Huge opportunity for Unsigned Irish Bands.

Whiplash

The only battle of the bands in Ireland with a Glastonbury gig prize returns in the new year. Now accepting entries. Follow in the footsteps of last years winner shouting at planes and you may be wowing thousands of music fans at Glastonbury 2011!!

http://www.myspace.com/shercockbandbattle

Malice

Please don't post in ALL CAPS as it makes your post very hard to read. Also, it would be a good idea to proofread your text before posting. "Oppertunity" and "musi" are glaring typos.

Whiplash

thank you spell check

Hey, can you supply a bit more info?

How many heats will the winning band play altogether?

How is it judged? Audience, judges or both?

Whiplash

hi papa smut. last year there were 6 heats with 5 bands competing on each. i'm assuming it will be the same this year. I'm only the dogsbody who tries to get the word out online. in regards to the voting, last year it was 50/50 audience/judge, however this year that is changed to a majority judge vote of 70/30. each person will get one voting card with entry to the heats. for the full info you are rest calling the number on the poster or ask olivia on the facebook page. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Battle-of-the-Bands-Shercock/154397761264283

I wish i could be of more help. I know last year they had alot of bands pull out because they thought the Glastonbury prize was a fake. I can tell you that it is legitimate. I was front row centre when shouting at planes played the queenshead stage to a very interested audience. its an amazing prize for any band to win. hell if i could sing , play music or somehow had a band i would enter! :P

elhombre

there were reports from last years competition that fans were able to 'buy' votes - presumably meaning they were able to buy extra voting cards?

True? False?

Prefab Sprouter

elhombre wrote: »

there were reports from last years competition that fans were able to 'buy' votes - presumably meaning they were able to buy extra voting cards?

True? False?

Buying voting cards?? That doesnt sound fair does it??
More info please!

elhombre

Prefab Sprouter wrote: »

Buying voting cards?? That doesnt sound fair does it??
More info please!

I'm not saying this is at all true, but check out this previous post from a band who were playing it - said that they had to buy votes for €4!!!

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055821065&highlight=glastonbury

Also, the band who won it last year are from Cavan (maybe even from Shercock itself). which is the problem with hosting a competition like this in a small town. Get the whole town behind the local band and get them all down the local pub and vote. (don't want to take away from Shouting at Planes as they're a good band - but it makes you wonder)

And the OP / organiser was front row and centre for their Glasto set?

Be interesting to see if he's friends with the band as well?

Whiplash

my opinions are my own and not of the those running the contest. i just try to get word out online for them. i have no say in anything outside of posting these ads.

the voting system last yr was flawed i have to say 5 euros a vote and buy as many as you wanted. thats done away with this year thank christ! its one vote per person with admission now. the winning band was from cavan area yes, but in no way was it "fixed". the organiser was at glastonbury because she is related to the owners of the festival and they is there every year because it is her familys festival. last years winning band has no personal relationship with the organisers. the reason the prize is a glastonbury gig is because of the relationship between the organisers and the festival owners. these sort of prizes cant be bought.

so to sum up for all of you. the voting system last year was ****e. be fair it was the first time these people ran something like this. this year its more judges vote and no buying of votes.

The winning band is not friends with the promoters and the result wasnt fixed. the fact it was a cavan badn is coincidental.

I know that after the last contest certain bands who made it to the final and didnt win went on a slander spree of the contest. runmors of fixes is just bulls spouted by sore losers.

this is a great chance for any up and commng band. if you don't want to take it because of bull**** stories spread by people who cant stand being a runner up, well thats up to you.

again i have nothing to do with the running of the contest. i'm just putting the word out. for better up to the minute info ring niall on the number on the poster or go to the facebook page and ask olivia.

drumdrum

Whiplash wrote: »

my opinions are my own and not of the those running the contest. i just try to get word out online for them. i have no say in anything outside of posting these ads.

the voting system last yr was flawed i have to say 5 euros a vote and buy as many as you wanted. thats done away with this year thank christ! its one vote per person with admission now. the winning band was from cavan area yes, but in no way was it "fixed". the organiser was at glastonbury because she is related to the owners of the festival and they is there every year because it is her familys festival. last years winning band has no personal relationship with the organisers. the reason the prize is a glastonbury gig is because of the relationship between the organisers and the festival owners. these sort of prizes cant be bought.

so to sum up for all of you. the voting system last year was ****e. be fair it was the first time these people ran something like this. this year its more judges vote and no buying of votes.

The winning band is not friends with the promoters and the result wasnt fixed. the fact it was a cavan badn is coincidental.

I know that after the last contest certain bands who made it to the final and didnt win went on a slander spree of the contest. runmors of fixes is just bulls spouted by sore losers.

this is a great chance for any up and commng band. if you don't want to take it because of bull**** stories spread by people who cant stand being a runner up, well thats up to you.

again i have nothing to do with the running of the contest. i'm just putting the word out. for better up to the minute info ring niall on the number on the poster or go to the facebook page and ask olivia.

For someone just "putting the word out", you seem to be getting quite defensive.

Also, one GLARING observation that this is more scam than fair, is that it says "please send a CD and a €10 admission fee...".
So basically, you take €10 from every entry regardless of entrance to the competition?
Do you know how EASY it would be to set up a scam like this to take advantage of peoples dreams?

How would this sound?
"Want to be the next Muse? Or bigger than Kings of Leon? Then enter the Gull-a-Battle of the bands where the winner could play Glastonbury, Roskilde, Reading and Oxegen!! (<- Heres the bait you see, with that every important word COULD thrown in for good measure)

All you have to do is send us a demo CD with an entrance fee of €10
Easy! Top 5 bands from each category get chosen for each heat with an audience / judge collaboration to decide the winner!!
You know you're good enough, so why not give it a shot?"

So of course, then I get tons of replies from young naive bands that think that its worth a shot for €10. So when I turn around and tell them "unfortunately you havent been successful in securing a position" they dont feel too cheated out of only €10.
While I tell 100+ bands this that entered, Im laughing all the way to the bank with well over €1000!!!

There is absolutely NO reason for asking for an entrance fee as it only costs time to listen to music, and if you have to pay someone to do it then something here doesnt work.
Why the hell do you want €10 admission fee??

And before you say "venue hire and costs" then you sir are full of it, as the money you charge at the door for these things should be enough to cover the expenses. Especially as the bands in these things are required to bring people to get through, "judging panel" or no. Either this is a scam, or it isnt ran very well from a business point of view (basically with a poor cost management system). Pass the costs onto the mass audience by charging each person an extra €1 or €2 at the door if needs be.

Just dont bottom feed from the innocent bands by playing to the chance that you can make them superstars, or that this could be their "big break".

Didnt mean to sound hostile here, but I hate seeing bands being taken advantage of. Smells to me like a Emergenza thing all over again!! (I think Scam-ergenza would be a more fitting name!)

Whiplash

i have no idea why there is a 10 euro fee. i dont design the posters. i just post the poster on here because i'm used to posting on boards. this is all a favor for the organizers. i have financial gain from any of this. if you want to know why the is a fee ring the number on the poster or even text it. he can tell you exactly why theres a fee or anything else you would like to know.

Whiplash

i have no idea why there is a 10 euro fee. i dont design the posters. i just post the poster on here because i'm used to posting on boards. this is all a favor for the organizers. i have no financial gain from any of this. if you want to know why there is a fee ring the number on the poster or even text it. he can tell you exactly why theres a fee or anything else you would like to know.

Waking-Dreams

drumdrum wrote: »

For someone just "putting the word out", you seem to be getting quite defensive.

Also, one GLARING observation that this is more scam than fair, is that it says "please send a CD and a €10 admission fee...".
So basically, you take €10 from every entry regardless of entrance to the competition?
Do you know how EASY it would be to set up a scam like this to take advantage of peoples dreams?

How would this sound?
"Want to be the next Muse? Or bigger than Kings of Leon? Then enter the Gull-a-Battle of the bands where the winner could play Glastonbury, Roskilde, Reading and Oxegen!! (<- Heres the bait you see, with that every important word COULD thrown in for good measure)

All you have to do is send us a demo CD with an entrance fee of €10
Easy! Top 5 bands from each category get chosen for each heat with an audience / judge collaboration to decide the winner!!
You know you're good enough, so why not give it a shot?"

So of course, then I get tons of replies from young naive bands that think that its worth a shot for €10. So when I turn around and tell them "unfortunately you havent been successful in securing a position" they dont feel too cheated out of only €10.
While I tell 100+ bands this that entered, Im laughing all the way to the bank with well over €1000!!!

There is absolutely NO reason for asking for an entrance fee as it only costs time to listen to music, and if you have to pay someone to do it then something here doesnt work.
Why the hell do you want €10 admission fee??

And before you say "venue hire and costs" then you sir are full of it, as the money you charge at the door for these things should be enough to cover the expenses. Especially as the bands in these things are required to bring people to get through, "judging panel" or no. Either this is a scam, or it isnt ran very well from a business point of view (basically with a poor cost management system). Pass the costs onto the mass audience by charging each person an extra €1 or €2 at the door if needs be.

Just dont bottom feed from the innocent bands by playing to the chance that you can make them superstars, or that this could be their "big break".

Didnt mean to sound hostile here, but I hate seeing bands being taken advantage of. Smells to me like a Emergenza thing all over again!! (I think Scam-ergenza would be a more fitting name!)

Come back Zendali, all is forgiven!

---

I think bands should take these kind of competitions for what they are; an opportunity to play in front of people - no more no less.

No, it will not be your ticket to fame.

Yes, other people will be making money in the process.

And the prizes are often advertised to sound brilliant but in practical terms, can fall very short. (Just how much can one get done in a recording studio in 1 day, or achieve playing on a sub-par stage at a festival where everyone will be watching the bigger bands).

I'm generalising I know, but caveat emptor.

drumdrum

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

Come back Zendali, all is forgiven!

---

I think bands should take these kind of competitions for what they are; an opportunity to play in front of people - no more no less.

No, it will not be your ticket to fame.

Yes, other people will be making money in the process.

And the prizes are often advertised to sound brilliant but in practical terms, can fall very short. (Just how much can one get done in a recording studio in 1 day, or achieve playing on a sub-par stage at a festival where everyone will be watching the bigger bands).

I'm generalising I know, but caveat emptor.

Ha!! Zendali.....now THAT was a thread!

OliviaB

My Goodness Waking-Dreams!

That's quite the conspiracy theory!!!!

I hope I can reassure you with the facts.
My name's Olivia and I've been asked to help promote this year's battle of the bands, Shercock. I'm writing this from my kitchen table in the middle of the countryside in Co. Cavan. I'm not part of some sinister big business that exploits musicians, just an ordinary person like yourself who loves music and is delighted to be involved in something so exciting. What on earth has all this got to do with Glastonbury you might ask? Allow me to explain....
The competition began last year, and was run by Niall and Sandra, the Sail Inn, Shercock, Co. Cavan's landlords. Sandra is the daughter of Michael Eavis, founder of Glastonbury, hence the festival connection & fantastic prize. She runs the pub in the town of Shercock with her partner Niall, who's from the area.
The reason the competition came into being was to try to drum up some interest in the Pub, with the hope of establishing it as a venue for new bands. Niall and Sandra, with help from their good friend John ran the contest not knowing how it would be received. At first there was a mixed response; some people were concerned that because of the prize it must be a scam. Others felt that they might indeed get to play Glastonbury; but in the corner of a remote field on a tiny stage at 4am! Neither of these were the case and those who took the leap of faith played heats every Sunday night for 6 weeks, culminating in a very close grand final, which was won by the band Shouting at Planes. The band went on to play the queen's head stage Glastonbury on Sat. 26th June to an enthusiastic and appreciative audience. Those with any doubts about this can follow the link to the official Glastonbury website where you can see their name clearly printed on the programme.
http://www.glastonburyfestivals.co.uk/line-up-poster/
They also went on to play a smaller, unscheduled gig in a wine bar run by a relative of the Eavis family, and had a ball. They received VIP hospitality passes to the festival, which entitled them access restricted areas, and to camp in the VIP camping area. They met various well known musicians in the hospitality bar, and made valuable contacts in the industry.
You can contact the band on their myspace http://www.myspace.com/shoutingatplanes or facebook pages http://www.facebook.com/shoutingatplanes for verification and you can also have a look their Glastonbury photo's.
Shouting at Planes are indeed from Cavan, but not from Shercock. This is no surprise as due to it being the first year of the contest and the fact that it wasn't heavily promoted, details of the contest mainly spread through word of mouth, and a large proportion of the entries came from the local area. Indeed, there were actually musicians who actually played the contest twice due to being members of two different bands!
The voting structure last year was a source of derision, and was ill advised. The decision to allow people pay to vote was terrible. It was, strange as it may sound, designed to avoid a cover charge allowing more people to come to the contests. It left people to make up their own minds about whether to vote or not. It was of course open to exploitation and some people tried to take advantage of it. Fortunately the Judges had enough of a proportion of the votes to make sure the contest wouldn't be a wipeout. The inclusion of a wildcard final and a Judges only vote for the final of the competition meant that fair play was observed. This year thankfully, it's a straightforward cover charge and one man, one vote.
You have mentioned concerns about the €10 administration fee. I assure you that nobody is going to get rich from it! I would hope that we will receive 100 entries but with the effort & money involved in organising and recording a demo, and within the designated time frame it is highly unlikely. The money goes into promotion and admin. costs; posters have to be designed, printed, posted & delivered to music shops, colleges, pubs, venues, studios and various locations all over Ireland. Phone calls have to be made, ads placed, and meetings with contacts held. Then all the applicants have to be contacted to let them know whether they've qualified. It all adds up to a substantial amount of money. This happens first when we call for entries, and we do it all over again to promote the competition itself when it starts. If in the unlikely event money is left over I don't think there is anything wrong with the organisers keeping it. This is not a charity, or a scheme for new bands, it is a competition run to promote and bring business to the Pub of the organisers, during a recession that's putting many like them out of business daily. The fact that it is of such huge benfit to the bands too is great. I reckon everyone's a winner.
I can totally understand how you would have concerns about any competition that appeals to aspiring young musicians trying to get their first big break. I have friends and relatives involved in the business who unfortunately were exploited along the way, and am only too familiar with some of the more sinister types involved in the industry. I can wholeheartedly say that it would not be in the interest of the Eavis Family, who have, over 40 years, built Glastonbury on it's reputation for integrity, to be involved in anything underhanded.
Sandra & Niall are two hardworking conscientious people who will more than happily pull you a pint, or make you a cup of tea and chat with you in more detail about the competition or indeed anything else, any day in the Sail Inn. Hey, they might even make you dinner!
I hope i've put your mind at rest, if there's anything else you'd like to know, feel free to ask.
Olivia
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Battle-of-the-Bands-Shercock/154397761264283
http://www.myspace.com/shercockbandbattle
battleofthebandsshercock@gmail.com

Waking-Dreams

OliviaB wrote: »

My Goodness Waking-Dreams!

That's quite the conspiracy theory!!!!

It's an observation concerning the nature of band competitions in general. A conspiracy theory is something which has no solid evidence to support its premise.

There have been plenty of BOTB competitions which were set-up but did not deliver very much for the bands involved.

But bear in mind, I did reserve judgement on this particular event because nobody in their right mind would advertise a Glastonbury gig slot unless they had the means to deliver.

In the absence of information, people will naturally ask questions and begin to speculate. There's been a few cowboys 'round these parts before, y'see.

Your post should put people's concerns to rest.

OliviaB

How silly of me not to mention that Tom Dunne is doing a feature about the competition on the show tomorrow morning! (11th Nov. 2010) Please tune in!!!
I also forgot to mention that the reason the competition is not mentioned on the Glastonbury website (some people got it confused with the english competition) is that it's not run by the festival promoters but by Sandra & Niall personally.

OliviaB

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

It's an observation concerning the nature of band competitions in general. A conspiracy theory is something which has no solid evidence to support its premise.

There have been plenty of BOTB competitions which were set-up but did not deliver very much for the bands involved.

But bear in mind, I did reserve judgement on this particular event because nobody in their right mind would advertise a Glastonbury gig slot unless they had the means to deliver.

In the absence of information, people will naturally ask questions and begin to speculate. There's been a few cowboys 'round these parts before, y'see.

Your post should put people's concerns to rest.

Thanks, and I wasn't serious about the conspiracy theory. There's no harm in being vigilant. I myself have been known to use snopes.com on occasion! There's so much crap out there, and if something sounds too good to be true, it usually is. It's good to question things, and I don't think the Irish do it half enough!

jjrg2020

Hi Olivia, just a quick question which hsn't been discussed in this thread yet, is the competition open to bands with members younger than 18?
thanks
John:)

elhombre

Whiplash wrote: »

my opinions are my own and not of the those running the contest. i just try to get word out online for them. i have no say in anything outside of posting these ads.

the voting system last yr was flawed i have to say 5 euros a vote and buy as many as you wanted. thats done away with this year thank christ! its one vote per person with admission now. the winning band was from cavan area yes, but in no way was it "fixed". the organiser was at glastonbury because she is related to the owners of the festival and they is there every year because it is her familys festival. last years winning band has no personal relationship with the organisers. the reason the prize is a glastonbury gig is because of the relationship between the organisers and the festival owners. these sort of prizes cant be bought.

so to sum up for all of you. the voting system last year was ****e. be fair it was the first time these people ran something like this. this year its more judges vote and no buying of votes.

The winning band is not friends with the promoters and the result wasnt fixed. the fact it was a cavan badn is coincidental.

I know that after the last contest certain bands who made it to the final and didnt win went on a slander spree of the contest. runmors of fixes is just bulls spouted by sore losers.

this is a great chance for any up and commng band. if you don't want to take it because of bull**** stories spread by people who cant stand being a runner up, well thats up to you.

again i have nothing to do with the running of the contest. i'm just putting the word out. for better up to the minute info ring niall on the number on the poster or go to the facebook page and ask olivia.

just a couple of points in response Whiplash:

Firstly - i never insinuated that the competition was fixed, i simply said that if you host a competition like this in a small town like Shercock, if a local band is playing - they have an unfair advantage due to the fact that it is easier for them to round up a crowd to come down and vote. This is a nationwide competition - but a band from Cork for example would have a much tougher time getting a large crowd to travel 4-5 hours to cast a vote.

Secondly - you mentioned that the organisers were at the festival because of the family connection. Fair enough. But my point was addressing the fact that in your earlier post, you said that you were also there front and centre. Does this mean that you're also an organiser. You say not so - although i think you may have more to do with the competion than you let on.

Lastly, in another post on this thread, Olivia B - one of your colleagues i presume - posted saying that one of the reasons the Sail Inn were doing the competition was to raise the profile of the pub as a venue for new bands. Can you let us know, apart from this annual competition - what else has the Sail Inn done to help new bands. I'm a full time musician and i have to say i haven;t heard of any promotion of the Sail Inn as a music venue - apart from the bad press it received from this competition the last time round.

livefoh

elhombre wrote: »

just a couple of points in response Whiplash:

Firstly - i never insinuated that the competition was fixed, i simply said that if you host a competition like this in a small town like Shercock, if a local band is playing - they have an unfair advantage due to the fact that it is easier for them to round up a crowd to come down and vote. This is a nationwide competition - but a band from Cork for example would have a much tougher time getting a large crowd to travel 4-5 hours to cast a vote.

Secondly - you mentioned that the organisers were at the festival because of the family connection. Fair enough. But my point was addressing the fact that in your earlier post, you said that you were also there front and centre. Does this mean that you're also an organiser. You say not so - although i think you may have more to do with the competion than you let on.

Lastly, in another post on this thread, Olivia B - one of your colleagues i presume - posted saying that one of the reasons the Sail Inn were doing the competition was to raise the profile of the pub as a venue for new bands. Can you let us know, apart from this annual competition - what else has the Sail Inn done to help new bands. I'm a full time musician and i have to say i haven;t heard of any promotion of the Sail Inn as a music venue - apart from the bad press it received from this competition the last time round.

Jeez man give it a rest.

elhombre

livefoh wrote: »

Jeez man give it a rest.

eh - is this not a forum for discussion????

Malice

elhombre wrote: »

eh - is this not a forum for discussion????

Well said. livefoh if you've nothing useful to contribute, please don't bother posting.

UCC LMS

I hope this runs well this year, I can completely understand the people who had their questions as there have been so many Battle Of the Bands that were fixed and also from hearing what went on last year.
However they did deliver the Glastonbury promise and it could have been bad advice to people who didn't have experience running something like this. They will have to get it right this year tho'
If their trying to promote music in the venue and area and manage to get some interest then fair play to them.

Just some advice for Olivia and the organisers, the audience should not get a vote. Bands from outside of Cavan will have a harder time then and in Battle of the Bands "Crowd Reaction" is normally a point to consider on the scoring card of the judges anyway. And as someone else mentioned a band from Cork would be screwed in such a scenario. There is no reason to give the audience a vote, it doesn't appear "fairer" at all although I know that this is probably the reason why the audience vote was put in in the first place.
As long as you have a few judges who don't have connections to any bands then it's fair. And if you can make it clearly fair then this event could get the best unsigned bands from the country competing. I know myself being from Cork that some bands wouldn't bother entering upon hearing that there is an audience vote in Cavan.

I don't have a band myself at the moment but I hope that this runs well as it would be exciting to see this run into the future....Best of luck with the event but seriously consider cutting that audience vote in the interest of making it most fair.

Fandango

OliviaB wrote: »

My Goodness Waking-Dreams!

That's quite the conspiracy theory!!!!

I hope I can reassure you with the facts.
My name's Olivia and I've been asked to help promote this year's battle of the bands, Shercock. I'm writing this from my kitchen table in the middle of the countryside in Co. Cavan. I'm not part of some sinister big business that exploits musicians, just an ordinary person like yourself who loves music and is delighted to be involved in something so exciting. What on earth has all this got to do with Glastonbury you might ask? Allow me to explain....
The competition began last year, and was run by Niall and Sandra, the Sail Inn, Shercock, Co. Cavan's landlords. Sandra is the daughter of Michael Eavis, founder of Glastonbury, hence the festival connection & fantastic prize. She runs the pub in the town of Shercock with her partner Niall, who's from the area.
The reason the competition came into being was to try to drum up some interest in the Pub, with the hope of establishing it as a venue for new bands. Niall and Sandra, with help from their good friend John ran the contest not knowing how it would be received. At first there was a mixed response; some people were concerned that because of the prize it must be a scam. Others felt that they might indeed get to play Glastonbury; but in the corner of a remote field on a tiny stage at 4am! Neither of these were the case and those who took the leap of faith played heats every Sunday night for 6 weeks, culminating in a very close grand final, which was won by the band Shouting at Planes. The band went on to play the queen's head stage Glastonbury on Sat. 26th June to an enthusiastic and appreciative audience. Those with any doubts about this can follow the link to the official Glastonbury website where you can see their name clearly printed on the programme.
http://www.glastonburyfestivals.co.uk/line-up-poster/
They also went on to play a smaller, unscheduled gig in a wine bar run by a relative of the Eavis family, and had a ball. They received VIP hospitality passes to the festival, which entitled them access restricted areas, and to camp in the VIP camping area. They met various well known musicians in the hospitality bar, and made valuable contacts in the industry.
You can contact the band on their myspace http://www.myspace.com/shoutingatplanes or facebook pages http://www.facebook.com/shoutingatplanes for verification and you can also have a look their Glastonbury photo's.
Shouting at Planes are indeed from Cavan, but not from Shercock. This is no surprise as due to it being the first year of the contest and the fact that it wasn't heavily promoted, details of the contest mainly spread through word of mouth, and a large proportion of the entries came from the local area. Indeed, there were actually musicians who actually played the contest twice due to being members of two different bands!
The voting structure last year was a source of derision, and was ill advised. The decision to allow people pay to vote was terrible. It was, strange as it may sound, designed to avoid a cover charge allowing more people to come to the contests. It left people to make up their own minds about whether to vote or not. It was of course open to exploitation and some people tried to take advantage of it. Fortunately the Judges had enough of a proportion of the votes to make sure the contest wouldn't be a wipeout. The inclusion of a wildcard final and a Judges only vote for the final of the competition meant that fair play was observed. This year thankfully, it's a straightforward cover charge and one man, one vote.
You have mentioned concerns about the €10 administration fee. I assure you that nobody is going to get rich from it! I would hope that we will receive 100 entries but with the effort & money involved in organising and recording a demo, and within the designated time frame it is highly unlikely. The money goes into promotion and admin. costs; posters have to be designed, printed, posted & delivered to music shops, colleges, pubs, venues, studios and various locations all over Ireland. Phone calls have to be made, ads placed, and meetings with contacts held. Then all the applicants have to be contacted to let them know whether they've qualified. It all adds up to a substantial amount of money. This happens first when we call for entries, and we do it all over again to promote the competition itself when it starts. If in the unlikely event money is left over I don't think there is anything wrong with the organisers keeping it. This is not a charity, or a scheme for new bands, it is a competition run to promote and bring business to the Pub of the organisers, during a recession that's putting many like them out of business daily. The fact that it is of such huge benfit to the bands too is great. I reckon everyone's a winner.
I can totally understand how you would have concerns about any competition that appeals to aspiring young musicians trying to get their first big break. I have friends and relatives involved in the business who unfortunately were exploited along the way, and am only too familiar with some of the more sinister types involved in the industry. I can wholeheartedly say that it would not be in the interest of the Eavis Family, who have, over 40 years, built Glastonbury on it's reputation for integrity, to be involved in anything underhanded.
Sandra & Niall are two hardworking conscientious people who will more than happily pull you a pint, or make you a cup of tea and chat with you in more detail about the competition or indeed anything else, any day in the Sail Inn. Hey, they might even make you dinner!
I hope i've put your mind at rest, if there's anything else you'd like to know, feel free to ask.
Olivia
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Battle-of-the-Bands-Shercock/154397761264283
http://www.myspace.com/shercockbandbattle
battleofthebandsshercock@gmail.com

Thanks for the post. Good to see organisers putting in the time to explain their competition for a change. However, as a musician myself and im sure many others agree, competitions with a crowd vote are massively flawed and its very rare that the best band win. Firstly as its obvious that a local band will get a far higher turnout than a band travelling from somewhere like Cork or Dublin. Secondly as your slot on the night changes the amount of neutral votes you get massively. For example, if your first onstage, the place will probably be pretty empty where as if your last on, the place is packed and you are fresher in peoples minds when they go to vote. I personally made the decision that im never paying to enter a competition that has any kind of voting structure in it again, even if it is local to me as its never about the music but more about how many mates you have.

Best of luck with the competition anyway and it is a great prize and oppertunity for whoever wins it but living 2 hours each way from the venue, i know we wouldnt stand a chance no matter how good or bad we are.

Fandango

UCC LMS wrote: »

Just some advice for Olivia and the organisers, the audience should not get a vote. Bands from outside of Cavan will have a harder time then and in Battle of the Bands "Crowd Reaction" is normally a point to consider on the scoring card of the judges anyway. And as someone else mentioned a band from Cork would be screwed in such a scenario. There is no reason to give the audience a vote, it doesn't appear "fairer" at all although I know that this is probably the reason why the audience vote was put in in the first place.
As long as you have a few judges who don't have connections to any bands then it's fair. And if you can make it clearly fair then this event could get the best unsigned bands from the country competing. I know myself being from Cork that some bands wouldn't bother entering upon hearing that there is an audience vote in Cavan.

Agreed. I did do one before where the audience were forced to vote for 2 bands so it made it a little fairer as they had to put a band in who they arent mates with also. The only problem here was the natural reaction of the bands and their fans was to put the band they felt was weakest down as the second choice instead to give their friends band a better chance. I remember talking to the organiser of it after and he told me on one of the heats there was a band that couldnt sing, couldnt play and were by far the weakest, but as everyone spotted this they thought putting them as the second vote was making it safer for their mates band which resulted in the weak act almost winning it! The only fair way is to have a few independant judges with different musical tastes and tallying the scores they give but obviously bands wont work as hard to get people in the door if its a judges vote so there wouldnt be near the same business done.

aperture_nuig

Agree with Fandango.

Would much prefer to see such a good prize decided by a good panel of judges as opposed to a crowd vote.

..and I've never entered a BOTB with a crowd vote where I didn't end up coming home bitter, it's an unbelievably flawed way to go about doing things.

Fandango

aperture_nuig wrote: »

..and I've never entered a BOTB with a crowd vote where I didn't end up coming home bitter, it's an unbelievably flawed way to go about doing things.

Thats the point, if you lose to a band that caught the judges eye moreso than you, thats fair enough. If you lose to a band that came first simply because more of their mates had nothing to do that night than yours, then it will make you bitter. I dont put it down to being a sore loser at all in that scenario, i put it down to a feeling of being cheated.

Sometimes its fair enough that the band has a big following anyway because they are good and catchy but more times than not its because all their friends from college or whatever came out to support them as a friend, not as a fan.

drumdrum

Fandango wrote: »

Thats the point, if you lose to a band that caught the judges eye moreso than you, thats fair enough. If you lose to a band that came first simply because more of their mates had nothing to do that night than yours, then it will make you bitter. I dont put it down to being a sore loser at all in that scenario, i put it down to a feeling of being cheated.

Sometimes its fair enough that the band has a big following anyway because they are good and catchy but more times than not its because all their friends from college or whatever came out to support them as a friend, not as a fan.

Well ok, then ask yourself this.....what is a good band? Why do you deserve to win instead of the winning band?

Judges on judging panels are people in the end of the day with their own genre / sound preferences influencing their decisions. The bottom line is that there is no such thing as a 100% completely fair way to decide winners at BOTBands.....its just something we have to live with.

Sure the winning band may have brought more mates, but then why didnt you put the effort into getting your mates there or promoting your music leading up to the main event?
The end of the day, if you win then fair play to yeh, but if you didnt then you really have no right to be pissed off at the band that did win as more often than not, they are actually pretty decent and its your bitterness that gets cast on them.


What IS it with Irish bands refusing to acknowledge that there are tons of great bands out there apart from themselves??

Prefab Sprouter

To be honest, el Hombre makes a good point here, and the pub might be putting the cart before the horse. If its truly serious about getting itself known as a serious music venue, then perhaps run a few nights for bands with no competitions perhaps along the lines of the Sunday Roast in Dublin to build up its profile. That way it will become known over time as a good place to hear live music and also a good place to play. These things take time and given that last years competition wasnt exactly without controversy pinning your hopes on a battle of the bands gig to raise your profile is possibly a tad optimistic.

UCC LMS

drumdrum wrote: »

Well ok, then ask yourself this.....what is a good band? Why do you deserve to win instead of the winning band?

Judges on judging panels are people in the end of the day with their own genre / sound preferences influencing their decisions. The bottom line is that there is no such thing as a 100% completely fair way to decide winners at BOTBands.....its just something we have to live with.

Sure the winning band may have brought more mates, but then why didnt you put the effort into getting your mates there or promoting your music leading up to the main event?
The end of the day, if you win then fair play to yeh, but if you didnt then you really have no right to be pissed off at the band that did win as more often than not, they are actually pretty decent and its your bitterness that gets cast on them.


What IS it with Irish bands refusing to acknowledge that there are tons of great bands out there apart from themselves??

Disagree completely with this. You say things like "why didn't you put the effort into getting your mates..."
The competition is a music competition not a "who can string along more mates to a gig competition".

Independent Judges vote is the fairest way and I don't believe that it would hinder the crowd capacity if you did it this way either....you don't need to offer the crowd a vote in order to do this....if you do it fair and make that clear then there will be good enough bands entering that you offer a very good gig for people to go to....bands will still bring friends and you could possibly ask each band to bring people as crowd reaction will always be considered by judges.

Fandango

drumdrum wrote: »

Well ok, then ask yourself this.....what is a good band? Why do you deserve to win instead of the winning band?

Judges on judging panels are people in the end of the day with their own genre / sound preferences influencing their decisions. The bottom line is that there is no such thing as a 100% completely fair way to decide winners at BOTBands.....its just something we have to live with.

Sure the winning band may have brought more mates, but then why didnt you put the effort into getting your mates there or promoting your music leading up to the main event?
The end of the day, if you win then fair play to yeh, but if you didnt then you really have no right to be pissed off at the band that did win as more often than not, they are actually pretty decent and its your bitterness that gets cast on them.


What IS it with Irish bands refusing to acknowledge that there are tons of great bands out there apart from themselves??

Slightly ott response there if ya dont mind me saying....

So your suggesting there is no difference between a group of judges from different backgrounds coming up with a winner between them and a band winning purely cos they have more friends who may or may not like the music but are voting purely on who their mates are?

Anyway, the rest of your post seems to be primarily trying to put words in my mouth. Never said i was pissed off with the winning band in any competition, never said i dont think there are any great bands around and never said i thought my band were better than any other.

Why didnt i put the effort into getting my mates there? Firstly if you read back, im talking generally about these types of competitions, not about any competition i have personally been a part of. Secondly, depending where you are in your life can change the pull of people you have. For example, do you think a solo act in his or her 40s will be able to get nearly the same crowd as say a 6 piece band in their late teens? Quality of the music doesnt matter as 6 people in school or college will obviously be able to destroy the other act on crowd votes. And before you ask if this is a bitter post, no im not a soloist in my 40s!

drumdrum

UCC LMS wrote: »

Disagree completely with this. You say things like "why didn't you put the effort into getting your mates..."
The competition is a music competition not a "who can string along more mates to a gig competition".

Independent Judges vote is the fairest way and I don't believe that it would hinder the crowd capacity if you did it this way either....you don't need to offer the crowd a vote in order to do this....

Hmm....I think I didnt get my intentions across in my previous post. Upon re-reading it it was a bit ott, my appologies Fandango!

The point I was trying to make is that audience vote / judges / sentient cyborgs....whatever system you use will never be 100% fair. Outside influences and personal tastes will ALWAYS have some bear upon a persons decision.

I agree that every BotBands should be about talent and not who has the most mates. But having a good crowd with you does make you look better especially as they will cheer you on and a group mentality of the band being good is more likely to spread.

For example, anyone at a gig will not mosh around and jump around to a bands music if they are the only one doing it. If there is a group of people doing it, its then ok to do it.....confidence in numbers so to speak.
Now apply this to a BotBands scenario. A band with a large group of friends in the audience who cheer and rain adulation down upon their friends will make the band look better than they probably are. Well, they will look a hell of a lot better than the band who brought no one with them, thats for sure!

UCC LMS wrote: »

...if you do it fair and make that clear then there will be good enough bands entering that you offer a very good gig for people to go to....bands will still bring friends and you could possibly ask each band to bring people as crowd reaction will always be considered by judges.

Now this point I find very interesting. As someone who has organised and put on gigs in the past, from my experiences is that most bands are either lazy or not very good when it comes to self-promotion and marketing themselves. Bands tend to bring less and less mates as their "careers" progress, as friends who dont like the bands music feel like they have paid their dues and move on. And considering that most bands do their first few gigs to all their mates in venues with poor sound, its no wonder that few friends return. The bands that do tend to maintain a consistent audience are the ones that get themselves a product (a decent recording), who put the effort into self promotion and who done over gig their friend-base.
I understand BotBands using an audience vote to judge a band as its one of the few incentives that generally works with a band to get off their tods and to self promote.
The venues / organizers themselves have costs to pay that they usually don't/shouldn't pass onto the bands....they pass them onto the people that are there to see the band.

Ok then picture this....a BotBands where there are 5 bands in a heat and no one has bothered to bring any friends as they all figure "sure its a judge vote, so it shouldnt matter". It would be a fairly boring BotBands and while it may be fairer than an audience vote, the venue would never get the organisers back, who in turn wouldnt go near the bands again. So at the end you are left with a pissed off venue, with a pissed off organiser who is now blacklisted, and 4 pissed off bands who swear that the judges "wouldn't know good music if it slapped them in the face"! You cant win with the losing bands anyways....

In the end of the day, being in a band is a form of entertainment, which again in itself is all about popularity. If a TV show wasn't good or popular it would be cancelled.....same with a band. If it isn't much use, or popular, then the band has no future.
Oh and I dont equate being good to being popular or vice versa. There are plenty of great bans out there who get lost among the sea of competitors. But generally if you are popular enough you are doing something right somewhere, even if its for wrong reasons. I mean look at the talentless douchbags Jedward. Not a drop of musical talent between them, but they are entertaining and popular amongst their target audience. You gotta think of the bigger picture sometimes....performing ****e music and having thousands of young fans will give you a much longer and successful career in music than playing good music to an audience of one.

OliviaB

Hi again,

Seems things are heating up out there, and a lot of issues are coming to the fore.
I suppose the one that seems to concern people most is the voting structure.
This is the most difficult aspect of any competition to organise, as nobody can ever guarantee complete objectivity. If it is left totally down to audience participation the results can be very unfair, similarly, leaving the results of heats to an unknown judging panel does little to encourage bands confidence, and also overlooks the fact that fans like to have a say.
It is true that some of last year's acts brought lots of support, but they weren't always local acts, and some local acts could only muster up 3 or 4 people. Some acts' supporters came along but voted for other acts! Bringing a lot of people can increase your chances but is no guarantee of success. One of last year's most successful acts was from the south of the country, and brought no supporters. They made it into the final and apparently were highly placed.
The voting structure itself last yr was split between audience & Judges. Audience had a proportion of the overall votes, then each judge had theirs. Also each week, judges would nominate a wildcard act, who went on to play in a wildcard final. The winner of this competition earned a place in the grand final. The grand final result was down to judges with no audience participation.
There will be wildcards and a wildcard final this year too.
As I have said before, we had a large proportion of entries from counties Cavan and Monaghan, which obviously gave these counties a better chance of being placed.
This didn't stop rivalries developing between this sector of the competitors and within this there were some who felt they should have done better than they did, or that other local bands were favoured. Indeed, local bands who weren't successful went on to become some of our most vocal opposers. What I'm trying to say is that some people feel that they're at a disadvantage by not being local, some because they are, others because they're not 18 & in an indie rock band. It's important to look outside this and have faith in what you do. If you concentrate on all the things that detract from you, you're at risk of letting them define you. I thoroughly believe that when an act is truly special, they will step out on stage and all the hard work, long hours and that creative spark will transcend anything else.
I'd also like to appeal to those from outside the area not to write off their chances. Don't forget that you will probably bring something fresh and new to the competition, as the crowd and the judges probably won't have heard you before. I know myself that the most exciting thing about attending these contests is getting the chance to see new exciting talent for the very first time.
There was actually quite a bit of diversity in last yrs finals. Here's a rough breakdown of counties as they were represented;
Wildcard final; no act from Cavan area, 1 from Laois, 1 Monaghan, 1 from Donegal, 1 from Limerick, 1 from Tipperary,
and even in the Grand Final;
with 1 from Laois, 2 from Donegal, 2 from Navan, 1 from Monaghan & 2 from Cavan.
Don't forget, regardless of how you are placed this is an opportunity to reach a new audience, see what other musicians are up to, and to showcase your talent in front of potentially important contacts.
Also, don't forget that most music fans and Judges are pretty straight up and it's not fair to go assuming they're all biased.
The Judging panel will be carefully selected to represent a good balanced cross section of the music audience, and will hopefully include guest judges who are well established in the industry.
We are really trying our best here, and fair play is something of the utmost importance to all involved in running the event.

Also,
I'm not sure who, but somebody was wondering about what the sail Inn has done to promote itself as a venue. Before I even get that far I'd like to just point out that it is a small country pub. This may explain why most of you won't have heard of it. I don't think this should detract from it's attempts to market itself as a small local venue & hold it's annual big event in the Battle of the Bands. I am a little confused as to the tone of the enquiry. It seemed angry in some way. I'm not sure where the offence lay but I should point out that as a small, privately run business, the pub is not under any obligation to advertise all over Ireland or to make sure everyone's heard of it.
Many of the acts who took part in last yr's competition were invited back to play gigs, and since then a monthly open mic night has been running to great success.

I hope that answers all your questions as this two finger typing is taking it's toll and I have to sign off now!
Regards,
Olivia

drumdrum

Hi Olivia,
Thanks for that. Clears up a few things....

Just out of curiosity, were there no bands from Dublin last year, or were they simply not good enough to put through?

Also, do you mind telling us why there is a €10 entrance fee for the bands? IMO, this is the only suspicious part of the BOTB (to which Im sure there is a suitable explanation - you seem like a sound lass) and hopefully you can clarify why this is needed.

Thanks!

OliviaB

Hi again,
We did indeed have representation from Dublin but I only got to see one. They were from the Finglas/ Coolock direction from what I remember and were really good but didn't make it through. I think a Navan band actually won that night. There may have been more but I didn't see every act last yr.
The €10 is an administration fee and goes towards promoting & advertising the contest both in the call for submissions and when it's time to advertise the competition itself. It also goes into corresponding with acts, judges etc. I explained this in more detail in an earlier post if you want to have a bit of a look for it.
Hope that helps!
Olivia

Fandango

OliviaB wrote: »

Hi again,
We did indeed have representation from Dublin but I only got to see one. They were from the Finglas/ Coolock direction from what I remember and were really good but didn't make it through. I think a Navan band actually won that night. There may have been more but I didn't see every act last yr.
The €10 is an administration fee and goes towards promoting & advertising the contest both in the call for submissions and when it's time to advertise the competition itself. It also goes into corresponding with acts, judges etc. I explained this in more detail in an earlier post if you want to have a bit of a look for it.
Hope that helps!
Olivia

On thinking about this, its unfair of us to turn this thread into a debate on a structure that a huge amount of BOTB use so apologies. It does have its pros and cons for both bands and venue and in fairness to you, you do seem to want to put on the best event possible so best of luck with it. And as for the prize, i think most bands would take a place at Glastonbury over the more common "day in a studio....which is more or less a small room with a dictaphone"

Anyway, best of luck to all involved and whoever wins, do us all proud across the water