Garda: We need your password. Anglo: Good luck with that

Nijmegen

Sigh. George W is promoting his book this week, and talking about how he justified the use of waterboarding to get information from terrorists. I think we should elect him Taoiseach for a week, go after our economic terrorists.

The judge was told that the inquiry has been delayed by the fact Anglo does not have the passwords necessary to access some specific password protected or encrypted documents and the failure of certain former staff members to hand these passwords over.

Because some “very detailed password encryption” was involved, working out the passwords was “a very time consuming process” for the investigators, said Paul O’Higgins SC, for the ODCE. The director had sought passwords for 50 of some 800 password protected documents as those 50 appeared most relevant to the inquiry. Anglo could only supply 20 of the passwords.

Also, the Gardai only have the one unit for computer related forensics, and unless I'm mistaken they'd also work on things like computers brought in from suspected child abusers and so on.

I guess the buggered kids can wait on the bankers.

Sykk

You won't see any of these banker scum getting arrested, the guards have more important things to do like chase after the 16 year olds drinking cans in the fields.

thebigbiffo

ehhh, i'm clutching at straws here but surely in a criminal investigation you either hand over the passwords or go to jail...or does that just happen in civilised countries?

Stercus Accidit

thebigbiffo wrote: »

ehhh, i'm clutching at straws here but surely in a criminal investigation you either hand over the passwords or go to jail...or does that just happen in civilised countries?

You would be wrong, such a thing is prevented by the right not to self incriminate, only recently did the UK bring in an offence of refusing to disclose a password.

Now some of these encryption keys are 50 characters long, there is no breaking them, and in some cases encrypted data is conceled within encrypted data. It is the case in the UK that even if you forget them, or are accused of having further data encrypted, you can be charged with this offence. It becomes a case of having to prove your innocence, but this is a seperate topic.

I'm annoyed that these files, if encrypted properly, will never be cracked.

dave1982

This is f**king laughable at this stage,Government have no control whatsoever,either that or they don't want these files to be opened because their own names are inside there.Our politicians are neck deep in the **** that caused this in the first place.

Get the rope hanging in town square

Duggy747

I know what's wrong, the Administrator account is disabled on their Windows Vista.:pac:

baalthor

Did they try 'password' spelled with a zero ?

thebigbiffo

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

You would be wrong, such a thing is prevented by the right not to self incriminate, only recently did the UK bring in an offence of refusing to disclose a password.

Now some of these encryption keys are 50 characters long, there is no breaking them, and in some cases encrypted data is conceled within encrypted data. It is the case in the UK that even if you forget them, or are accused of having further data encrypted, you can be charged with this offence. It becomes a case of having to prove your innocence, but this is a seperate topic.

I'm annoyed that these files, if encrypted properly, will never be cracked.

i genuinely thought that refusing to hand over a password would fall under obstruction of an investigation or something similar - that's very scary (but also good to know )...

on a different note, i wonder of they tried 1reland?

Nijmegen

It's the divide between real world and digital stuff.

If they had a warrant to enter your office and you had files locked in a drawer, they'd be entitled to crack it open with a crowbar, right?

And indeed, the Gardai are entitled to try and crack these passwords.

In that case, does it not make logical sense to simply oblige someone to give the password or the key to the lock, because they're not incriminating themselves, they're merely speeding up something that will happen anyway and thus no longer obstructing an investigation?

Riddle101

I wish we could higher some hackers to break into the accounts or something. It's sickening how they can get away with this.

I suspect Satan is secretly the chairman of the company

Flimbos

Stop the pensions/ benefits/ pocket money that these "certain former staff members" get until they hand over all the information required.

Let them go to court if they want to object to that. They are obstructing a Garda investigation, they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

Stercus Accidit

Nijmegen wrote: »

In that case, does it not make logical sense to simply oblige someone to give the password or the key to the lock, because they're not incriminating themselves, they're merely speeding up something that will happen anyway and thus no longer obstructing an investigation?

Evidently not, hence the UK bringing in the offence of witholding a password, its only been tried once AFAIK, so it remains to be challenged in that case.

That law however also means that forgetting a password could be a crime, or not being able to prove you didn't encrypt the data or that there is no further encrypted data within the first encrypted drive, phew. Its fairly dodgy stuff legally.

See this article: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/14/ripa_self_incrimination_ruling/

More articles: http://www.theregister.co.uk/Tag/ripa

CreepingDeath

Nijmegen wrote: »

And indeed, the Gardai are entitled to try and crack these passwords.

Modern encryption, if done right, is pretty unbreakable.
Sure the FBI, couldn't break TrueCrypt which is open source.

FBI fails to crack TrueCrypt encryption

Orando Broom

There needs to be a serious trawl of post-it notes in Anglo.

Seifer

Nijmegen wrote: »

In that case, does it not make logical sense to simply oblige someone to give the password or the key to the lock, because they're not incriminating themselves, they're merely speeding up something that will happen anyway and thus no longer obstructing an investigation?

No because if the encryption is strong enough it will not be broken for hundreds of years (assuming people kept trying).

Riddle101 wrote: »

I wish we could higher some hackers to break into the accounts or something. It's sickening how they can get away with this.

Members of the computer forensics bureau are essentially formally trained hackers.

biko

If the Gardai needs help I'm sure they can find plenty of hackers/crackers in Ireland that wouldn't mind getting the bankers in trouble.

minikin

Wonder have they tried "Dell 1909w" or whatever model of monitor was connected to the particular machine???
Alternatively the pliers method is sure to break any encryption... usually works by the second finger nail.

Akrasia

baalthor wrote: »

Did they try 'password' spelled with a zero ?

Give them a little bit of credit
it's probably pa55word

Gummy Panda

People have a right to not self incriminate in ireland? I thought that was a US thing

bonerm

Akrasia wrote: »

Give them a little bit of credit
it's probably pa55word

No I'm afraid it's more complicated than that. You see these people have been working there for years now so it's probably something like "pa55word9" , "pa55word10" or "pa55word11" by now etc

Humans eh!

Flimbos wrote: »

Stop the pensions/ benefits/ pocket money that these "certain former staff members" get until they hand over all the information required.

Let them go to court if they want to object to that. They are obstructing a Garda investigation, they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

Nice idea but it'll never happen, the system, the Gardai and the Judiciary are there purely to prop up the present - rotten to the core - system.

The illusion of democracy and the appearance of justice is the greatest trick played on the population and has worked so far.

IMO Time will reveal the true involvement of Fianna Fail and the criminal banker class, and why they will die rather than reveal the truth. Up to their bloated necks in it they are.

ScumLord

Because some “very detailed password encryption” was involved, working out the passwords was “a very time consuming process”

It's awful time consuming, it makes you wait half an hour before you can have 3 more goes. The guards will be twitching like smack heads with all the coffee they'll be drinking waiting for timer to reset.

JimsAlterEgo

bonerm wrote: »

No I'm afraid it's more complicated than that. You see these people have been working there for years now so it's probably something like "pa55word9" , "pa55word10" or "pa55word11" by now etc

comeon, that would mean they had a decent IT system that forced them to change the passwords

Wossack

I'll be happy to cooperate Gard, lets see..
christmas_dinner_menu_2009.doc, yep password for that
michaels_going_away.ppt, yea easy one that
internal_audit_log.doc, oh, eh, gosh, I just cant remember that one

Nijmegen

God be for the days you could slam their hands into the desk drawer in the interview room till you got a password...

Augmerson

More stalling for time. I'm beginning to wonder just what exactly they are trying to hide. I'd say the present FF cabinet plus Bertie are up to their ****ing necks in filthy deals.

We need these guys



HACK THE PLANET

hinault

thebigbiffo wrote: »

ehhh, i'm clutching at straws here but surely in a criminal investigation you either hand over the passwords or go to jail...or does that just happen in civilised countries?

Theft Act 2001 : Part 7 section 48.

The Act requires those questioned to provide passwords required to allowed gardai to access files held on the computer and to access the computer.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0050/print.html

Capt'n Midnight

Nijmegen wrote: »

I guess the buggered kids can wait on the bankers.

cuts in funding of social services, means in effect this will happen indirectly

people will die because health and other funds are reduced

I hope the bankers & co. realise that yes it is blood money

it would be interesting to see what the overall statistical health of the population changes over these years - peope might get healthier because increased exercise and less spending on luxuries but I'd doubt it

tolosenc

If the files aren't encrypted, why ot just use a linux live cd?

Dravokivich

bonerm wrote: »

No I'm afraid it's more complicated than that. You see these people have been working there for years now so it's probably something like "pa55word9" , "pa55word10" or "pa55word11" by now etc

You're forgetting case senistivity so it' be more like...

Pa55word11... ish....

R P McMurphy

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

cuts in funding of social services, means in effect this will happen indirectly

people will die because health and other funds are reduced

I hope the bankers & co. realise that yes it is blood money

it would be interesting to see what the overall statistical health of the population changes over these years - peope might get healthier because increased exercise and less spending on luxuries but I'd doubt it

There are certainly a lot more people out and about and the increase in numbers participating in triathlons, trail running or simply just walking/swimming etc is staggering although maybe only a short term thing

Stercus Accidit

hinault wrote: »

Theft Act 2001 : Part 7 section 48.

The Act requires those questioned to provide passwords required to allowed gardai to access files held on the computer and to access the computer.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0050/print.html

Thats crazy, does the right to silence impeed on that in any way?

krudler

Try abc123

hinault

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Thats crazy, does the right to silence impeed on that in any way?

I don't know.
I'm not a solicitor.

bonerm

krudler wrote: »

Try abc123

This is no time to be listening to the Jackson 5.

smk89

Why not make a public contest with a reward if the code is cracked?

seamus

It's nothing new. Ask anyone who's worked somewhere that a major scandal has been uncovered and they'll describe the scene of the highest managers in the place storming in at 6am and destroying every single document that they can get their hands on as well as ordering to staff to search for everything on X, Y and Z and to shred it straight off.

This is just the digital equivalent of it - very difficult to reliably delete anything, especially when you have mountains of backups, so just encrypt the **** out of it.

Corsendonk

Seifer wrote: »

Members of the computer forensics bureau are essentially formally trained hackers.

Yes, but are they the best in the business? The UK banks use security hackers to test there password systems all the time.

Capt'n Midnight

Bank doesn't have passwords for important documents.

Reckless trading ?
How can the market have any trust in an institution that doesn't know what it's doing. Either it's incompetance (fire them) it's deliberate (jail them for that offence now, lawyers can visit them in prison about other offences)



I'd sick with obstructionism 'mature recollection' and this other stalling techniques - remember the solicitors are making thousands per day with every day's stalling , I'm not saying it's all done to line pockets, but it has happened in the past and there wasn't any punishment then :mad:


Also these guys should realise that their FF friends may not win the next election and those who do might (unlikely I admit) use them as scapegoats, I'd settle for a little more economic hardship if it meant that those who think themselves above the law got a massive wake up call that taking risks with other peoples futures can have a real down side for them too.

charlemont

the cops here dont seem to have any interest or legal authority to really go after white collar crime, they think its not their job and in fairness every obstacle is put in their way by FF anyway sure look at how they ignored organised rampant sexual abuse for decades..

Mister men

These banker scum are laughing at all of us. When the hell are the people of this country going to see one of these thugs jailed?

CFC1969

Seifer wrote: »

Members of the computer forensics bureau are essentially formally trained hackers.

What do you mean .... what qualifications, real world experince do they have ??

Not tryin to be smart , just curious

Blazer

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Modern encryption, if done right, is pretty unbreakable.
Sure the FBI, couldn't break TrueCrypt which is open source.

FBI fails to crack TrueCrypt encryption

Even if it was broken do you honestly think the CIA/FBI would admit to this?
They're notorious for saying "blah blah we can't crack so and so and years later it comes out they were able to do so all along...I mean why let the enemy know you can monitor their communications?