Brain Transplants

Motley Crue

I remember mentioning this once in school years and years ago. I must have been really young but I remember saying that I hoped one day, far in the future, people could have their brains transplanted so that when someone reaches the end of their life they can have another, perhaps in the body of a young person who died of brain death themselves.

Do people think this will ever happen?

An arguably more reasonable scenario is a partial brain transplant involving only enough tissue to provide key memories and a sense of continuity of identity. A fairly large but indeterminate amount of the brain is devoted to processing and controlling sensory, motor, and autonomic functions such as vision, olfaction, movement, appetite, etc.; transplanting these portions is likely to be difficult and, if the goal is to transfer memories and/or identity, unnecessary. The recipient body of such a transplant probably would have to possess a naïve and never-conscious brain or partial brain, such as in a never-conscious cloned soma. This is the premise of I of Persistence, a human life-extension manifesto and science fiction story. In that story, the older transplanted brain tissue is eventually removed and replaced with youthful tissue, restoring complete youthfulness with continuity (or persistence) of conscious identity.

In 1982 Dr. Dorothy T. Krieger, chief of endocrinology at Mount Sinai Medical Center in New York City, achieved notable success with a partial brain transplant in mice.[1] A partial brain transplant would accomplish essentially the same goal — movement of a person's "identity" from one body to another — and thus qualify as a whole-body transplant no less than a full brain transplant. As Dr. Krieger demonstrated, barriers to accomplishing this feat might be much lower than transplantation of the entire brain.

In 1998, a team of surgeons from the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center attempted to transplant a group of brain cells to Alma Cerasini, who had suffered a severe stroke that caused the loss of mobility in her right limbs as well as limited speech. The team's hope was that the cells would correct the listed damage.

After all, we only use 1/10 of our brain's capacity in our lifetime, and the knowledge of 10 lifetimes would be something incredible - imagine being able to live an average 800 years....

I should have sued Star Trek DS9 though, because they kind of stole "my" idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trill_(Star_Trek)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAJhqwfyHf8

challengemaster

Would never work, far too many complications..

HeadPig

Motley Crue wrote: »

I remember mentioning this once in school years and years ago. I must have been really young but I remember saying that I hoped one day, far in the future, people could have their brains transplanted so that when someone reaches the end of their life they can have another, perhaps in the body of a young person who died of brain death themselves.

Do people think this will ever happen?

After all, we only use 1/10 of our brain's capacity in our lifetime, and the knowledge of 10 lifetimes would be something incredible - imagine being able to live an average 800 years....

I should have sued Star Trek DS9 though, because they kind of stole "my" idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trill_(Star_Trek)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAJhqwfyHf8

*Sigh*

Snakeblood

Motley Crue wrote: »

I remember mentioning this once in school years and years ago. I must have been really young but I remember saying that I hoped one day, far in the future, people could have their brains transplanted so that when someone reaches the end of their life they can have another, perhaps in the body of a young person who died of brain death themselves.

Do people think this will ever happen?

After all, we only use 1/10 of our brain's capacity in our lifetime, and the knowledge of 10 lifetimes would be something incredible - imagine being able to live an average 800 years....

I should have sued Star Trek DS9 though, because they kind of stole "my" idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trill_(Star_Trek)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAJhqwfyHf8

Er. Who says we only use 1/10th of capacity? I'm using practically everything I haven't killed with booze yet.

Tomebagel

challengemaster wrote: »

Would never work, far too many complications..

Think positive dude..

bonerm

Motley Crue wrote: »

I should have sued Star Trek DS9 though, because they kind of stole "my" idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trill_(Star_Trek)

FFS. Get yer Star Trek right!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spock's_Brain

alwaysadub

I can't see it ever happening in our lifetime but i'm not well up on the subject.

If it did happen though, would you end up as smart or dumb as the person who's brain you have? Like what if you were some really smart scientist, and ended up with a brain like mine?

Motley Crue

alwaysadub wrote: »

If it did happen though, would you end up as smart or dumb as the person who's brain you have? Like what if you were some really smart scientist, and ended up with a brain like mine?

I would imagine in this sense that either a brain would be transplanted from one corporal host to another, since a lot of people in their 80's could easily do what a person in their 20's would be able to if they had a healthier physical structure, or that partially the memories of both brains could be merged together and you would form a deeper understanding of life from both collection of memories, views and theories

Snakeblood wrote: »

Er. Who says we only use 1/10th of capacity? I'm using practically everything I haven't killed with booze yet.

A fraction of our brains, about 10% is composed of neurons, which on brain scans can be shown to be active. 90% of the human brain is made up of glial cells, which have very different functions than neurons. Through the use of brain mapping, it has been observed that in normal thought processes, the brain is in constant activity, no matter if we are sleeping or awake. It is important to note that we don't use the entire portion, or fraction of our brains that have neurons at the same time.

Firing of all neurons at once would cause seizures and possibly brain death. In this sense, we are not using all 10% of the supposed fraction of our brains we do use. But we are using glial cells as well as neurons in order to think, act, feel and move. Therefore, we’re using much more than a one tenth fraction of our brains at any given time. Not all of it can be mapped in the same way that neurons can be.

It seems that I have been mistaken on that issue all these years, but surely a brain transplant would still be possible.

The Waltzing Consumer

Motley Crue wrote: »

After all, we only use 1/10 of our brain's capacity in our lifetime, and the knowledge of 10 lifetimes would be something incredible - imagine being able to live an average 800 years....

The "we only use 1/10 of our brains" is as realistic as the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It is a myth and has no basis in science.

Princess Peach

Well when I die I'll have them freeze my brain in the hopes that it will happen in the future.

My mind is valuable to our society.

Duggy747

Brain transplant will definitely not happen in our life time, the mechanics into hooking the brain up to the spine / nerves would be an almost impossible job. Then there's training the brain to use the body it's in. They already have enough grief dealing with the eye and the spine.

Plus, how irritating would it be that doctors transplant a 70 year old's brain into a 20 year old's body only for the brain to develop alzheimer's from old age :pac:

I say install USB ports into people's heads so you can make daily backups of yourself and copy them over to another fresh meat of a body. :P

Snakeblood

Motley Crue wrote: »

A fraction of our brains, about 10% is composed of neurons, which on brain scans can be shown to be active. 90% of the human brain is made up of glial cells, which have very different functions than neurons. Through the use of brain mapping, it has been observed that in normal thought processes, the brain is in constant activity, no matter if we are sleeping or awake. It is important to note that we don't use the entire portion, or fraction of our brains that have neurons at the same time.

Firing of all neurons at once would cause seizures and possibly brain death. In this sense, we are not using all 10% of the supposed fraction of our brains we do use. But we are using glial cells as well as neurons in order to think, act, feel and move. Therefore, we’re using much more than a one tenth fraction of our brains at any given time. Not all of it can be mapped in the same way that neurons can be.

It seems that I have been mistaken on that issue all these years, but surely a brain transplant would still be possible.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing that the basic science is good

Here's a documentary:
http://www.archive.org/download/SUSPENSE/44-05-18_Donovans_Brain_Part_1.mp3
http://www.archive.org/download/SUSPENSE/44-05-25_Donovans_Brain_Part_2.mp3

Misanthrope

It's already been done with baboons in the late 60s.The scientist who oversaw the experiment also kept a human brain alive in a tank,for something like 15- 20 hours, and managed to stimulate normal physical responses to various stimuli.

The research was kept hush at the time for a multitude of reasons.But the head scientist gave a video deposition including footage of the actual experiments.If you search for it you''l find it.It is disturbing for a lot of people, so you are warned.

Given what was accomplished in the 60s we should by now have it conquered.The existentialist and ethical issues that arise from this are far greater than any of the technical/biological hurdles.

If available as a service today,it is the preserve of the elite,people you or I have never even heard of.It will, like many cures and fixes, never be open to 99.999% of us.If we all undertook such a process we would have to stop reproducing.

I will try and find you more links to this but here is a recent interview with the guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8On7rktFZME

orourkeda

Motley Crue wrote: »

I remember mentioning this once in school years and years ago. I must have been really young but I remember saying that I hoped one day, far in the future, people could have their brains transplanted so that when someone reaches the end of their life they can have another, perhaps in the body of a young person who died of brain death themselves.

Do people think this will ever happen?



After all, we only use 1/10 of our brain's capacity in our lifetime, and the knowledge of 10 lifetimes would be something incredible - imagine being able to live an average 800 years....

I should have sued Star Trek DS9 though, because they kind of stole "my" idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trill_(Star_Trek)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAJhqwfyHf8

One of the worlds greatest urban myths.

If you think about it for a second, if you cut 90% of your brain out would you perform to the same level?

Snakeblood

orourkeda wrote: »

One of the worlds greatest urban myths.

If you think about it for a second, if you cut 90% of your brain out would you perform to the same level?

No, I'd end up a politician.

00112984

Snakeblood wrote: »

I haven't killed with booze yet.

"A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. When the herd is hunted, the slow and weak at the back are killed first. The speed and health of the herd keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members.

"In the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as its slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. Naturally, it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first.

"In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers."
- Cliff Clavin

--Kaiser--

Motley Crue wrote: »

After all, we only use 1/10 of our brain's capacity in our lifetime

Utter ****e I'm afraid. Brain scans have demonstrated that we use pretty much all of our brains

Princess Peach

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Utter ****e I'm afraid. Brain scans have demonstrated that we use pretty much all of our brains

I know people to whom this statement is completely untrue.

partyatmygaff

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Utter ****e I'm afraid. Brain scans have demonstrated that we use pretty much all of our brains

All 255 of them.

kincsem

Surgeons would be mega-depressed doing chav / skanger brain transplants on the health service. They could be doing something useful like cosmetic surgery.

Snakeblood

00112984 wrote: »

"A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. When the herd is hunted, the slow and weak at the back are killed first. The speed and health of the herd keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members.

"In the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as its slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. Naturally, it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first.

"In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers."
- Cliff Clavin

God bless Cliffy.

bonerm

kincsem wrote: »

Surgeons would be mega-depressed doing chav / skanger brain transplants on the health service. They could be doing something useful like cosmetic surgery.

At least if they dropped one on the floor during the operation it wouldn't matter as most are interchangeable.

--Kaiser--

partyatmygaff wrote: »

All 255 of them.

Goddamn it, LOL

thebigbiffo

Duggy747 wrote: »

I say install USB ports into people's heads so you can make daily backups of yourself and copy them over to another fresh meat of a body. :P

funnily enough it's this kind of thinking that's actually closer to reality than an actual brain transplant according to a couple of articles i read recently - i'll try find and link laters...i'm just lazy:pac:

the gist of it is that they reckon the technology could be there in future to 'map' your entire brains function, memories etc onto a 'hard drive' which in essense should allow your conciousness to live on in an artificial environment or possibly 'transplanted' into a 'formatted' human brain...

ok, my over use of quotation marks here points to the fact i dont know a whole lot about it, i'll try find the blurb and edit with a link...

aaaahhhh ha! mind uploading (a hypothetical process)! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading

anniehoo

Theres been attempts at head transplants on alot of animals even as far back as the early 1900s. None of the animals survived very long. But, i remember watching a ridiculously disturbing documentary last year about a neurosurgeon who transplanted 2 monkeys heads. One actually lived for a good bit and could smell, hear and taste apparently. It was very weird to watch. The complications behind doing such a thing are immense to be honest and theres no way we'll see it in our lifetime.

Also how weird would that be, walking around with someone elses brain..never mind someone elses head!

thebigbiffo

anniehoo wrote: »

Theres been attempts at head transplants on alot of animals even as far back as the early 1900s. None of the animals survived very long. But, i remember watching a ridiculously disturbing documentary last year about a neurosurgeon who transplanted 2 monkeys heads. One actually lived for a good bit and could smell, hear and taste apparently. It was very weird to watch. The complications behind doing such a thing are immense to be honest and theres no way we'll see it in our lifetime.

take a look at this for some freak s'hit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJC5-G7KnKY

anniehoo

thebigbiffo wrote: »

take a look at this for some freak s'hit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJC5-G7KnKY

Is that the 2 headed dog one...leggin it out the door now will watch it later? Think that was one of the first ever experiments done. Unfortunately this kind of experimentation will always have to be done on animals. Not that i totally disagree to be honest. To advance in medicine we wouldnt be as far as we are without doing it, just very sad to watch. Theres no way this would ever be repeated on live human beings until all techniques had been perfected in animals first.

karlog

Just remembered that episode from friends.

Ross: What? A brain transplant?
Joey: Yes, its a highly controversial procedure.
Ross: It's ridiculous!
Joey: Well, I think it's ridiculous that you haven't sex in three and a half months.
Ross: It's winter. There are fewer people on the street.

Pookah

I saw an episode of Bodyshock where it showed patients who had recieved heart transplants and 5-10% of patients started to exhibit personality traits of the donors, engaging in activities in which they'd never shown any interest etc, but which were traits of the donor.

A little on it here (a Daily mail link is the best I can do, on short notice)...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-558256/I-given-young-mans-heart---started-craving-beer-Kentucky-Fried-Chicken-My-daughter-said-I-walked-like-man.html

My point being, a brain transplant may not be sufficient, in order to transplant someone's personality, emotional being etc.

orourkeda

Pookah wrote: »

I saw an episode of Bodyshock where it showed patients who had recieved heart transplants and 5-10% of patients started to exhibit personality traits of the donors, engaging in activities in which they'd never shown any interest etc, but which were traits of the donor.

A little on it here (a Daily mail link is the best I can do, on short notice)...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-558256/I-given-young-mans-heart---started-craving-beer-Kentucky-Fried-Chicken-My-daughter-said-I-walked-like-man.html

My point being, a brain transplant may not be sufficient, in order to transplant someone's personality, emotional being etc.

But the brain is the centre of everything. It controls pretty much everything about human behaviour. I find it difficult to grasp how the heart, a pump in essence, can have the power to transfer personality traits from a person to an organ recipient

SugarHigh

orourkeda wrote: »

But the brain is the centre of everything. It controls pretty much everything about human behaviour. I find it difficult to grasp how the heart, a pump in essence, can have the power to transfer personality traits from a person to an organ recipient

I think your heart rate can affect your personalty in the sense people who's blood preassure shoots up easily might handle a sitation differently. Things like breathing rates also affect tour personalty and some anxiety disorders can be treated by teaching breathing techniques. So basically all of your body affects who you are.

If you were only 5" tall your personalty probably would have developed differently. On QI they even mentioned that which nostril you mostly breathe through can affect how your brain works.

GreeBo

thebigbiffo wrote: »

take a look at this for some freak s'hit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJC5-G7KnKY

That is so wrong.
Clearly if you are going to attach two dogs to each other you have two options:
1) Tail to tail so they can run both directions
or
2) Back to back so they can always land on their feet.

That'd show them damn cats.