Any automatics offer better fuel efficiency/CO2 emissions than manual version?

fricatus

Just doing my usual automotive window-shopping on various sites, and it seems that autos are always one or two tax/VRT bands above the corresponding manual.

Are there any automatics that offer better (or at least comparable) fuel efficiency/CO2 emissions compared to the corresponding manual version?

Anan1

My Subaru Forester does, but it's out of production.

R.O.R

Some versions of the DSG box in some of the VAG cars do. I'm sure the DSG Touran was in a lower VRT category than the manual - the other diesels are usally worse. Isn't the case on the new one though.

The C4 Picasso Auto shift thing has lower emissions than the manual, so I presume fuel economy is slightly better.

Whether that translates to the real world or not is another thing. I read somewhere that the DSG boxes with the petrol engines are tuned to the right gears to get the lowest CO2 in the test, but it wouldn't necessarily perform like that normally.

Bigus

Prius only available in auto

Mr Benevolent

Who cars if it's a tax band above? Are you really going to stay with a manual because it's a few pints of beer/bottles of wine/cups of coffee a year more to tax? Buy a secondhand car and you won't have to worry about VRT so much. Automatics are so much better.

coylemj

Confab wrote: »

Who cars if it's a tax band above? Are you really going to stay with a manual because it's a few pints of beer/bottles of wine/cups of coffee a year more to tax? Buy a secondhand car and you won't have to worry about VRT so much. Automatics are so much better.

That's not the point, I sympathise with the OP because if you're window shopping for a new car, adding auto puts the price through the roof for the simple reason that everything gets hit by a higher rate of VRT, that means the metallic paint, c/c, multifunction steering wheel etc. etc. they all get hit once you add auto. to the specs. because the auto version is almost always in the next higher band, the higher annual road tax is the least of your worries.

Do a 320i on the BMW website, spec. it up as a manual and watch what happens the price when you make it an auto, it adds about 5-6K to the bottom line.

Nissan doctor

Modern dsg/dual clutch trans can be comparable but conventional autos will never match a manual as they are never really disengaged from the engine.

L1011

Bigus wrote: »

Prius only available in auto

The Prius is a car with relatively poor fuel efficiency compared to similar size advanced diesels, auto or not...

veetwin

The new 520D auto is in the same band as the manual. Think most of the VW and Skodas with the DSG are in the same band also

Nissan doctor

MYOB wrote: »

The Prius is a car with relatively poor fuel efficiency compared to similar size advanced diesels, auto or not...

Agreed, the prius is simply for people who want to be seen to be green and because the US has been taken in by them.

Damien360

Off the OP's topic but, I got to test drive 2 versions of the Prius. The older one was horrible to look at inside and out. The steering is the most disconnected I have ever felt in any car. Felt like I was driving a boat. The newer one is awful on the outside but inside is better. Again awful steering. The newer one had better acceleration but it still felt slow. 30000 for a poor car is an awful lot to pay for green smugness.

colm_mcm

TOyota multimode generally have lower emissions than manual. THey tune the shifting time to do well on euro emissions tests. Real life would probably be different

crosstownk

Citroën C4 Picasso EGS (5 & 7 seat) have better CO2 than the manual version although the manual versions have now moved from band C to band B. Manuals are 140g/km and EGS are 135g/km.

New C4 EGS also has less CO2 g/km than the manual.

Anan1

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Modern dsg/dual clutch trans can be comparable but conventional autos will never match a manual as they are never really disengaged from the engine.

Unless the clutch is in on the manual a conventional auto is more disengaged from the engine! Mine's a conventional auto and it's more economical than the manual due to a higher final drive ratio.

ltdslipdiff

New Renault EDC diesel Auto's have better emmissions than their manual counterparts. Available in Megane, Scenic + Fluence variations even in the most basic trim models. Superb changes, completely seamless.

Stinicker

I drove the VW Jetta 2.0Tdi DSG Autobox in Australia this summer and found it be an absolute beauty of a car, I drive automatics here but found this to be the nicest auto boxes ever. Hired the car at Sydney Airport drove up the east coast for over 1,100kms before I had to refuel, the little beauty was giving me 4.5Litres/100kms or bang on 60MPG old speak.

This was with four adults weighing roughly 300KGs and about 150Kgs of luggage (good sized boot and we fitted in four long haul cases). No manual car could give as good a fuel consumption with about 450kgs onboard, it was a sweet drive and our speeds were averaging around 110km/h (Pacific Highway) with cruise control on just sitting back and enjoying the cruise up the east coast. It had plently power and sink the shoe and she would really go, overtaking 25-30metre road trains doing 110-125km/h and it would get upto 140-150km/h in a very short space of time for to overtake these beasts of the road.

VW Ireland offer paddy spec (anything bigger than 1.3litre being a huge engine) does not offer the 2.0l VW Jetta and it is a great shame as it is one nice modest car. Why anyone would go and buy 1.6l Diesel one of these here with the engine of a food mixer (1.6) is beyond me.

Leonard Hofstadter

A lot of the 'autos' that match or beat a manual in fuel economy are actually manual gearboxes with electronically controlled clutches!

DSG, Multimode etc are what's known as automated manuals, they are the same as a conventional manual except the clutch is controlled by electronics, which is why they can change gear themselves.

Having said that, a proper conventional auto makes a whole heap of sense for a lot of cars so even if they are a few mpg worse than a manual, it's worth it for the added convenience:)!

Some traditional torque convertor autos can in fact beat the manual in the official tests. The new 8 speed ZF gearbox that some Audis, BMWs, Jags etc is so efficient it beats a manual in a lot of cases, especially as it has a very tall 7th and 8th gear which brings the revs right down on a motorway.

fricatus

Confab wrote: »

Who cars if it's a tax band above? Are you really going to stay with a manual because it's a few pints of beer/bottles of wine/cups of coffee a year more to tax? Buy a secondhand car and you won't have to worry about VRT so much. Automatics are so much better.

The question is only academic anyway, because I don't really see myself buying a new car any time soon - I asked more out of interest than anything. However:

coylemj wrote: »

That's not the point, I sympathise with the OP because if you're window shopping for a new car, adding auto puts the price through the roof for the simple reason that everything gets hit by a higher rate of VRT, that means the metallic paint, c/c, multifunction steering wheel etc. etc. they all get hit once you add auto. to the specs. because the auto version is almost always in the next higher band, the higher annual road tax is the least of your worries.

Do a 320i on the BMW website, spec. it up as a manual and watch what happens the price when you make it an auto, it adds about 5-6K to the bottom line.

I couldn't have put it better really - it's the fact that the thing jumps up into another VRT band that would put me off an auto. That's relevant when it comes to importing from the UK like I did with my last car (because I wanted a FSH and to avoid "Paddy spec" )

captainspeed wrote: »

Some traditional torque convertor autos can in fact beat the manual in the official tests. The new 8 speed ZF gearbox that some Audis, BMWs, Jags etc is so efficient it beats a manual in a lot of cases, especially as it has a very tall 7th and 8th gear which brings the revs right down on a motorway.

Interesting... what models would have this gearbox, do you know?

Thanks all anyway for the replies - motors is such a great forum!

si_guru

All Citroen EGS are lower emissions and better mpg than the manual...

Have driven EGS and DSG (VW), both are great.. if I am honest DSG is better.

Alun

si_guru wrote: »

All Citroen EGS are lower emissions and better mpg than the manual...

Have driven EGS and DSG (VW), both are great.. if I am honest DSG is better.

I think EGS is a single clutch system (and therefore cheaper to produce) so the changes won't be as fluid as with a dual clutch system.