Animal Welfare and Management

wolfpawnat

Hello!
I have hijacked my friends boards account to put up this question to ye, hope someone might be able to help. Basically I am researching a project based on animal welfare, particularly in relation to beef farming.

Does anyone know if, lets say there was a farmer who was almost ignoring his farm - and he had poor boundaries and fencing around the farm, old rusted ring feeders around the fields, no water supply over much of the farm and poor provision of grass, would he be in breach of the law? Is there government legislation to protect against this sort of thing?

Also what are the guidelines for dealing with fallen animals? I know that they must be disposed of correctly, but if this farmer disposed of them himself about the farm what are the penalties he might face? Also he has animals wandering around in very poor condition and one with an treated leg fracture.

Muckit

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Hello!
I have hijacked my friends boards account to put up this question to ye, hope someone might be able to help. Basically I am researching a project based on animal welfare, particularly in relation to beef farming.

Does anyone know if, lets say there was a farmer who was almost ignoring his farm - and he had poor boundaries and fencing around the farm, old rusted ring feeders around the fields, no water supply over much of the farm and poor provision of grass, would he be in breach of the law? Is there government legislation to protect against this sort of thing?

Also what are the guidelines for dealing with fallen animals? I know that they must be disposed of correctly, but if this farmer disposed of them himself about the farm what are the penalties he might face? Also he has animals wandering around in very poor condition and one with an treated leg fracture.

Sounds like you've been looking over the ditch somewhere:rolleyes: Either that or you're a gift for painting hypotethical scenarios:D

wolfpawnat

Muckit wrote: »

Sounds like you've been looking over the ditch somewhere:rolleyes: Either that or you're a gift for painting hypotethical scenarios:D

Worse, lecturer with nothing better to do than make this sort of thing up!

snowman707

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Hello!
I have hijacked my friends boards account to put up this question to ye, hope someone might be able to help. Basically I am researching a project based on animal welfare, particularly in relation to beef farming.

Does anyone know if, lets say there was a farmer who was almost ignoring his farm - and he had poor boundaries and fencing around the farm, old rusted ring feeders around the fields, no water supply over much of the farm and poor provision of grass, would he be in breach of the law? Is there government legislation to protect against this sort of thing?

Also what are the guidelines for dealing with fallen animals? I know that they must be disposed of correctly, but if this farmer disposed of them himself about the farm what are the penalties he might face? Also he has animals wandering around in very poor condition and one with an treated leg fracture.

there are regulations in force to protect animal welfare,

your post suggests to me that you know of a case where animals are being neglected

i would suggest you report the matter to your local Garda station or the local
office of the Department of Agriculture and let them decide

wolfpawnat

snowman707 wrote: »

there are regulations in force to protect animal welfare,

your post suggests to me that you know of a case where animals are being neglected

i would suggest you report the matter to your local Garda station or the local
office of the Department of Agriculture and let them decide

That is not the case. I am studying Animal welfare as part of my degree and the legislation with regards to it. I am merely trying to understand what the general practice with regards to these hypothetical situations, created by our lecturer.

sh1tstirrer

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Worse, lecturer with nothing better to do than make this sort of thing up!

What is he making up? You are doing some research on animal welfare then you describe a farm in great detail and you want to know what penalties the farmer will face:rolleyes:

wolfpawnat

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

What is he making up? You are doing some research on animal welfare then you describe a farm in great detail and you want to know what penalties the farmer will face:rolleyes:

She has given each set of students scenarios, my group got this. I just wanted to know what the story is with protocol and the repercussions if farmers do not follow said protocols. There is no malice or agenda behind this. I was hoping that people in this area of work would be able to help me more than trying to decoding acts and regulations for the evening:(

wolfpawnat

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

What is he making up? You are doing some research on animal welfare then you describe a farm in great detail and you want to know what penalties the farmer will face:rolleyes:

Her area is animal welfare and management and she is English, perhaps this occurred in her time as a vet there. I don't know. I am only trying to do the project given to me.

Often the best advice is given by those whose livelihood it is and not paper pushers! Hence asking boards for help

Jed_Bartlet

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Hello!
I have hijacked my friends boards account to put up this question to ye, hope someone might be able to help. Basically I am researching a project based on animal welfare, particularly in relation to beef farming.

Does anyone know if, lets say there was a farmer who was almost ignoring his farm - and he had poor boundaries and fencing around the farm, old rusted ring feeders around the fields, no water supply over much of the farm and poor provision of grass, would he be in breach of the law? Is there government legislation to protect against this sort of thing?

Also what are the guidelines for dealing with fallen animals? I know that they must be disposed of correctly, but if this farmer disposed of them himself about the farm what are the penalties he might face? Also he has animals wandering around in very poor condition and one with an treated leg fracture.

I'll try, to the best of my ability, to answer some of these for you. You're first scenario is basically one of a farmer with welfare issues. There are regulations laid down by the Dept. of Ag. which require farmers to have adequate fencing and feeders along with water troughs and testing facilities. Farms with welfare issues aren't particularly common but they are taken very seriously by the Dept. Welfare issues could be identified if a farm is in receipt of the Single Payment Scheme grant, Disadvantaged Area Aid grant, REPS grants, Farm Waste Management grants, and a good few others that require technical officers from the Dept. to conduct on-farm visits. If, during the course of one of those visits, the official identifies such welfare problems, then the farmer in question risks jeopordising the grants they have applied for due to 'Non Compliance.' Even if the farmer cleans up their act, they still risk receiving a penalty on the grants they have applied for. The Dept. and the Gardai would also investigate if welfare issues are brought to their attention

In serious cases, the technical officer may decide to refer the case to the Dept. Veterinary staff who could decide that the welfare situation is so dire as to recommend prosecution to the Gardai - if that's the case then not only does the farmer risk the grants they have applied for, they also risk having the courts (if it gets that far) imposing a hefty fine on them and requiring them to destock, effectively terminating their right to keep animals. For farmers whose sole livelihood is keeping animals, this would be disasterous, which is why 99.999% of farmers who keep animals never get into this situation - why jeopardise the welfare of the animals that account for your livelihood.

There are also laws which prohibit the on-farm burial of animals which can only be waived by the Dept. who can issue, on an individual basis, licences to bury individual animals on farm, but these are incredibly rare and are usually only issued if all reasonable attempts had either been exhausted or would be deemed to be fruitless (e.g an animal that died in a bog - not much chance of the knackery lorry being able to get out there). There are some farmers (again, very very few) who do bury their animals on farm but the Dept. does investigate these cases and the farmer runs the risk again of jeopordising their grants and having their herd number taken off of them by the Dept. so the vast majority of farmers employ licenced knackeries to remove all fallen animals.

Hope this helped.

Muckit

You should check out some marts (not all) and see the way cattle are mistreated by mart staff:eek:

Over use of the stick and impatient handlers with total lack of understanding into animal behaviour.

Seen one lad inour local mart belting a cow, wanted to wear the stick on him:mad:

Muckit

Jed_Bartlet wrote: »

There(e.g an animal that died in a bog - not much chance of the knackery lorry being able to get out there)

I'm not sure that in this situation you would be allowed bury an animal (especially an animal the size of a cow) in a bog of all places. Sure it would never really decompose, not to mention the greater possibility of it polluting bog drains that inevitably flow into a water system

Jed_Bartlet

Muckit wrote: »

I'm not sure that in this situation you would be allowed bury an animal (especially an animal the size of a cow) in a bog of all places. Sure it would never really decompose, not to mention the greater possibility of it polluting bog drains that inevitably flow into a water system

I know it's a strange scenario but I know of cases where it has happened. Animals sometimes do wander onto bogs and if they get trapped and die, it's a tough job trying to get in there to recover the carcass. In those cases, the Dept. vets can issue an On-Farm Burial Licence (I think it's called a FAL4 but I'm open to correction) to act as a waiver which indemnifies the farmer against any action for not removing the animal by proper means.

sh1tstirrer

Jed_Bartlet wrote: »

I know it's a strange scenario but I know of cases where it has happened. Animals sometimes do wander onto bogs and if they get trapped and die, it's a tough job trying to get in there to recover the carcass. In those cases, the Dept. vets can issue an On-Farm Burial Licence (I think it's called a FAL4 but I'm open to correction) to act as a waiver which indemnifies the farmer against any action for not removing the animal by proper means.

If they can't get in to remove the carcass how do they get in to bury it?

Jed_Bartlet

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

If they can't get in to remove the carcass how do they get in to bury it?

In cases like that, the On-Farm Burial licence is something of a misnomer. The carcass isn't buried in the traditional manner (6 feet under and all that) but is allowed to decompose naturally. I know, not a pleasant situation, but it does happen. Other cases I know of happened out in the Burren area in Clare - the rocky terrain in some areas makes it next to impossible for the safe retrieval of carcasses so the Dept. issued the On-Farm Burial licence.

Again, the circumstance surrounding the issue of one of these licences are rare and one licence only covers one animal and they almost always have to be in remote areas where chances of contamination to a water supply or any other form of contamination are extremely unlikely.

John_F

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

If they can't get in to remove the carcass how do they get in to bury it?

EDIT: take it back due to the above post

convert

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Hello!
I have hijacked my friends boards account to put up this question to ye,

Your friend, who, according to their profile, is interested in animal welfare may be able to help you with this one - it would save you hi-jacking their account!

Does anyone know if, lets say there was a farmer who was almost ignoring his farm - and he had poor boundaries and fencing around the farm, old rusted ring feeders around the fields, no water supply over much of the farm and poor provision of grass, would he be in breach of the law? Is there government legislation to protect against this sort of thing?

Also what are the guidelines for dealing with fallen animals? I know that they must be disposed of correctly, but if this farmer disposed of them himself about the farm what are the penalties he might face? Also he has animals wandering around in very poor condition and one with an treated leg fracture.

You should be able to find a lot of the legislation you're looking for on the 'net. And if you're looking at it from a legal perspective you'd probably be better to contact a solicitor or contact the FLAC in your college to see if they could help .

The_Conductor

OP- if you do want to post on thread, and are not Wolfpawnat, PM me once you have your own user account and I will happily unlock this thread for you. Until then, closed.