Macs?

GaVooN90

Hey guys,

Looking at investing in a new laptop over the Christmas, and I was thinking of going for the macbook.. not the newest version but a second hand perfect condition one for about 550.. what do you guys think of that? i know Macs hold their value well.

Also if there is any laptops rivaling it at that price range any suggestions? Just looking for something with good battery life, small and light but not too small, good for movies etc and then its just for college work, internet etc nothing crazy.

5uspect

As a long term Mac hater I've recently bought a MBP.
Macs are expensive but well built and engineered. You will always find Windows laptops with far superior specs than the current generation Mac line up. Apple simply don't have the broad range or the regular update cycles of many OEMs.

This is bad because you're often left with old hardware in expensive new machines.
On the other hand generally with a Mac, it just works and the whole user experience is quite swish.

OS X is a very nice OS but make sure it's compatible with any software you plan on using in College. Otherwise you'll be dual booting Windows.

Apple also do a ~15% Student discount on their lineup so maybe you could get a good deal on a new machine.

Also bear in mind that the battery life on a second hand machine may not be great regardless of model.

€550 would get you a decent i3/i5 laptop from the likes of Dell (I wouldn't recommend Dell tho!) or Asus.

GaVooN90

OK I'll definitely bear that in mind, and I didn't know about the 15% discount either, maybe something i should take a look at!

What machine would you recommend for in and around that price?

Also.. I have talked to a few people and they said tis possible to run windows on the mac itself and I know a few doing that and love it.. what you think of that idea? or anyone who's familiar with it?

5uspect

5uspect wrote: »

As a long term Mac hater I've recently bought a MBP.
Macs are expensive but well built and engineered. You will always find Windows laptops with far superior specs than the current generation Mac line up. Apple simply don't have the broad range or the regular update cycles of many OEMs.

This is bad because you're often left with old hardware in expensive new machines.
On the other hand generally with a Mac, it just works and the whole user experience is quite swish.

OS X is a very nice OS but make sure it's compatible with any software you plan on using in College. Otherwise you'll be dual booting Windows.

Apple also do a ~15% Student discount on their lineup so maybe you could get a good deal on a new machine.

Also bear in mind that the battery life on a second hand machine may not be great regardless of model.

€550 would get you a decent i3/i5 laptop from the likes of Dell (I wouldn't recommend Dell tho!) or Asus.

I completely disagree with you on the bolded part.

From what i see Macbook's have some of the best specs on the market for there price, if you want to buy a PC with the same specs as a Macbook Pro your looking at spending 200+ quid more for it if your going for a good make.

Personally i would go for a Macbook Pro, they have the new i3, i5 and i7 processors as well as 4GB + ram.

Also you can easily install Windows on to it using bootcamp (google it if you don't know what it is).

You can also upgrade the ram and hard drive without voiding the warranty.

Also, just noticed you only have €550? You'll find it very hard to get a macbook with that.

Kinetic^

Mak_United wrote: »

From what i see Macbook's have some of the best specs on the market for there price, if you want to buy a PC with the same specs as a Macbook Pro your looking at spending 200+ quid more for it if your going for a good make.

I'd like to see where exactly you've noticed this fictional difference.

Alanstrainor

Mak_United wrote: »

From what i see Macbook's have some of the best specs on the market for there price, if you want to buy a PC with the same specs as a Macbook Pro your looking at spending 200+ quid more for it if your going for a good make.

Are you serious?

Simply walk into a store or visit a site like PC world.

Now i'm talking about good makes not company's like ACER were you can get one the exact same for €300 but will be poor a month down the road.

Kinetic^

Mak_United wrote: »

PC world.

Oh wow, you're actually being serious. Anyone who is looking for a high end laptop should know to avoid that shop (or most bricks and mortar stores for that matter) you've just mentioned.

Agreed, but lets be honest here 90%? maybe more buy there machines from places like PC world.

Kinetic^

Lenovo IdeaPad Z560 - ~€750

MBP 15" Core i5 @ 2.4Ghz, 4GB memory - €1800


You can probably throw in another €100 for a windows license if you want to run it on bootcamp.

AlmightyCushion

Mak_United wrote: »

Simply walk into a store or visit a site like PC world.

Now i'm talking about good makes not company's like ACER were you can get one the exact same for €300 but will be poor a month down the road.

Just off the top of my head, HP Envy 14 with core i5, 4GBs ram and a 5650 graphics card is €1200. The base macbook pro 13" doesn't compare in specs and is about a grand. After that you're looking at the 15" which starts at €1800 with an inferior graphics card.

AlmightyCushion

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Lenovo IdeaPad Z560 - ~€750

MBP 15" Core i5 @ 2.4Ghz, 4GB memory - €1800


You can probably throw in another €100 for a windows license if you want to run it on bootcamp.

I don't think that's a great comparison as the lenovo doesn't mention graphics card so I imagine it's integrated. To get one with a similar or better graphics card wouldn't cost that much extra though.

Kinetic^

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I don't think that's a great comparison as the lenovo doesn't mention graphics card so I imagine it's integrated. To get one with a similar or better graphics card wouldn't cost that much extra though.

According to here it's an nvidia 310m, even if it is slightly less then the MBP, it doesn't warrant double the price from Apple. MBP comes with a 330M with 256 memory.

AlmightyCushion

Kinetic^ wrote: »

According to here it's an nvidia 310m, even if it is slightly less then the MBP, it doesn't warrant double the price from Apple. MBP comes with a 330M with 256 memory.

Ah, I didn't see that anywhere on amazon. I don't think there is that much of a difference between the 310 and the 330 anyways.

5uspect

Mak_United wrote: »

I completely disagree with you on the bolded part.

From what i see Macbook's have some of the best specs on the market for there price, if you want to buy a PC with the same specs as a Macbook Pro your looking at spending 200+ quid more for it if your going for a good make.

Personally i would go for a Macbook Pro, they have the new i3, i5 and i7 processors as well as 4GB + ram.

Also you can easily install Windows on to it using bootcamp (google it if you don't know what it is).

You can also upgrade the ram and hard drive without voiding the warranty.

Also, just noticed you only have €550? You'll find it very hard to get a macbook with that.

LOL

TouchingVirus

Mak_United wrote: »

From what i see Macbook's have some of the best specs on the market for there price, if you want to buy a PC with the same specs as a Macbook Pro your looking at spending 200+ quid more for it if your going for a good make.

Personally i would go for a Macbook Pro, they have the new i3, i5 and i7 processors as well as 4GB + ram.

The entry level macbook, the 13" pro doesn't come with an i3, i5 or an i7, nor does it come with 4GB RAM. The 13" MBP that costs €300 more does come with an extra 2GB of RAM and 70GB of hard drive space, but for that money I could get a DDR3 4GB kit and a 1TB hard drive for it and have change for a few pints afterwards.

Do your research, Apple are not "bang for buck" and never have been.

PogMoThoin

Apple are forever doing this:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2010/10/20/apple-launches-new-macbook-air-with-old-hardware.aspx

They hold back on hardware to milk as much out of the market as they can, they know the sheep will buy anyway. This latest Mac uses core2duo tech thats been around since 2006, they should be using the latest core i3 and i5s which are miles faster (and cheap) and should have 4Gb's of ram as standard liks Windows pc's being shipped today.

GaVooN90

Ok then so do you guys think that 550 for a macbook in good condition is a good price and worth going for? rather than a different model new?

Sad Professor

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Apple are forever doing this:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2010/10/20/apple-launches-new-macbook-air-with-old-hardware.aspx

They hold back on hardware to milk as much out of the market as they can, they know the sheep will buy anyway. This latest Mac uses core2duo tech thats been around since 2006, they should be using the latest core i3 and i5s which are miles faster (and cheap) and should have 4Gb's of ram as standard liks Windows pc's being shipped today.

Very misinformed article, but typical of the anti-Apple blogosphere. This is actually Intel's fault, not Apple. Intel are preventing Nvidia from making chipsets for their i3/i5/i7 processors. This means that Apple are forced to either use Intel's crappy integrated GPU or include a separate Nvidia graphics adapter. The 15 and 17-inch Macbook Pro is big enough to accommodate this, but the 13-inch Pro and Air isn't. Apple were forced to make a choice between the two and decided that graphics were more important, so they are sticking with the C2D for now. They will have to find a solution to this though, which may involve a complete redesign of the 13-inch Macbook (possibly sacrificing battery life in the process), going with a different processor, or waiting until Intel and Nvidia have resolved their legal issues.

Afraid to say that 'both' Macbook Pro 13" currently on the market come with 4GB of ram.

Also, the response's of "LOL" etc was not what i was expecting, i thought the users of this section might be a bit different to after hours. I was proved wrong.

Alanstrainor

Mak_United wrote: »

Afraid to say that 'both' Macbook Pro 13" currently on the market come with 4GB of ram.

Also, the response's of "LOL" etc was not what i was expecting, i thought the users of this section might be a bit different to after hours. I was proved wrong.

Only one user had anything like that in their posts to be fair.

4GB of RAM is the standard for pretty much every laptop over the 6/700 price range these days.

U_Fig

Macs are more expensive but on fairness they are generally built good and osx is much better than windows...though the main thing that prevents me from getting a mac is the price not that it's too high that ots stupid that they don't take the exchange rate into consideration and charge the same nominal value in Ireland as the US making ours more expensive..that combined with a lack of hdmi support..

StereoLove

Oh how I'd love a Mac

5uspect

Mak_United wrote: »

Afraid to say that 'both' Macbook Pro 13" currently on the market come with 4GB of ram.

Also, the response's of "LOL" etc was not what i was expecting, i thought the users of this section might be a bit different to after hours. I was proved wrong.

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Only one user had anything like that in their posts to be fair.

4GB of RAM is the standard for pretty much every laptop over the 6/700 price range these days.

And I'm a happy Mac owner at that.

Setun

I'm a mac owner, but I don't think I'll be going back. Currently running a Mackbook Pro a few generations old - got it in October 2007 for college as I was doing a lot of audio/video editing etc and we were being taught the software on mac desktops. I think I will be upgrading over the coming months (the screen enclosure is cracked, and glitching out the display occasionally :eek: so it might be sooner than i would like), but I'd find it very difficult to justify getting one again unless I specifically had to use Final Cut Pro or Logic. The operating systems are beautiful - although Apple seem to be more "in control" of the OS than ever before, which I would find increasingly worrying.

5uspect

So here is a 15" Dell laptop.
PROCESSOR: Intel® Core™ i5-460M Processor (2.53 GHz,3M)
OPERATING SYSTEM: Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64bit
SERVICES AND SUPPORT: 1 year of coverage
LCD: 15.6 High Definition WLED TL (1366x768) 720p
MEMORY: 4096MB 1333MHz Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM [2x2048]
HARD DRIVE: 320GB (7,200rpm) Serial ATA Hard Drive
PRIMARY BATTERY: 6-cell 56Whr Lithium Ion battery
OPTICAL DRIVE: 8x DVD+/-RW Optical Drive edit
GRAPHICS CARD: 1GB NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 420M Graphics
This costs €833.81

The entry level MBP is €1,799.00 and it has a slower 2.4 GHz Core i5 a slower 5400rpm HDD. NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M 256 MB.

The Mac will be much better build, have a stunning display (higher resolution that the Dell also) and more than likely far superior battery life.

I don't think that this is worth double the cost, although I agree that the Mac is a better engineered piece of kit than a crappy plastic Dell.

So, um, LOL.

EDIT: I haven't intended to cherry pick specs here so please point out where I've exaggerated. I'm now looking for a decent system for the OP with a budget of ~€550 in mind.

EDIT2: I would take a look at this Samsung and this higher priced Lenovo.

Battery life is generally a good deal better on OS X and the Windows machine will come with a load of old crap installed. Best thing is take a look at machines similar to the above and the Mac you've seen can see which you prefer.

Sad Professor

U_Fig wrote: »

though the main thing that prevents me from getting a mac is the price not that it's too high that ots stupid that they don't take the exchange rate into consideration and charge the same nominal value in Ireland as the US making ours more expensive

They do take account of exchange rates. But also take account of Irish VAT and other costs involved with doing business here. They like to keep consistent prices, so if they think the Euro is about to tank against the dollar, they'll take account of that as well. Unlike Dell or Microsoft, who will gladly sell something at a loss to try and dominate a particular segment of the market, Apple have always operated on the basis that they want to make a profit. If people are buying their computers they want it to be because they're the best and not because they're the cheapest. I don't particularly like Apple's business model, mainly because if you buy late in a cycle you'll be getting a bad deal, but it has worked out well for them.

Another important factor to consider about Macs is that they hold their resale value very well. Sure, you could get a similarly specced (and poorly designed and constructed) Dell for half the price, but in 3 years time it will be worth nothing, where as a Mac will probably still get almost half its original price.

Daddio wrote:

The operating systems are beautiful - although Apple seem to be more "in control" of the OS than ever before, which I would find increasingly worrying.

Apple are no more "in control" of OS X than they ever were. In fact, if anything, OS X is suffering from a lack of attention from Apple in recent years, not that it really needs it. The conspiracy theorists who believe that Apple are about to impose iOS-like restrictions on OS X don't make any sense. Apple would stand to destroy their computer business by doing so.

Omega28

Just a quick question

I'm going to be making a purchase of a MBP on the apple site using the student discount and in the options section u can add iwork for an extra 55euro but does this not come on the machine already? I thought it did.

Sad Professor

Dylanmc111 wrote: »

Just a quick question

I'm going to be making a purchase of a MBP on the apple site using the student discount and in the options section u can add iwork for an extra 55euro but does this not come on the machine already? I thought it did.

No. iLife comes pre-installed, not iWorks.

Omega28

is it worth the extra 55euro? or should I put my money toward microsoft office? I never used Iworks so Im unsure. thanks

Sad Professor

Dylanmc111 wrote: »

is it worth the extra 55euro? or should I put my money toward microsoft office? I never used Iworks so Im unsure. thanks

It depends. For compatibility reasons, Office is sometimes the better option. But iWork has its advantages. Keynote is superior to PowerPoint, for example. On the other hand, Pages might seem a little lacking compared to Word, but it's a lot lighter on resources.

There's been a few threads over on the Mac forum discussing the pros and cons. Here's a recent one:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056069201

PARARORY

Dylan , I just ordered a macbook pro for college and I went for the microsoft office pack instead of iwork... Iwork ,imo , is a bit difficult to get around I found when using it on my friend's laptops.

5uspect

Also bear in mind that you may have access to free or discounted versions of education editions of software through your college.

SantryRed

Lads,

for a Macbook it's €999 and for a Macbook Pro is €1149. I want 4gb RAM so the Macbook would cost me 1089.

Would I be much better off getting the Macbook Pro so?

Thanks.

Sad Professor

Yes!

For 150 extra you are getting a far superior aluminium enclosure, which is lighter, thinner and generally more durable than the Plasticbook. It also has a backlit keyboard and a Firewire port, and, of course, 4GB of RAM.

Tbh unless they simply can't afford the extra 150, I don't really know why anyone buys the Plasticbook.

5uspect

My Mother has one because she like everything white.

I have the 13" MBP and I'm quite happy with it. The backlit keyboard is nice and the solid construction is excellent.

Also don't forget the higher education discount if you're a student or staff member at a supported institution. It worked out at about 15% for me but I'm in the UK so I'm not sure of the situation back in Ireland.

Sad Professor

Over here the regular student discount is about 7 percent. And the "Apple on Campus" discount for university students is 10 percent.

5uspect

Well for anyone interested here is a snapshot of the UK HE Apple Store.

Works out at pretty much exactly €1000 for the 13" MBP.



There's a hack to view the HE site without actually being on the Institutes's network but I can't find the link.