Which Laws apply when Council is home owner (landlord)?

daisling

Hi my house was an affordable house but council can not close sale for another 4 years aprox. due to the developer and council fighting it out in court. I agreed to purchase in Oct 2008 and paid €7,500 in deposit given keys in April 2009 and have occupied since no lease or licence in place no rent paid. In the meantime I was let go so can no longer purchase house. Agreed in April 2010 to be changed to social tenant. Have been chasing council since April 2010 to send lease. On 8th Oct 2010 sent a differential rent form by council but sent email asking to see lease heads and can i have my money back. Have chased since. They emailed me today saying all €7,500 would be used as back rent and I would get lease when i started paying rent. Now if this was private landlord i could hammer them with RTA 2004 but as it is LA don't know what applies.

Victor

It would be the housing acts and possibly the local governments acts.

However, as there are multiple acts, they need to be read together carefully, something that can be tricky even for professionals.

It might be useful to talk to Threshold or you local citizens advice bureau.

www.threshold.ie
www.citizensinformation.ie

daisling

Have tried both neither can help have tried solicitor no help either, no precedent and LA's don't have to follow RTA. I am so lost and don't know where to turn

daisling

Have tried both neither can help have tried solicitor no help either, no precedent and LA's don't have to follow RTA. I am so lost and don't know where to turn

Sand Wedge

What is the issue here. The LA has kept the €7,500 for the 12 months rent to April 2010. That is €625 per month rent. What type of property is it?

daisling

The issue is that the council will not issue a lease but want to keep €7,500 as rent. They are calculating the rent at exactly €7,500 for 8 months rent to keep the money. This will be back rent. Then they want me to pay 10% of my income in the future. My argument is that my income has not changed so how can my rent be €235 pw then drop to €24 pw (10% of current income pw) when income is the same. I want them to issue lease and return €7,500 then discuss if back rent applies.

ricman

Get advice from threshold or centrecare, see www.threshold.ie ,they would need to see any documents ,letters you got from the council.
its possible the council may have the right to charge you 7k, and there is a legal cost in buying a home, so deposits are non refundable even if the sale is not completed .threshold staff are experienced is dealing with the council and social housing.
i know a friend who bought from the council ,there were significant admin/ legal fees to be paid.

daisling

It was not a non refundable deposit and the council have acknowledged this. They have said they are refunding it so that is not the issue. They are charging €7,500 for rent as I said I have contacted threshold and they can not offer any further help and advised me to contact ombudsman who told me I would have a case but may get evicted in the process as I have no lease. Council will not issue lease.

Victor

daisling wrote: »

In the meantime I was let go so can no longer purchase house.

daisling wrote: »

My argument is that my income has not changed

Surely it has changed?

daisling

I have been unemployed since July 2009 they propose charging rent from March 2010 and my income has not changed since then.

samina

how can the ombudsman say that you wil be evicted if as they say you have a valid comlaint? what did the ombudsman say about obtaining hte lease from the council?

daisling

They agree that I have rights in relation to the sale, but now that I am unemployed and living in the house without a lease I dont have a right to stay in the house. I am not a tenant or squatter I am nothing in law and the house belongs to the council. I want to stay in the house as it is very much my home.

Elle Collins

€7.500 is peanuts to pay to skip years and years ahead of others waiting on social housing lists, especially when your rent is going to be feck-all from here on out. It obviously wasn't your intention to fast track yourself into a council house but circumstances have provided you with that opportunity.

I would not even dream of rocking the boat with the council if I were you. You're doing very well for yourself here, you just don't seem to know it.

daisling

God I am glad you are in a position to see €7,500 as such a trivial matter. I however am on an income of €220 pw. I had a 100% mortgage on the property and this money was to furnish it. I borrowed the money and have been paying it back since. I am not going on a holiday or spending spree with the money I am paying it back to my Dad and bank.

Elle Collins

I do not see seven and a half thousand euros as a trivial matter OP, but I would consider it small potatoes compared to the donkeys years other people have to wait on housing lists in this country. My point is that you are very very lucky to have bypassed that. If you'd had to wait the 10/12 years other people have to wait for their homes you would better appreciate that you can't buy back that time, not for €7.500 or any other amount of money.

daisling

Not that it is relevant to this issue but I did wait 8 years on the list and was offered a social house in the same area which I refused because I was in a position to afford a mortgage at the time.

abccormac

daisling wrote: »

I had a 100% mortgage on the property and this money was to furnish it.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but how were you not in a position to buy the house if you drew down the mortgage?

Elle Collins

daisling wrote: »

Not that it is relevant to this issue but I did wait 8 years on the list and was offered a social house in the same area which I refused because I was in a position to afford a mortgage at the time.

Sorry but your story is getting more difficult to follow or understand. Why would anyone who was years on the housing list turn down a council house for a 100% mortgage, especially when they then had to borrow even to furnish? I appreciate you say you were working then so things were different financially, but your story still isn't adding up to me or making any sense. I've never heard of anyone turning down a council house with differential rent at 10% (and the future option to buy at a discount of 3% per year) in order to buy a house up the road at a 100% mortgage! :eek:

Also, my personal opinion is that anyone who had to take out a 100% mortgage to begin with cannot afford that mortgage, regardless what the bank has to say about it.

All this is getting off-topic to your query though - what it seems to me must have happened here is that the council are collating your back rent at the rate from when you were working. It seems that they must be charging you rent from prior to when you lost your job. Are they charging you rent from the date you signed something to do with the house prior to when you lost your job? I suspect that they have to be.

Like I said I think you're in a far more fortunate positon than many, but if you are bound and determined to get your money back and are certain that you don't owe that rent then I'd advise you to contact a local TD/Councillor and see what they can do for you.

Elle Collins

abccormac wrote: »

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but how were you not in a position to buy the house if you drew down the mortgage?

She lost her job.

Jo King

abccormac wrote: »

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but how were you not in a position to buy the house if you drew down the mortgage?

The mortgage was approved but never drawn down.

The laws which apply in this case are very complex. There are issues of public law and landlord and tenant law. The costs of any action against the Council would be prohibitive given that there is €7.5k in issue.

MRBEAVER

Ombududsman has already ruled on this issue. Council in Cork offered people Affordable Housing in several estates but then made them pay rent instead of mortgage. Ombudsman ruled that Council could evict residents as they saw fit and use deposits for rent. Threshold will not provide any advice or assistance if Council is involved.