What materials to build a house with?

abouttobuild

My first post as I embark on the most scary and expensive project of my life!

We have a plot of land and got plans drawn up and are now about to start down the road of trying for planning permission. Do we need to decide in advance of going for planning what we will be building the house with at the moment? I am very overwhelmed and confused with trying to make decisions about what building material would be best for us; balancing cost as our pockets are far from deep and something that will save us money on the ever increasing living costs and be comfortable to live in.

This is the list of possible building options currently, gotten from reading the many threads here and construction websites kindly supplied by Google the builder:
Structural insulated panels
Closed panel timber frame
Insulated concrete framework
Block build

Am I missing any building type I need to research here?

muffler

abouttobuild wrote: »

My first post as I embark on the most scary and expensive project of my life!

We have a plot of land and got plans drawn up and are now about to start down the road of trying for planning permission. Do we need to decide in advance of going for planning what we will be building the house with at the moment? I am very overwhelmed and confused with trying to make decisions about what building material would be best for us; balancing cost as our pockets are far from deep and something that will save us money on the ever increasing living costs and be comfortable to live in.

This is the list of possible building options currently, gotten from reading the many threads here and construction websites kindly supplied by Google the builder:
Structural insulated panels
Closed panel timber frame
Insulated concrete framework
Block build

Am I missing any building type I need to research here?

Hi and welcome to the forum.

For planning purposes you need only specify the external finishes - eg. colour and type of wall finish, roof finish (tiles, slates) including colour, window design - not necessarily the type of window as in pvc/timber but the design element part of it. Some Planning Authorities may not permit a Georgian style window for example.

As for deciding on the type of wall construction it's really down to yourself. There are a lot of pros and cons for each type so you need to discuss this with your architect/engineer/technician. There are lots of threads here on various types and can be found by entering "wall construction" or the likes into the search box.

You will need a BER assessor so it might be a good idea to discuss this with him/her also as the Uvalues vary also. What I would suggest however is that you engage a quantity surveyor (QS) who will be able to provide you with a full breakdown of all the materials (including costs) you will need for the project. Normally the QS would work from the plans but for an additional fee they could give you a detailed breakdown of material costs for the different build types.

abouttobuild wrote: »

as I embark on the most scary and expensive project of my life!

I always thought that marrying a woman was the most expensive (and scariest)


.

Poor Uncle Tom

abouttobuild wrote: »

Am I missing any building type I need to research here?

Steel frame,
Wattle & Daub,
Straw,

muffler wrote: »

I always thought that marrying a woman was the most expensive (and scariest)

Naw, just try un-marrying one....

abouttobuild

Thanks for the responses! We have an architect but he's come back and said timberframe is un proven in the Irish climate and wants us to go down a block build route. I am all about the warmth and currently live in a cold, poorly built concrete block house that we bought off plans in a housing estate during the crazy property days. We've upped the insulation and draft proofed all windows and doors but the walls are always cold, even the internal walls suck the heat out of the radiators attached to them and give little in return.

Splinter Cell

abouttobuild wrote: »

We have an architect but he's come back and said timberframe is un proven in the Irish climate and wants us to go down a block build route.

Do yourself a favour at this early (and critical) stage of the project ... get yourself a better architect! This is exactly how I started off until a bit of research and some good advice from the people on this forum enlightened me. There are plenty of good professionals out there at very reasonable rates. I changed architect - and construction technique from block to TF - and haven't looked back

abouttobuild

Splinter Cell wrote: »

Do yourself a favour at this early (and critical) stage of the project ... get yourself a better architect! This is exactly how I started off until a bit of research and some good advice from the people on this forum enlightened me. There are plenty of good professionals out there at very reasonable rates. I changed architect - and construction technique from block to TF - and haven't looked back

Did you go with timber frame constructed on site or did you do the likes of closed panel? That's good advice for sure but I actually quite like the plans he's come up with (it's like he went in my head and pulled out the perfect house for us from there) but there is some tweaking that needs to be done to make it more sun worshipping. There are a couple of big windows on the north facing aspect and I want them moved, things like that. I don't mind that he doesn't approve of the building technique that i am thinking of using but I need to decide what that building technique is going to be for him to properly dis-approve! I would love structural insulated panels but they're very expensive and I'm not about to prostitute myelf for a house

LoTwan

I was all about the blocks until recently when I actually put some thought into the whole thing and we are now decided and more content with the idea of timber. Fortunately my engineer is very fond of timber and so I have no issues with him signing off the project. My BER guy is not so fond of it but he is going along with me

Don't forget that you may need to have your architect sign off on the development for your mortgage (or hire a qualified engineer to do it) so having an architect who is anti TF may not be a good thing if you decide to go down that route.

imitation

abouttobuild wrote: »

Thanks for the responses! We have an architect but he's come back and said timberframe is un proven in the Irish climate and wants us to go down a block build route. I am all about the warmth and currently live in a cold, poorly built concrete block house that we bought off plans in a housing estate during the crazy property days. We've upped the insulation and draft proofed all windows and doors but the walls are always cold, even the internal walls suck the heat out of the radiators attached to them and give little in return.

Your going to find this sort of thing alot as you build, theres so many opinions out there, and in many cases there just opinions with no scientfic backing (sometimes there simply isn't a huge amount of info out there about a particular method or technology). Best thing to do is to get out there and ask a few other architects and TF owners and see what they think.

Don't rule out concrete block homes either, with proper techniques they can be built to very warm standards also, theres a big difference between celtic tiger estates with wafer thin insulation and bottom of the range double glazing and a hi specced self build.

muffler

I recall attending a Homebond seminar a couple of years ago and they had only just began to cover TF houses under their 10 year guarantee scheme shortly before that. One of the speakers (from Homebond) was listing some stats and he said that the traditional blocks and mortar house had an average lifespan of 70 years whereas TF house had an average lifespan of 30 years.

You can draw your own conclusions from that.

LoTwan

muffler wrote: »

One of the speakers (from Homebond) was listing some stats and he said that the traditional blocks and mortar house had an average lifespan of 70 years whereas TF house had an average lifespan of 30 years.

You can draw your own conclusions from that.

Are you commenting on the level of education about the reliability of TF or about the reliability of TF itself?

beyondpassive

Hi Abouttobuld,

You've certainly come to the housebuilding market at a very interesting time. Builders, architects and engineers are producing a different product than that of the bubble years. Where previously the price of the house was primarily the residual value of the land, now that land is worth considerably reduced, factors such as design, comfort and future value become increasingly important. So the rules have changed entirely in this game.

One major change worth noting is in how decisions are made in designing and specifying a house. Where as before you could ask around and find out what works or dosen't and make decisions based on heresay, you just can't take that risk anymore. Using the BER or Passivehouse approach, you can design the house to meet a particular level of performance. This is a systems approach which aggregades all the components and equipemnet in a house to perform to a certain level.

In the context of systems design, the type of wall you use is not of huge relevence. Sure timber frame has huge reputation and legacy issues, but the closed panel timber frame being offered by the better timber frame suppliers is a very different animal to what is offered at the bottom half of the market.

The big issue in house design and building is workmanship and quality control. Sloppy work and lack of supervision can ruin even the best plans. The only way to get control of this issue is to have a comprehensive specification and detailed drawings for tender stage.

Having a professional who understands the new rules on board is critical. He can advise using an evidence based approach rather than relying on something he heard in the pub. That way you will have a home that will exceed your requirements and maintain its value, especially when the value of our recent building stock becomes pretty much worthless.

muffler

LoTwan wrote: »

Are you commenting on the level of education about the reliability of TF or about the reliability of TF itself?

I relayed a comment that was made by a representative of a company who provide a structural guarantee on TF houses.

muffler

beyondpassive wrote: »

Having a professional who understands the new rules on board is critical. He can advise using an evidence based approach rather than relying on something he heard in the pub.

I doubt if any professional would be interested in what he hears down in the pub.

abouttobuild

Thanks all, and beyondpassive you have hit my issue at its core. I cannot oversee the construction of a block build on a daily basis so quality control would have to be contracted out, i.e. no direct labour. On a bitterly cold day on an open elevated site I can't expect that the work will be perfect, that the hired contractor will have the same passion for perfection I'm striving for. however I definitely think I could do it if I go down the route of direct labour with SIPS, Closed panel or even ICF. The quality control would go in at the outset with the laying of the foundation that must be perfect to ensure no margin of error when the panels come on site and the detailed drawings will ensure that the creation of the panels would be note perfect. I know this makes me sound anal but this is my home for life! I am researching everything but Ive become paranoid with wondering what the agenda of those giving their opinion is online. Google is brilliant for information as well as misinformation. Again thanks all so far

beyondpassive

@Muffler,
Sorry I put that wrong. Professional use evidence based approaches, but clients and self builders often rely too much on here-say and folklore.

@ abouttobuild,
Its not about the quality/workmanship of the trades and suppliers, most people working now in the industry are fairly conscientious and the standard of work is good. The problems occur where the components meet. Its a management thing, its not about being on site 24/7, its about having all decisions made on paper before anything is even priced. I think good technical detailing and a comprehensive energy model such as DEAP or preferably PHPP is a great start, it becomes clear to everybody involved in the build the standards required and the need to work towards a shared goal.

Will23

abouttobuild wrote: »

I know this makes me sound anal but this is my home for life!

this is nothing to be sorry for, you are embarking on what is most likely a once in a lifetime process for you, you should of course take your time and be sure your get what you want.

if i could offer some small words of advice, don't put all your faith in google etc, there are some really good professionals (architects/architectural technicians) who can help you with the technical stuff.

if you know what it is you are looking for, i.e. well insulated, breathable, airtight, from current TGD Part L and beyond, all the way to Passive/Zero Carbon, this is a big help, because it should focus the professional who can offer a good quote for specific advice, without requiring the full service, and the external wall construction will be borne directly from these requirements

as was said above, your architect should really be helping you with this, and maybe they are?

there are lots on here who can offer more than this, but a good place to start is to set your targets. i.e. this will help determine the type of building material you may want to further explore.

Will.

davymc31

hi i work in the building game and work in different houses every week new and old and what i see is very sad the bad workmanship is getting worse and the engineers seem to be turning a blind eye to this all the time.my advice is to buy the homebond book it tells you all the right way things are to be done and things to watch out for i built a few houses myself and all the subcontractors seem to think they will do it there way not the right way ,i have to fight with them to do it right the whole time,i seen a lot of builders giving the sub to guys that are cheap that do bad work so he can save on the pc sums and in the end its the home owner that loses with workmanship.go block and insulate all external walls with kingspan slab and get a local builder from the area , if i can help just drop me a line

abouttobuild

beyondpassive wrote: »

@Muffler,
Sorry I put that wrong. Professional use evidence based approaches, but clients and self builders often rely too much on here-say and folklore.

@ abouttobuild,
Its not about the quality/workmanship of the trades and suppliers, most people working now in the industry are fairly conscientious and the standard of work is good. The problems occur where the components meet. Its a management thing, its not about being on site 24/7, its about having all decisions made on paper before anything is even priced. I think good technical detailing and a comprehensive energy model such as DEAP or preferably PHPP is a great start, it becomes clear to everybody involved in the build the standards required and the need to work towards a shared goal.

Thanks I definitely will get talking to people! So what you're saying is I should set out my goal and work from there to achieve the goal? Well that is brilliant advice! I'm actually losing site of the bugger picture by thinking of materials individually first.

Right back to basic, my goal is as follows: I want at least a near passive house and ideally passive. The reason I want this type of house is that I've been lucky enough to live in an apartment complex on the continent that was passive standard and it was the most comfortable home I have ever lived in that stayed nice throughout all seasons. The temp. outside ranged from -30 to +35 and inside it always felt the same.