Zaidpour

HigginsJ

Very impressive debut in the 15.15 at punchestown today. Given the trainer and colours this looks to be a very excititng horse.

http://www.herald.ie/sport/horse-racing/zaidpour-race-calendar-axed-2028846.html

Potential to be very smart. Would be obvious to target the 2m4f novice event at Cheltenham rather than the Supreme.

UrbanSea

Won very easily. Those French recruits always do well.

HigginsJ

I'll say again

Very Impressive

premierstone

HigginsJ wrote: »

Potential to be very smart. Would be obvious to target the 2m4f novice event at Cheltenham rather than the Supreme.

Why? Dont think he should tbh, well capable of winning the supreme and shouldnt avoid anyone horse in particular, look at Menorah last year, and the breeding suggest 2M far more suitable. Seen a report earlier in the week which claimed he went stride for stride with Hurricane Fly in a tough piece of work last week and obviously the worry when hearing this was that the fly wasnt back to he's best but that worry was firmly put to bed yesterday aswell

Goldcupfav

Surely the Supreme will be his target. To think you could still get 14/1 on him for the Supreme before the race yesterday. So impressive yesterday and first time out. Looks like we have something to stick it up to Cue Card!!

mdwexford

At current prices id much rather 5/2 on Cue Card than 5/1 on Zaidpour.

Bluetonic

Goldcupfav wrote: »

So impressive yesterday and first time out. Looks like we have something to stick it up to Cue Card!!

Let's be honest it was a poor grade one yesterday and although he won well you can be sure people involved with the horse will not be getting carried away. Best to hold judgement until some quality is raced against it.

cson

+1

Easy to be impressive when you're beating nothing. Look at Dunguib last year.

radharc

mdwexford wrote: »

At current prices id much rather 5/2 on Cue Card than 5/1 on Zaidpour.

Yeah defo, also wasn't too impressed with his jumping of the last 2. Yesterday's 6 runner crawl bears no relation to a 25 runner Supreme run at breakneck gallop. Looks a class act but still a bit to prove compared to cue card's course winning form and rock solid hurdling form behind last year's Supreme winner.

Goldcupfav

Bluetonic wrote: »

Let's be honest it was a poor grade one yesterday and although he won well you can be sure people involved with the horse will not be getting carried away. Best to hold judgement until some quality is raced against it.

How can you be so sure it was such a poor grade one race?? PINEAU DE RE is still unexposed over hurdles and Perfect Smile, Carberry has said he's the best novice hurdler in Meade's yard in awhile and the last decent novice they had in that yard went on to win the Supreme and went off fav for the last Champion Hurdle(im not saying Perfect Smile is anywhere near as good as Go Native btw). So maybe the quality of the race shouldnt be knocked until the form has been tested.

mike65

True but the problem these days is seeing the form get proven before the "big race", we've reached the point where the top ranked horses run 3/4 times a season at most and increasingly form has to be taken on trust.

Bluetonic

Goldcupfav wrote: »

Perfect Smile, Carberry has said he's the best novice hurdler in Meade's yard in awhile and the last decent novice they had in that yard went on to win the Supreme and went off fav for the last Champion Hurdle(im not saying Perfect Smile is anywhere near as good as Go Native btw). So maybe the quality of the race shouldnt be knocked until the form has been tested.

Took it four attempts to get off it's mark at maiden level and it's jumping is seriously in question. I'd say that's enough to question it's quality.

Goldcupfav

Bluetonic wrote: »

Took it four attempts to get off it's mark at maiden level and it's jumping is seriously in question. I'd say that's enough to question it's quality.

Reached for the second flight and was slow over the last hurdle on the way around Fairyhouse. Other than that i thought he jump extremely well.
http://www.attheraces.com/VideoConsole/?va=FAI_2010_12_15_02_1220

And first time out over hurdles he was pulled up.

Second time out finished behind Stonemaster(last run beaten 8 lengths in a Grade 1) beaten a length on heavy ground that day with 8 lengths back to Frascati Park who has since been beaten a good novice of Nicky Hendersons(SPRINTER SACRE 20's for the Supreme) and been placed in three Grade 2 races.

Third time out he fell at the last when going to finish second behind Blackstairmountain who has since finished second in a grade 2 and won a grade 1 at Punchestown.

Fourth time out he broke his maiden tag winning on the bridle at Punchestown.

Point being that he wasnt beaten in any mickey mouse maidens he has run into some seriously talented horses so far.

klairondavis

Disappointing enough renewal of the Royal Bond imo but the winner looks very smart.

I'd say his Cheltenham target will be ground dependent. If there's a good ease on the first day (which there usually is due to all the watering nowadays) he'll go for the Supreme. If it's quick he'll probably go for the longer race.

I'd rather Zaidpour than Cue Card at this stage. Zaidpour will have at least two more runs before Cheltenham - Future Champions Novice or the Slaney hurdle & the Delloitte. He'll go there a battle hardened horse and Mullins will have him spot on for the day. Cue Card will not have another run between now and the festival which I think is a mistake. Tizzard said at the start of the season that he'd run him every few weeks and now he's changed tack completely. His run in the Bula was creditable but he showed his inexperience when push came to shove. He needs one or two more runs similar to his run last weekend in order to gain experience. He's only really ever had two proper runs in his life - the Cheltenham bumper and the Bula. Similar to Dunguib last season, he's learned nothing from hacking all over moderate novices like Dunraven Storm and his inexperience will count against him come March. I'd run him in either the Haydock Champion Hurdle trial or the Agfa hurdle at Sandown where he'll meet either Peddlers Cross or Binocular. He'd have a proper prep race against either of those and he'd learn a lot with a view to running in the Supreme. Inexperience isn't really an issue for Zaidpour because he's ran on the flat and he had almost a whole season of schooling last year.

premierstone

klairondavis wrote: »

Disappointing enough renewal of the Royal Bond imo but the winner looks very smart.

I'd say his Cheltenham target will be ground dependent. If there's a good ease on the first day (which there usually is due to all the watering nowadays) he'll go for the Supreme. If it's quick he'll probably go for the longer race.

I'd rather Zaidpour than Cue Card at this stage. Zaidpour will have at least two more runs before Cheltenham - Future Champions Novice or the Slaney hurdle & the Delloitte. He'll go there a battle hardened horse and Mullins will have him spot on for the day. Cue Card will not have another run between now and the festival which I think is a mistake. Tizzard said at the start of the season that he'd run him every few weeks and now he's changed tack completely. His run in the Bula was creditable but he showed his inexperience when push came to shove. He needs one or two more runs similar to his run last weekend in order to gain experience. He's only really ever had two proper runs in his life - the Cheltenham bumper and the Bula. Similar to Dunguib last season, he's learned nothing from hacking all over moderate novices like Dunraven Storm and his inexperience will count against him come March. I'd run him in either the Haydock Champion Hurdle trial or the Agfa hurdle at Sandown where he'll meet either Peddlers Cross or Binocular. He'd have a proper prep race against either of those and he'd learn a lot with a view to running in the Supreme. Inexperience isn't really an issue for Zaidpour because he's ran on the flat and he had almost a whole season of schooling last year.

How can you question cue cards form lines and ignore the fact that Zaidpour beat dirt on wednesday, yes he was visually very impressive and the vibes from Mullins are very encouraging, but be fair Cue Card has far better form as of yet and he has course form aswell. Some of Zaidpours jumping was very sketchy on Wednesday , now perhpas it was due to the fact that he was so much in control that he wasnt racing properly but I would like to see he's jumping improve before id back him, put it this way do you really think at this moment in time that Zaidpour would beat Silviniaco Conti and put Menorah to the test??

klairondavis

premierstone wrote: »

How can you question cue cards form lines and ignore the fact that Zaidpour beat dirt on wednesday, yes he was visually very impressive and the vibes from Mullins are very encouraging, but be fair Cue Card has far better form as of yet and he has course form aswell. Some of Zaidpours jumping was very sketchy on Wednesday , now perhpas it was due to the fact that he was so much in control that he wasnt racing properly but I would like to see he's jumping improve before id back him, put it this way do you really think at this moment in time that Zaidpour would beat Silviniaco Conti and put Menorah to the test??

Of course Cue Card has better form. That said I'm not sure the Bula form is that good. They ignored the pacemaker so it wasn't really a truly run race which wouldn't have suited Silvianaco Conte who is a two and a half miler. The proximity of Clerks Choice between the final two flights would also be a worry if I was an antepost supporter of any horse in that race.

I think it's very strange that Tizzard is changing tack now and sending him straight to the festival. He showed greeness when he came under pressure in the International (the first time he's ever been asked to race tbf). He looked like he could have done with a few more runs before Cheltenham and go there a battle hardened, experienced horse. I'd want to be against him at the prices now.

Cheltenham bumper winners have consistently disappointed in the Supreme. Cue Card might buck that trend but I think he'd be better off running in the Neptune. Most Cheltenham bumper winners end up as stayers and on breeding Cue Card is no different. He's out of Wicked Crack who ran in the Aintree National so he should have no problem getting a trip.

Zaidpour only beat a field of maiden winners so we don't know yet how good the opposition were. I suspect they were moderate but time will tell. The one advantage he has over Cue Card is that he has experience and tactical speed from the flat where he won over a mile. His jumping will have to improve but it should. It's not like Dunguib last year who just physically can't make a proper shape over a hurdle. Zaidpour was sticky at a few but they just looked like novicey errors to me. He'll have two more runs at least before March and he's in the care of the best trainer on this island.

premierstone

I wouldnt be so dismissive of Clerks Choice tbh, hes previous run at cheltenham where he anialated 2 top class four year olds in a time that can only be described as sensational was an excellent piece of form and he was a s short as 25s in a lot of books for the champion

mdwexford

Zaidpour will arrive at the festival without having come off the bridle.
Flat racing doesnt count as experience imo.

I would give Cue Card another run or two but if he had settled early in the Bula he may well have won.

RPR have 8lbs between them which i think flatters Zaidpour tbh.

HigginsJ

They have said Cue Card wont run again before the festival.

hucklebuck

Next season Zaidpour might be better, Cue Card would beat him this season IMO. Having said that I can't see why the Tizzards won't run him in the Champion after he got so close to Menorah. I think Menorah will take a whole lot of beating in the Champion.

Bluetonic

Point proven I would say.

conorby

Two grade ones in the space of a fortnight on heavy ground doesn't make sense to me for a novice. Can't question the trainer but was it neceaasry?

bit of a bogey

conorby wrote: »

Two grade ones in the space of a fortnight on heavy ground doesn't make sense to me for a novice. Can't question the trainer but was it neceaasry?

I know what your saying conorby but he should of been beating these out of sight. Pig of a ride from my perspective!

Technophobe

Plus one on a poor ride costing him that race....

Shane732

I think Paul gave Zaidpour a bad ride yesterday, if he'd sat closer coming around the turn then he would have had a better chance.

Nulty

Cost him the race yes but he should be beating the good horses in Ireland if he stands a chance against Cue Card. Rock on Ruby beat some goodd sorts yesterday too.

I'll forgive him yesterdays run. Even if he won he looked laboured and is ppobably better than that. Maybe not.

HigginsJ

Think Zaidpour should go for the 2m4f novice event.

minty16

I'd be taking some of the 16/1 available on Hidden Universe myself.

cathalg

I know that was well bellow par but another factor could be him going left handed for the first time its only a theory but he never looked completely at ease with himself, granted the heavy ground wouldnt have helped but I just taught I'd point that out.

john mayo 10

Shane732 wrote: »

I think Paul gave Zaidpour a bad ride yesterday, if he'd sat closer coming around the turn then he would have had a better chance.

totally agree with you on that

cathalg

I had a look at Hidden Univers and he looks a talent but Weld has a shocking record at Cheltenham.

UrbanSea

Oscar Wells clearly a very good horse. Two grade one wins,hammered Zaidpour today. Big day for Jessica Harrington and Robbie Power,two grade ones.

RichieLawlor

Zaidpour looks like a step up in trip would help

lester76

He was unlucky i think came der 3 out his stablemate seriously hampered his run when it fell in front of him i think we would of seen a diff result..But delighted 4 jess and her team and great for puppy power 2.. Great crowd at leopardstown 2day for what was a great days racing..

RichieLawlor

lester76 wrote: »

He was unlucky i think came der 3 out his stablemate seriously hampered his run when it fell in front of him i think we would of seen a diff result..But delighted 4 jess and her team and great for puppy power 2.. Great crowd at leopardstown 2day for what was a great days racing..

I think your mixed up

UrbanSea

Are you thinking of Mikael D'Haguenet

lester76

UrbanSea wrote: »

Are you thinking of Mikael D'Haguenet

sry sry meant mikael yes my bad