Can the IMF refuse to help us?

dvpower

Perhaps someone here knows the answer to this.

Can the IMF of the EU Stabillity fund refuse to bail us out or do we have an automatic right to their money?

For example, if next year our bond rates are still at 8% and we choose to go to the IMF, can they tell us to borrow from the markets at 8% and come back to them in another year if the rates persist?

RobbieTheRobber

Surely if they do that we just pull an iceland on them and default and drag the eurozone with us.

jimmycrackcorm

The IMF won't refuse us - it's the conditions of lending that we have to be concerned about....

It's a bit like going to a money lender for a loan when the banks will charge you a huge interest rate or refuse you.

thebman

We don't have an automatic right to anyones money and if we take anyones money, it will come with restrictions to stop us misbehaving.

We can't hold the Eurozone to ransom, we need the German's more than the Germans need us.

dvpower

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Surely if they do that we just pull an iceland on them and default and drag the eurozone with us.

I understand that it might be in the best interest of the EU to help us; I'm just interested in knowing if they have an obligation.

There was some commentry lately that we could play the IMF off against the EU to get the best bailout deal possible. At what point can they tell us to take a hike.

loyatemu

the EU's bailout scheme is backed by the IMF - it is the only show in town.

RobbieTheRobber

dvpower wrote: »

I understand that it might be in the best interest of the EU to help us; I'm just interested in knowing if they have an obligation.

There was some commentry lately that we could play the IMF off against the EU to get the best bailout deal possible. At what point can they tell us to take a hike.

They have an obligation to us in that in benefits them them to save us rather than let us fail, i think, but like you Im not sure on this whole issue.

digme

dvpower wrote: »

Perhaps someone here knows the answer to this.

Can the IMF of the EU Stabillity fund refuse to bail us out or do we have an automatic right to their money?

For example, if next year our bond rates are still at 8% and we choose to go to the IMF, can they tell us to borrow from the markets at 8% and come back to them in another year if the rates persist?

The IMF owns every country in africa bar one, so you can bet your ass they'll help us.

rumour

thebman wrote: »

We don't have an automatic right to anyones money and if we take anyones money, it will come with restrictions to stop us misbehaving.

We can't hold the Eurozone to ransom, we need the German's more than the Germans need us.

Thats an interesting point. Very soon within weeks that position may not be so true. German banks are heavily exposed here. We on the other hand in the best case face punititive sanctions from them (equivalent to the treaty of versailles) which they ought to know is a receipe for disaster.

Indeed while the Germans are great and all that at the minute I'd love to see what would have happened if they didn't recieve the benefits of the marshall plan.

jodaw

I think we need to be getting to the bottom of some real questions here.

Who are the IMF?
What power do they have to interfere with sovereign countries?
Where does their endless supply of monopoly money come from?
What interest do they pay on the money that they borrow? or do the have and endless stash?
What is the objective of their conditions and wishing to interfere in the running of other countries?

Another question to ask:

Since all of the above have shady anwsers, does anyone here believe that the IMF could infact want to have and go at us? Is it possible that they could be orchestrating and run on our little country by interfering in the bond markets?

Anybody?

ashleey

They still would have worked their socks off. That's what they are like mostly. It's just they stopped making weapons. They would have done the hard work anyway. The Marshall Plan helped in retooling weapons factories to autos for example. The rest of us ought to look at ourselves before questioning the resilience of the country that absorbed the east and paid the subsidies to the rest of western europe. I'm not german by the way

jodaw

I believe that in joining the Single currency and the low interest rates that it encompassed, that we were given the rope to hang ourselves. And hung ourselves we did.

At the inception of the Euro we were nearing the natural end of the property bubble that collapsed our banks and state. The Euro simple gave 6 more years fuel to that fire and the rest is history

RIP Ireland as a sovereign country

I for one wish to bow down to our new overlords.

Zynks

loyatemu wrote: »

the EU's bailout scheme is backed by the IMF - it is the only show in town.

It is almost funny how many times I heard the same comment about NAMA.

Plazaman

Professor Morgan Kelly stated earlier on in the week that Ireland has about 6 months cash left. This is the guy who very accurately predicted the housing crash and no one listened and when he predicted the actual cost of the Anglo bail out, the Government call him a scare monger (then 8 months later gave us the same figure he did).

The fact that today the Government have got approval from Europe to extend the bank guarantee scheme until next June ties it all up nicely. We're broke and IMF knows it!!!!

Good job I held on to the Irish Punts. The barter system is on the way back.

jodaw

Plazaman wrote: »

The barter system is on the way back.

here's to hoping. Power to the people

BeeDI

IMF / EU are not really too botherd about helping us in the first place. They are more focused on helping the silly guys who lent all that lolly to us in the first place. The Germans and the French and a few more of the big guys. :cool: So, it's all about getting money back to these guys as quickly as possible. Helping little old Paddy, has sweet eff all got to do with it.

ashleey

The last post is accurate. The IMF lend when no one else will and their whole rationale is to ensure it is paid back. To be fair though, their track record suggests that they understand that payback requires future taxes and thus future growth. The efsf is purely a 'kick the can down the road' idea to allow time for European banks to unwind their sovereign debt positions before they formalise haircuts and defaults post 2013. Any bank that hasn't unwound by then loses. Hence the current peripheral debt selling. If anything the IMF are preferable to ollie Rehn and angela merkel. All will be unpleasant in the short term. The IMF tend to make the current generation poor whereas the euro/ govt plan seems to make future generations pay

ei.sdraob

Who exactly will we be holding ransom? most of european banks had plenty of time to exit this country amongst others, and apparently thats what they did

and a weaker euro is exactly what the germans want, especially now that there is a full-scale currency war.

careful what you wish for...

dan_d

http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/honohan-imf-would-likely-advocate-same-course-481227.html

Apparently we're just doing exactly what the IMF would do anyway - cept they wouldn't wait til a specified date in december, they'd just do it.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/lenihan-denies-eu-has-bought-irish-bonds-481258.html

The jury's out on a lot of what's going on at the moment however...some days I wonder how Brian Lenihan gets out of bed in the morning. If I was in his position, I'd have thrown in the towel, through sheer frustration at re-hashing the same thing over and over and over again, long ago.