Raw Food Diet

Shanao

So after weeks upon weeks of searching for a pup, we've finally decided to bring an american akita into our home. It'll be another four weeks before he'll be ready to go but I'm making sure I'm well prepared. I have everything I need so far, so my question is on food. Well, the raw food diet to be specific. I was planning on doing a half raw/ half dry food diet but because of the different times these both take to pass through the digestive system I figured I might as well go with one or the other. So when it comes to raw food, does anyone have any good recipes for a large breed pup like an akita?

dahat

You can feed raw/kibble on alternate days if you wish........

no reciepe needed for raw just good supplies for meat!!!
Start out with chicken first as it is least offensive and work in other meats after a few days.
Monitor your dogs stools to see if more/less bone needed........runny poo more bone,white poo less bone!!

I feed heart as muscle meat so lamb hearts,50 cents each,beef heart,3 euro are good buys and can be got in any butchers.

If you live near cappaquin in waterford they do a 15 kilo box of pet food,mixture of meat/bone,primarily meat for 8.88.........picked up 3 today!!

80 per cent meat,10 per cent organ/liver and 10% edible bone... is what i try aim for over a week/10 days.......
Try not to get confused between RAW DIET and BARF DIET as they are completely different........
U se your hunter friends for trimmings of any kills,deer etc..........

Aim for 2/3 % of his aldut weight though some pups can consume 10% daily,your dog himself will be the best quide

andreac

You need to do your research when feeding a raw diet. Puppies need more % in raw than an adult dog so just do lots of research before feeding it. Adults are usually fedabout 2% of their bodyweight so it will be more for puppies.

Im looking into feeding my fella a half raw/half kibble diet.

What you can feed is stuff like, chicken wings/drumsticks/things etc, cuts of beef, lamb , liver, heart, chicken necks, offal.
The only thing with feeding a raw diet is the cost and trying to source all this stuff at a good price.
My fella requires about 2lbs of raw meat per day so that can add up in cost, so if you are friendly with a butcher they might do a good deal for you.

dahat

i have been feeding raw for a while now and find it cost friendly though mine are only small dogs,800 gms meat required daily.
Feeding a large breed i can imagine would be a bit more pricey..
For large breed dogs i would avoid necks,wings/thighs owing to possible choking if your dog is a gulper,perhaps feed him the whole chicken and take away what is left if does not eat it all,feed rest later!

you just gotta get real friendly with your butcher,try to buy all your meat from him as you stand a better chance of getting things for free off him.

also get a big old freezer,as big as you afford or fit......i just put 45 kilo of chicken into mine today!

TooManyDogs

Yeah feed 2 - 3% of body weight for an adult dog but pups can eat 10 - 15%. Some very active small dogs can eat 5 - 10%, my 2 terriers eat about 7%.

My dogs food bowls look like this -
80% chicken carcass
20% veggie gloop

I get the chicken carcasses from the local supermarket, they have a butcher there who bones chickens on the premesis so the left over carcass is sold for €1 per kg, there's plenty of muscle meat and organ meat still attached so I dont add extra.

My veggie gloop is made up of potatoes, carrots, parsnips, lettuce, broccoli, garlic, eggs, egg shells, bananas etc. I basically throw in anything I have in the fridge! The root vegetables have to be par cooked to help break them down. I make a big batch and then freeze it, defrosting one a day. I'll also add natural yogurt to keep farts down and glucosamine oil for my older dogs.

There's 2 schools of thought as to whether dogs need veggies - some reckon they'd eat the stomach contents of their kills so they need the veggies, others say they dont eat stomach so only need meat and bones. What I've noticed is if I miss a few days veggies my dogs turn into a herd of cows instead of a pack of dogs and eat all my grass and veggie garden!

TooManyDogs

dahat wrote: »

i have been feeding raw for a while now and find it cost friendly though mine are only small dogs,800 gms meat required daily.
Feeding a large breed i can imagine would be a bit more pricey..
For large breed dogs i would avoid necks,wings/thighs owing to possible choking if your dog is a gulper,perhaps feed him the whole chicken and take away what is left if does not eat it all,feed rest later!

you just gotta get real friendly with your butcher,try to buy all your meat from him as you stand a better chance of getting things for free off him.

also get a big old freezer,as big as you afford or fit......i just put 45 kilo of chicken into mine today!

I feed 1.5kg of meat a day so it works out at about €2 a day to feed 6 dogs.

+1 for the freezer - I just got a chest freezer and I've never been so excited about a kitchen appliance before, sad or what!

+1 for making friends with your butcher, unfortunately I'm a vegetarian so doesnt really help me but friends who also feed raw get loads of extras

dahat

@ TooManyDogs

you need to go to cappaquin chickens,1 euro per kilo is dear,i get em for free from my butcher,as well as necks as and when i please,love fellow he is!

do you not use other meats?


basically you feed a BARF based diet as opposed to a RAW based diet?

dahat

Cappaquin price list

Necks 0.88/kg 15 kilo box
Carcass 0.61/kg 15kilo box
Liver 8.80 per 2.25 kg tub
Hearts 7.48 per 2.25kg tub
Breast on bone 1.65 each,30 in a box
Things(thighs,?) 16.50 per box,50 in box
Drumsticks,raw 28.05/box,85 per box

just got this list today so posted it just in case anyone needed it.

TooManyDogs

dahat wrote: »

@ TooManyDogs

you need to go to cappaquin chickens,1 euro per kilo is dear,i get em for free from my butcher,as well as necks as and when i please,love fellow he is!

do you not use other meats?


basically you feed a BARF based diet as opposed to a RAW based diet?

I used to be alot more varied but at the moment life is a little hectic with a 9 month old baby so I go for the easiest route and pick them up with my weekly shopping. I had been getting mince and pork too but that was really winding up expensive, I used to get the bones off the local butcher and he charged me 50c/kg but he wasnt storing them well and they'd smell a bit funny so I stopped going to him. To be honest I figure feeding 6 mutts for €2 a day total isn't bad so am leaving it at that until I know which end of me is up again!

I thought BARF and raw diets were the same thing? I just found a diet that they did well on and left it at that, there's so much information out there and opposing views that I found it very easy to get information overload. I know there's a 'prey model' and 'BARF model' but I thought they were both raw?

andreac

dahat wrote: »

Cappaquin price list

Necks 0.88/kg 15 kilo box
Carcass 0.61/kg 15kilo box
Liver 8.80 per 2.25 kg tub
Hearts 7.48 per 2.25kg tub
Breast on bone 1.65 each,30 in a box
Things(thighs,?) 16.50 per box,50 in box


just got this list today so posted it just in case anyone needed it.

Do you have to call to them to buy their food or do they deliver at all??

TooManyDogs

dahat wrote: »

Cappaquin price list

Necks 0.88/kg 15 kilo box
Carcass 0.61/kg 15kilo box
Liver 8.80 per 2.25 kg tub
Hearts 7.48 per 2.25kg tub
Breast on bone 1.65 each,30 in a box
Things(thighs,?) 16.50 per box,50 in box


just got this list today so posted it just in case anyone needed it.

Do you collect them or do they deliver? And where abouts are they? ( I notice your status says Tipp so assume they're near you?) And are they fridged or frozen?

dahat

can see now why the chicken is a winner,9 month old babies tend to take over alright!!!

prey model/raw is totally meat/bone/organ

barf uses minced meat mainly,veggies,supplements etc to pulverise together to give patties as a daily meal.
My opinion is this gives the dog no satisfaction whatsoever.

i dont use veggies as to pureee them first so they can absorb the nutirents says alot.
green tripe can be used to give the veggie effect of a preys stomach.availible cheap also

TooManyDogs

andreac wrote: »

Do you have to call to them to buy their food or do they deliver at all??

Snap!

dahat

he "BARF" diet, an acronym for Biologically Appropriate Raw Food or Bones And Raw Food was created by Billinghurst. A typical BARF diet is made up of 60-80% of raw meaty bones(RMB), that is bones with about 50% meat,[13](e.g. chicken neck, back and wings) and 20-40% of fruits and vegetables, offal, meat, eggs, or dairy foods.

The "Prey model" diet attempts to simulate the proportions of an actual prey animal in a pet's diet. Actual whole prey are used whenever possible, including whole rabbits, chickens, game hens and turkeys. Generally, the diet recommends 80% meat (including some 'meaty' organs such as heart), 10% bone and 10% organs (of which half is liver).

for the OP........
RAW FEEDING GROUP ON YAHOO HAS A WHOLE LOAD IF INFO,ALSO ON FACECRAP AS WELL

dahat

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Snap!

ring and order,collect fridays mainly i think,pay at recption.
would assume delivery is not availble for small orders like we would be doing

dahat

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Do you collect them or do they deliver? And where abouts are they? ( I notice your status says Tipp so assume they're near you?) And are they fridged or frozen?

they are in co.waterford.
i collect them,bout 45 mins each way,lovely drive on the worst raods you can imagine!

TooManyDogs

dahat wrote: »

can see now why the chicken is a winner,9 month old babies tend to take over alright!!!

prey model/raw is totally meat/bone/organ

barf uses minced meat mainly,veggies,supplements etc to pulverise together to give patties as a daily meal.
My opinion is this gives the dog no satisfaction whatsoever.

i dont use veggies as to pureee them first so they can absorb the nutirents says alot.
green tripe can be used to give the veggie effect of a preys stomach.availible cheap also

I guess mine is a mix of them both then because they get the bones but also veggies too. I agree that patties isn't as much fun for the dogs, mind you I threaten them with it when I see them wipe a chicken neck all the way across my kitchen floor!

I blend the veggies up too for max absorption, it mimics the prey animals gut then, I kind of follow my dogs too and have noticed a difference when I skip veggies. Maybe I should skip the veggies in the summer, might get my grass kept down!!
I used to get minced tripe but my hubby threatened to divorce me if I kept bringing it into the house and it was frozen so didnt smell as bad as it could have! He said the smell put him off his dinner, I guess we veggies can be sensitive

dahat

Tripe is pongy alright......i have used the green stuff,horrid.........peg on the nose all the way!!

p.s....fair play for feeding as you do considering your own choice towards meat.....

TooManyDogs

dahat wrote: »

Tripe is pongy alright......i have used the green stuff,horrid.........peg on the nose all the way!!

p.s....fair play for feeding as you do considering your own choice towards meat.....

I figure humans are omnivores, happily living without meat if we choose but dogs are most definately carnivores so unfair to feed a vegetarian diet. It does mean I get funny looks when ask me what I'm going to cook with the 12kg of chicken carcasses and I tell them I'm vegetarian! Makes my week to see their faces. Jaysus, what a sad life I lead now if that's my weekly kick! :eek:

andreac

dahat wrote: »

ring and order,collect fridays mainly i think,pay at recption.
would assume delivery is not availble for small orders like we would be doing

Ah right, im not local, up in meath so wouyldnt suit, pity, sounds like a great deal.

dahat

spin down and make it a day out/weekend away,south east is a beautifull place.........

dahat

andreac wrote: »

Ah right, im not local, up in meath so wouyldnt suit, pity, sounds like a great deal.

there is a meat seller in cloghran,nearer to you.

he sells category 3 meat from slaughter houses
Category 3:
§ Material which has previously been fit for human consumption, including catering
waste, raw meat and fish, hides and skins;
§ Parts of slaughtered animals which are fit for human consumption but which are not
intended for human consumption for commercial reasons, or due to problems of
manufacturing or packaging defects;
§ Animal by-products derived from the processing of products intended for human
consumption (e.g. degreased bones and greaves);
§ Blood from non-diseased ruminants

would not recommend storing in household freezer though,also has a food dye running through it as not for humans.
he sells meat in 5lb and 10lb bags,frozen.
Also a seller as above in cork.......

TooManyDogs

Fair play to you dahat, you're a mine of information!

dahat

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Fair play to you dahat, you're a mine of information!

i have looked into an awfull lot of meat suppliers/sellers since i started......
anything to ease the pocket in these hard times!
these lads that sell meat as above used to sell primarily to greyhound owners/breeders but since the whole barf/raw explosion normal pet folk have been using them.
I found some sellers advertising on greyhound classifieds.
found wax coated shredded paper for sale too but aint tried it yet,not in any way dusty the seller said.

andreac

Thanks, is that Slaney meats? If so ive been in contact with them so will probably get some once i get paid, lol. Only thing everything is minced and i would like to feed some of it still whole and un minced, like wings etc.

dahat

yes it is slaney meats as far as i know.

as you said pity it is minced.still beats kibble every time!

check the supermarkets for cheap deals,stuff bout to go out of date.
monday morning in dunnes,early n sunday night in tesco,late!!!
weekend end non sellers going cheap at those times where i live!

wings,thighs are cheapish anyway,ok for small dogs like i have.

get on good terms with a butcher,chicken carcass are waste to them,ya should be able to get em for free or ask for necks,also waste to a butcher.

andreac

Yeah wings arent too expensive, not the tesco value ones anyway. Just would like to feed something un minced too as all mince wouldnt be great for their teeth.
Im feeding a rottweiler so its not the cheapest.

dahat

andreac wrote: »

Yeah wings arent too expensive, not the tesco value ones anyway. Just would like to feed something un minced too as all mince wouldnt be great for their teeth.
Im feeding a rottweiler so its not the cheapest.

my advice...buy whole chickens for him.
ya can get two for 6 euro at times,throw him the lot and let him have a whole load of fun!!!....he will love you for it!!.wings are too small for him,choking hazard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yuu_etsc_0Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhqJyvNzA7Q&playnext=1&list=PLFCE578BB2F7FCA3B&index=14

andreac

dahat wrote: »

my advice...buy whole chickens for him.
ya can get two for 6 euro at times,throw him the lot and let him have a whole load of fun!!!....he will love you for it!!.wings are too small for him,choking hazard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yuu_etsc_0Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhqJyvNzA7Q&playnext=1&list=PLFCE578BB2F7FCA3B&index=14

Great video, but theres no way that dog is 12 stone!! My fella is 50 kg and is a big rottie. So theres no way that dog is 5 stone heavier than my fella. Anyway, thats off topic, lol.

My fella eats raw very slowly, even the wings, so theres no way he would eat a whole chicken. Hes not mad keen for the raw so have to encourage him to eat it as he find the texture of the meat funny i think so i have no problem with a risk from choking.

sligopark

RAW/BARF?

sligopark wrote: »

Just got a terrier pup - any thoughts on this diet?

1. Green tripe (fresh washed not bleached) - plenty main ingredient
2. Marrow again plenty
3. Lamb breast (?) and /or beef cheek / head cuts
4. Salmon belly cuts and heads
5. Green leaves - (cabbage, broccolli, lettuce - all washed)
6. Liver (fresh not pork)

all mixed (minced if wished) and to be mixed with wholemeal biscuit kibble

dahat

sligopark wrote: »

RAW/BARF?

tbh,dump the kibble,different digestion times..........will only create stomach problems.never ever feed both in same meal,never.
then it a a variation of raw.......

EthicRanger

http://greensmoothiesblog.com/green-smoothies-for-pets/

Does anyone has good blender like VitaMix or Blendtec to do job on natural food for pets?

Also If you agree, that we should treat ourselves equally or better than hour pets or cars, so join us http://sn.im/IrishRawFood
I'm wondering what percentage of raw are discussion members themselves?

The group creator has intention to provide info about BARF, but it never happened, so, if somebody would like to join and get information, meet sometimes, ye join us.

Thanks Cormie (VanTasks.ie) for attention on this

dahat

EthicRanger wrote: »

http://greensmoothiesblog.com/green-smoothies-for-pets/

Does anyone has good blender like VitaMix or Blendtec to do job on natural food for pets?

Also If you agree, that we should treat ourselves equally or better than hour pets or cars, so join us http://sn.im/IrishRawFood
I'm wondering what percentage of raw are discussion members themselves?

The group creator has intention to provide info about BARF, but it never happened, so, if somebody would like to join and get information, meet sometimes, ye join us.

Thanks Cormie (VanTasks.ie) for attention on this

off topic???????

sligopark

dahat wrote: »

tbh,dump the kibble,different digestion times..........will only create stomach problems.never ever feed both in same meal,never.
then it a a variation of raw.......

Thanks Dahat - should it be chopped and mixed or minced together?

Any advice as to the various component amounts - like 80% tripe and so on? How much greens?

Graces7

dahat wrote: »

Cappaquin price list

Necks 0.88/kg 15 kilo box
Carcass 0.61/kg 15kilo box
Liver 8.80 per 2.25 kg tub
Hearts 7.48 per 2.25kg tub
Breast on bone 1.65 each,30 in a box
Things(thighs,?) 16.50 per box,50 in box
Drumsticks,raw 28.05/box,85 per box

just got this list today so posted it just in case anyone needed it.

When we moved to West Cork; we found Shannonvale Foods near Clonakility... Ten k packs of chicken necks for E3 and legs for E6 for 10 k.. wingds for E4 for 10 k. The dogs and cats get very well fed now and so do we. They all make excellent soup and the dogs and cats eat that too for the vegetables. Butchers here will give meaty scraps and bones also.

dahat

did land a few scraps from butchers but they tended to be very fatty really.

i find the lamb hearts extremely good valuue,will often buy a large piece of pork if it on special in supermarket for em.
going to look into buying meat from the farmer as in,half lambs etc.seen 20kg of pork advertised for 90 euro direct from farmer.just soak it in water twice to remove salt content before serving.
It is best to vary meats as much as possible,i found when my dogs got alot of chicken they tended to lose weight as it is a very lean meat

Graces7

dahat wrote: »

did land a few scraps from butchers but they tended to be very fatty really.

i find the lamb hearts extremely good valuue,will often buy a large piece of pork if it on special in supermarket for em.
going to look into buying meat from the farmer as in,half lambs etc.seen 20kg of pork advertised for 90 euro direct from farmer.just soak it in water twice to remove salt content before serving.
It is best to vary meats as much as possible,i found when my dogs got alot of chicken they tended to lose weight as it is a very lean meat

Collie needs to lose weight; she was half starved for her hearly years and her metabolism is still crazy.. and the butcher's scraps add the fats she needs. Chicken skin as on legs and wings is fatty too.. the necks are perfect for her too. Pork still should always be cooked.

dahat

Graces7 wrote: »

Collie needs to lose weight; she was half starved for her hearly years and her metabolism is still crazy.. and the butcher's scraps add the fats she needs. Chicken skin as on legs and wings is fatty too.. the necks are perfect for her too. Pork still should always be cooked.

from my research online once pork is produced to human standards it is fine..i may or may not be wrong. dogs have a far better system to deal with bugs than we have.intestinal tract is far shorter,stomach ph is far higher so not a good place for bugs.I never had a problem with raw pork.
Chicken necks are the bomb though alot more bone than meat so i tend to avoid other boned chicken.Bone in the neck is sufficent.

Graces7

dahat wrote: »

from my research online once pork is produced to human standards it is fine..i may or may not be wrong. dogs have a far better system to deal with bugs than we have.intestinal tract is far shorter,stomach ph is far higher so not a good place for bugs.I never had a problem with raw pork.
Chicken necks are the bomb though alot more bone than meat so i tend to avoid other boned chicken.Bone in the neck is sufficent.

Our nutritionist says else where any pig meat is involved. So we stay with that. Anyways pork is far too costly for us. The chicken is fine; last wek we got necks and legs; a total of 20 kg for E9.

Good for our cats too of course.

dahat

Graces7 wrote: »

Our nutritionist says else where any pig meat is involved. So we stay with that. Anyways pork is far too costly for us. The chicken is fine; last wek we got necks and legs; a total of 20 kg for E9.

Good for our cats too of course.

if in doubt freeze the hell out of it,some freeze pork for 20 days to kill any bacteria.
good deal on the necks and legs,some nice muscle meat with either of those and bang,lovely doggie dinner!

TooManyDogs

dahat wrote: »

if in doubt freeze the hell out of it,some freeze pork for 20 days to kill any bacteria.
good deal on the necks and legs,some nice muscle meat with either of those and bang,lovely doggie dinner!

+1
Freezing pork kills the bacteria and means it's then safe to eat raw

butcher75

I feed a half raw, half nuts/biscuit diet. I get good quality tripe, chicken with bone, beef or lamb. I get them all minced and frozen. Dogs doing great on it.

andreac

butcher75 wrote: »

I feed a half raw, half nuts/biscuit diet. I get good quality tripe, chicken with bone, beef or lamb. I get them all minced and frozen. Dogs doing great on it.

Do you mind me asking where you get this and what kind of price you paying?
Thanks:)

Graces7

TooManyDogs wrote: »

+1
Freezing pork kills the bacteria and means it's then safe to eat raw

OK; still would not trust it and cannot afford it even for ourselves. There is not the need.

dahat

for all raw feeders it is best to vary your meat as best you can if not adding veggie pulp to dogs diet.
80% meat is what you are after ideally.
BARF diets are totally different so other rules apply..

sidenote,gave 5 week old pups some raw mince today,hoovered the stuff up,well pleased.
mince for a few days now then a change of meat to chicken,try some veg pulp then,non greens,carrots mainly.

Graces7

dahat wrote: »

for all raw feeders it is best to vary your meat as best you can if not adding veggie pulp to dogs diet.
80% meat is what you are after ideally.
BARF diets are totally different so other rules apply..

sidenote,gave 5 week old pups some raw mince today,hoovered the stuff up,well pleased.
mince for a few days now then a change of meat to chicken,try some veg pulp then,non greens,carrots mainly.

Not needful.

dahat

Graces7 wrote: »

Not needful.

?????

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problem?