Relationship and Money Issues

LegacyUser

Hi guys,

I really need some fresh advice in my situation so I'd appreciate anything you all have to offer

Basically I met and fell in love with a man months back. We are not at the stage where we are talking about moving in together at some stage next year. He has his own house and obviously a mortgage. During the boom times he was, as a builder, working a lot and earning a lot but now during the recession things aren't quite so good. He still works for himself as a bulider when there is work but he also has another job. He is in arrears with his mortgage but is doing the best he can. He also has a daughter which he looks after.

I have a good job, well paid, I earn more than he does. My dilemma is that about moving in together. Should I put my sensible head on and not move in with a man with money worries? A friend of mine thinks I'm crazy and my mother does as well. We actually stopped spaeking at one stage because of her attitude, she thinks I 'can do better'. I love this man, I'm 29 and he's 34. We're not kids, he's not a scrounger, far from it, he treats me like a queen, not only with material things when he can but with the things that matter. But I have to look at it, he's in arrears, he may lose the house, lots of people are the same I know. When we move in though we would split things and it would work out but I don't want to feel pressured to move in just to help him out either. I'm so confused I don't know where I am coming from.

Will it stop me from doing things I want to? Going away with friends for a week? Will he resent this in time, doing my Masters which I have been saving to do....Will I start to resent him in time, I am worried about this. He's a hard worker, a grafter so he's not just lazing about. He's a good man, a good father, partner, friend to me but this niggles at me.

I just don't know what to do

Distorted

Depending on how bad the debt is on the house, it you are moving in, you should be looking to be added onto the title deeds and mortgage. The lender might be quite prepared to do this if you earn a good salary. Your salary should help pay the mortgage and the risk you are taking on will be equivalent to whatever he has put into building the house and financing it so far. But as I say, it depends on the exact financial situation. Speak to the mortgage lender - and him, obviously!

tbh I wouldn't consider moving in with a man and contributing financially without being added to the title deeds. If the man says no, then I would be saying no to moving in as well. I wouldn't let the fact that he has debts put you off him if you really love him. Its true, you might be held back but relationships are invariably compromises. However, property is a good and worthwhile investment to put your money in. It might be that things will pick up by the time you do your masters and the property can be sold for a
profit or something. Only you know how bad the situation is with his debts.

I'm not sure why he is considered such a bad bet by your mother and your friend - whats better - a permanent student or stay at home mummy's boy who doesn't have his own place at the age of 34?

LegacyUser

Thanks for your reply Distorted. He's about 20k in arrears, he is hoping they could freeze the arrears and let him pay the rest and come back to the rest but I don't really know how that works. Between the 2 of us we could easily cover the mortgage. He would be very willing to add me but I don't know if I want that as I'm not sure of the pros and cons. He's going to talk to the bank and mortgage advisor next week and asked do I want to come along. I think I will.

It is a big commitment, I love him and I don't doubt that, I'm just scared and worried as to how this could affect our future. Thinking straight I don't think it could hold me back, I've travelled and lived abroad so that's out of my system, a trip every so often is enough for me with him or friends. I've saved for my Masters and I won't use that for anything else but my Masters. But you are right relationships are compromises and I am very independent and so used to looking after myself that I am finding this difficult to get my head around.

Oh I am not worried about what others think, it is my life. My mother is difficult at times, she had this idea in her head of who she wanted me to be with and my partner is not like the idea so she doesn't like him. Doesn't matter that he treats me well and makes me happy.

I suppose I just wanted some reassurance that this debt and mortgage business isn't enough to walk away because I don't want that but don't know how to deal with that. Obviously I didn't plan on falling in love with a man in debt :P Such is life I suppose!

Distorted wrote: »

Depending on how bad the debt is on the house, it you are moving in, you should be looking to be added onto the title deeds and mortgage. The lender might be quite prepared to do this if you earn a good salary. Your salary should help pay the mortgage and the risk you are taking on will be equivalent to whatever he has put into building the house and financing it so far. But as I say, it depends on the exact financial situation. Speak to the mortgage lender - and him, obviously!

tbh I wouldn't consider moving in with a man and contributing financially without being added to the title deeds. If the man says no, then I would be saying no to moving in as well. I wouldn't let the fact that he has debts put you off him if you really love him. Its true, you might be held back but relationships are invariably compromises. However, property is a good and worthwhile investment to put your money in. It might be that things will pick up by the time you do your masters and the property can be sold for a
profit or something. Only you know how bad the situation is with his debts.

I'm not sure why he is considered such a bad bet by your mother and your friend - whats better - a permanent student or stay at home mummy's boy who doesn't have his own place at the age of 34?

Miss Fluff

Is he in a position to rent out his property to cover his mortgage and then both of you move into a rental property and both start off on an equal footing with a clean slate? That would seem the fairest thing to do.

I have no doubt he is a great guy, he certainly sounds like a nice bloke etc but I think if you were to get your name on the deeds (of a property heavily in arrears) you would really need sound legal advice before making any decisions. You need to do this rather than going on a public forum where people don't actually know the long-term implications of such a big move. Go and see a solicitor.

Moomoo1

Goldig wrote: »

But I have to look at it, he's in arrears, he may lose the house, lots of people are the same I know. When we move in though we would split things and it would work out but I don't want to feel pressured to move in just to help him out either. I'm so confused I don't know where I am coming from.

frankly I don't know where you are coming from either

so you profess to love this guy and at the same time find the idea of helping him out materially problematic? Why would you rather give money in rent to a landlord you don't know than to your own partner for a mortgage?

why?

Moomoo1

Miss Fluff wrote: »

Is he in a position to rent out his property to cover his mortgage and then both of you move into a rental property and both start off on an equal footing with a clean slate? That would seem the fairest thing to do.

I have no doubt he is a great guy, he certainly sounds like a nice bloke etc but I think if you were to get your name on the deeds (of a property heavily in arrears) you would really need sound legal advice before making any decisions. You need to do this rather than going on a public forum where people don't actually know the long-term implications of such a big move. Go and see a solicitor.

I wouldn't put the name on the deeds. It would presumably cost money to do so, and cost money be taken off. I am not sure it's worth it this early in the game.

I'd just treat it as I were a tenant renting from this guy. That way there'd be no problems if things were to not work out.

Acoshla

OP I moved in with my boyfriend when he had €16,000 debt separate to his mortgage, he was struggling to pay all of it, but it didn't put me off one bit. To be very callous and practical, it's not your debt, if you were really uncomfortable with it or it got considerably worse or something you could always just leave again, but no point talking yourself out of it in case it goes wrong, it mightn't.

I pay my boyfriend rent, as someone else mentioned it's just like an average tenant agreement, so it's still his house and mortgage, he just gets my rent towards it too, which really helped him out before he got the €16,000 paid off. His debt never really affected us, I'm trying to think back now and I can't think of any instance where it made a difference to plans etc, and I wasn't earning much then either, so if you have a good wage you'll be fine.

The man you have described sounds lovely, and I would be more worried if he was lazy and didn't care about paying his debt. I personally would say go for it.

I am a friend

Can he rent out the house to help pay the arrears and then the two of ye rent a place together...

You would need to pay stamp duty to get on the deeds and I would strongly recommend AGAINST it. You only know this guy a few months and you are willing to take on his mortgage and his arrears. Please remember that but putting your name on the deeds, the Bank will want you to put your name on his mortgage. If further payments are missed it will affect YOUR credit rating as well as his and you dont, and cant, know him well enough yet to take this risk.

Also, maybe I am just a romantic but you should be moving in with him cos you cant bear to live without each other and not just to pay his loans... Does he have a car / jeep? Can he downsize this and pay off some of his loans etc... There are other options than you rushing in to save the day.

Think long and hard on this one - while it may be the truth, the siutaiton may be the truth as he sees it.. A lot of people blame the banks these days for their own overspending but at the end of the day no one had to spend the money they now owe... His scenario sounds a bit strange to me - if he owes 20k then there is likely some legal arrangement in place or in train. The Banks dont let that level of debt accumulate without doing anything about it,

You dont actually know how he handles his money and you could be tied to him for half his mortgage or even the full amount if he doesnt turn out to be the man you think he is... Best of luck

How Strange

Putting your name on the deeds to the house would be the worst possible thing you could do at this stage. Firstly you're onky together months, secondly hebhas arrears of 20k amassed already against the property and it's most likely in negative equity.

To put your name on the deeds he would have to remortgage and add your name to that. You lose your first time buyers status if you have it or you pay stamp duty. All this will require a solicitor which will probably cost 1k. Myself and my now husband this this so I know what's involved.

Also if you're put on the mortgage then the bank can pursue you for arrears in the future.

If you want to move in then do so
but agree a monthly rent and amount
for bills. See how the two of you get on living together before you complicate things any further by taking on his debt.

Contrary to what a lot of Irish people think, property is not a good investment and the way things look at the moment you'd be better off assuming prices will fall further rather than increase. That means if you took on half the mortgage you're essentially taking on half a debt.

iguana

Distorted wrote: »

Depending on how bad the debt is on the house, it you are moving in, you should be looking to be added onto the title deeds and mortgage.
tbh I wouldn't consider moving in with a man and contributing financially without being added to the title deeds.

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO. This is horrendous, horrendous advice. It's bubble think and the WORST thing you could do at this stage. The house is not an asset, it is a liability. Getting put on the mortgage and deeds makes the OP responsible for the negative equity, if the relationship didn't work out she would still be liable for the debt. Her credit rating will be affected, if he ends up going bankrupt she could be tainted by it and her ability to do certain jobs will be compromised. I can not stress clearly enough that you should not do this.

Ok, on to what you should possibly do. First you have no responsibility to his debt, you are his girlfriend now, not his life partner. If you are not ready to move in with him then you should not move in with him. If that means he can't keep up his payments, that is not your fault.

If you are ready to move in with him then you should just move in and pay him the rent of a lodger along with your share of the household bills. This minimises the financial risk to you. But it does not eliminate it completely - your credit rating will be adversely affected by the fact that you share an address with a person in arrears and because you live at an address in arrears. In a normal lending market this would be correctable, but in this market it could hamper your future ability to borrow. Be aware that that is a risk of moving in with him, but if it was me and I saw a genuine future with the man I'd probably consider taking that risk.

In time if your relationship is working out and you become a life partnership or married then your debts become his debts. There is no way of avoiding that. Whether you decide to formally take responsibility for the debt or not in your day to day living you will have a "family" budget and his debts will come out of that. This is not to say you should not take on that burden or that the relationship is not worth it, but finance is a serious issue and many relationships flounder because of them. So if you do decide to make a life with him and take on those debts you must do so willingly and with your eyes open because you are sure he is worth it, that way you can avoid resentments.

The important thing to do is to take your time. Go slowly. Do not take responsibility for any of his debts until you are absolutely sure that you are ready to. Take it one step at a time and take time to seriously consider each step. Also get a very, very clear idea of what those debts are. There is €20k in arrears, plus probably much, much more in negative equity. Find out what his repayment term is, what sort of rate he is paying, how the arrears are being dealt with. How long will it realistically take to get out of negative equity and be able to move house if his house doesn't suit your current or future needs? (Err on the side of caution and calculate a further drop in property prices of 50% - I'm very serious.) Stress test the mortgage against higher rates and his/your income with regards to property tax, increased income levies and utility bill increases like water rates.

Good luck, you clearly care a lot for this man and I hope you can make things work with him. But your best shot at that is to go in with your eyes open and take it as slowly as you need to with regard to accepting any responsibility for his debt.

LegacyUser

Why, oh why do you want to move in with him under these circumstances? Youve only known him a few months and its much too soon. Dont hang responsibility and trouble around your neck for a relationship that is only beginning. Whats wrong with the way you are now?

If you feel you need to move in to help him financially then keep it simple and keep it basic by just paying rent. Its money in his pocket, and you still have your freedom.

But I really feel you shouldnt get caught up in sorting out his finances. Its not respectful of his ability to run his own life. He sounds resourceful enough to sort it out, and it could destroy your relationship. Its also not respectful of him to want to drag you into it. Keep your self sufficiency and guard your freedom, they are very valuable things to have.

You dont need to live with him and pay his mortgage to love him.

John Mason

Okay first off, hel will not be able to put on the Deeds of the House - this means a re-mortgage which he wont be able to do when in arrears and negative equity (if applicable).

The bf moved in to my house, as i was struggling (briefly) with my mortgage and his LL had just put his rent up.

We have deal where he pays we a set amount each month to cover his rent and bills. He pays the normal rental rate for the area.

would you consider something like this ? a Landlord / Tenant situation.

if you moving would help him out financially and help shape your future - dont see why not but i get the impression you dont actually want to live with him regardless of whether he is in debt or not.

if this is the case - dont move in with him.

Beruthiel

Goldig wrote: »

I love this man, I'm 29 and he's 34. We're not kids, he's not a scrounger, far from it, he treats me like a queen, not only with material things when he can but with the things that matter.

Isn't this all that matters?

If he's a good man, doing his level best in this economy then your mother needs to keep her nose out and mind her own business.

If you can see yourself having a long term relationship with this man then everything else can be worked out.
I think you're putting the cart before the horse though.
He hasn't asked you to move in. He hasn't asked you for help.
Why not just leave things as they are until he does?

Op – As others in the post have said the most important thing is to ask whether you want to be with this person or not. If you do not then you have no issue. If you do then Money should not be something to prevent that, but something you need to work on together and find a solution. You need to talk to each other about the sacrifices you both might have to make to make it work and both be aware that each of you will not resent the other these sacrifices because each of you are going into this eyes open and aware up front of what it may mean.

There are many many solutions, from selling up to starting again from square 1 together to merely keeping a record of who pays for what and when the means of the other improves to the point they can pay their way again, they make up for their deficit in the previous months or years.

I am not sure if this helps so I will just write it anyway to give you an example of how we did it here, not to suggest you do the same, but to stimulate you to think on the options that are there.

As I have mentioned before I live with two girls. We bought a house and we recently had a baby. One of the girls is doing a Masters in Law and the other was doing Freelance work before becoming pregnant.

Clearly money was a big question for us. Who is it “fair” on to make spend the most? Is it fair on me as the main earner at the moment to be paying for most things? Most likely not.

The way we decided to work it was to each month declare our earnings and look at our shared expenses and simply pay out the same % as each other. This obviously does not include personal expenses such as your own mobile phone etc.

This way it does not matter who is earning more than anyone else. The same % of what I earn from my IT job is spent on our expenses each month as the % the student pays out from what she earns from Grants, Part time work and other sources.

If 2% of my income goes on buying nappies and baby products, then 2% of theirs does too. If one third of what I earn has to go on the mortgage then one third of what they earn does too.

Where those expenses are going into fixed assets like the Mortgage we do keep a record of how much each of us has paid so if we ever sell said asset we will understand who is owed what, but for expendables like Nappies we do not as how can one person have a greater owner ship of a childs future etc?

This is our solution and it works for us. You can find your own. The important point however is that if you have found the person you want to be with, and that person wants to be with you, then you both have to find a way to do this. Do not let it fall at the first hurdle.