just the wrong way.
If they wanted the world to change it is done by example in every respect i think.But then we dont have psychology ruling the world we have egos and greed
Neither would be good but psychology is the lesser of two evils i think and the evolution of humans should be to atain progress in all these areas(and more) globally at the same time.that is the zeitgeist i would like to see happen

PanchoVilla

[Rasta] wrote: »

People have always imagined it, but jacques is the only guy ive heard of who is actually trying to figure out a better solution. If you know of other people who have started similar things let me know.

That's probably because you haven't bothered looking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-D23-OjmoM

The following is a bit hippyish but it's an example of people doing instead of saying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YyNjAs-nHo

[Rasta]

PanchoVilla wrote: »

That's probably because you haven't bothered looking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-D23-OjmoM

The following is a bit hippyish but it's an example of people doing instead of saying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YyNjAs-nHo

Those are merely the first steps, nothing more. How about cities? metropoles? Life on water? and life in harsher regions where weather extremes come to play etc.

PanchoVilla

[Rasta] wrote: »

Those are merely the first steps, nothing more. How about cities? metropoles? Life on water? and life in harsher regions where weather extremes come to play etc.

Excuses, excuses. Rome wasn't built in a day. This is the problem with Zeitgeist and TVP fans, they want everything to change right away while doing the minimal amount of work. Sure just let the robots do everything, right? And who says humans should live in cities? Cities were built to facilitate consumerism and capitalism. And how much more extreme is there than the Saharan desert? The first video shows a group of people growing crops from the sand.

[Rasta]

PanchoVilla wrote: »

Excuses, excuses. Rome wasn't built in a day. This is the problem with Zeitgeist and TVP fans, they want everything to change right away while doing the minimal amount of work. Sure just let the robots do everything, right? And who says humans should live in cities? Cities were built to facilitate consumerism and capitalism. And how much more extreme is there than the Saharan desert? The first video shows a group of people growing crops from the sand.

Im not saying they should have all of it built, I was thinking more of plans and ideas for the whole scheme, having a look at the whole picture. Of course it would take decades to do. With the sahara desert, all you have to do is get fertilizer in and look for a good source of water, set up some solar energy panels and youre sorted.

Places that get bombarded by earthquakes, landslides and hurricanes is what i referr to as extreme. Places where you actually have to think about every little detail. Perhaps those places will never be safe, but one could try. I would consider the desert a haven compared to places with earthquakes.

Well in a way we would have to have cities with the amount of people we have. If we all spread out, how do we find space to efficiently grow crops unless each household has their own farm, which is what people dont want. Cities, although I hate them are a necessity, unless people come up with solutions but honestly I can hardly imagine one.

Di0genes

PanchoVilla wrote: »

Excuses, excuses. Rome wasn't built in a day. This is the problem with Zeitgeist and TVP fans, they want everything to change right away while doing the minimal amount of work. Sure just let the robots do everything, right? And who says humans should live in cities? Cities were built to facilitate consumerism and capitalism. .

The word "Civilization" derives from the Latin word for city, and "city" itself derives from the concept of "a group of citizens". Civilization is, by definition, based upon the notion of a group of people coming together in an urban setting. Everything we are as a species is derived from The City, our history, our evolution, our origins as anything more than flint-striking hairless hominids is formed by The City, and in truth The City is also our future. City dwellers produce less greenhouse emissions, less waste and less children than their rural equivalents (see Stewart Brand's "Whole Earth Discipline" or last week's New Scientist for more analysis), so humanity's best hope for a truly sustainable future lies within an urban environment.

Torakx

Maybe Zeitgeist was a social experiment to see if that new world religion would take and if not what else would be requiired.Next is aliens

PanchoVilla

Di0genes wrote: »

The word "Civilization" derives from the Latin word for city, and "city" itself derives from the concept of "a group of citizens". Civilization is, by definition, based upon the notion of a group of people coming together in an urban setting. Everything we are as a species is derived from The City, our history, our evolution, our origins as anything more than flint-striking hairless hominids is formed by The City, and in truth The City is also our future. City dwellers produce less greenhouse emissions, less waste and less children than their rural equivalents (see Stewart Brand's "Whole Earth Discipline" or last week's New Scientist for more analysis), so humanity's best hope for a truly sustainable future lies within an urban environment.

That's a pretty ridiculous suggestion. The word civilization comes from the word civilis; Of or pertaining to citizens, civil, civic. It basically mean a group of people who share a common law, it has nothing to do with living in cities. People who live in cities are more prone to disease than people who live in the country. Any farmer who knows anything will tell you that keeping animals or crops close together for an extended period of time will increase the chance of disease. That is the purpose for crop rotation.

The city's purpose it to create wealth and power for the people who run them. Everyone else is just labor to be subjected to the laws of the elite. Your claim about cities creating less pollution and less children is nonsense. The Amish don't live in cities and they have no landfills, no greenhouse gas emissions, and they don't have 5-10 children like the working class in cities do. Tribal cultures all over the world don't live in cities and they create no pollution and are healthier than any person living in a city.

Our so-called civilization is built of conflict, slavery, greed, and power. It only works because those in power subjugate the majority with the threat of violence or incarceration, which in itself is a form of violence.

Richard tea

I havent watched it myself yet. I just wanted to post the link for interested members.

ZEITGEIST Moving Forward (2011)




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV-u2gMfdjQ