Work for the non-graduates

How are ya?

Hi, I never went to university and I was wondering does anyone know what kind of jobs people like me should go for? And is there any point?

qwertz

Some questions to enable us to help you:

How old are you?

What are your professional interests?

What experience do you have?

How are ya?

qwertz wrote: »

Some questions to enable us to help you:

How old are you?

What are your professional interests?

What experience do you have?

I'm 25.
Journalism. (not qualified obviously)
I've worked in a call-centre, as a shop assistant, for DHL, in a hotel.

Rebelheart

How are ya? wrote: »

I'm 25.
Journalism. (not qualified obviously)
I've worked in a call-centre, as a shop assistant, for DHL, in a hotel.

If you're 25 then, to be very, very honest, your best investment is to go to uni and complete a degree. If you work hard enough you could have your PhD, if you want one, by 30. Either way, not going to university at 25 years of age is storing up a shedload of trouble for yourself. Be sensible and think about your future. This probably isn't the answer you want, but it is the answer you need. Education is freedom.

/end thread.

qwertz

I'd agree with Rebelheart. Unfortuately, journalism isn't that great a skill to have. Before somebody reads this the wrong way, there is nothing wrong with journalism but we do have an oversupply and the money isn't that good.

If you can then go back to school. Do something that is of interest to you AND has a future.

Bluetonic

Rebelheart wrote: »

If you're 25 then, to be very, very honest, your best investment is to go to uni and complete a degree. If you work hard enough you could have your PhD, if you want one, by 30.

Five years from no third level to PhD.

Thats unrealistic and more important unachievable.

pow wow

I'd disagree somewhat with the college suggestion - there's very little to stop you being an unemployed graduate 3 or 4 years from now (we all know some of them already!). Not everyone wants or needs a degree...or a PhD for that matter. Education may be 'freedom' but you aren't necessarily shackled without it.

OP, if you are thinking employability (which you seem to be) I'd focus on some kind of training that gives you a marketable skillset or knowledge base. My first degree is in History and it's not proving terribly useful in an employment context if you know what I mean:P Journalism is hard to break into and the prospects aren't great, but if you have your heart set on that and only that then there are plenty of part-time further ed courses related to it which, even if they don't lead to a job in journalism, would equip you with skills that are valuable in many types of jobs and marketable to potential employers.

StupidLikeAFox

If your into journalism and want to do it as a career, a simple and cheap option would be to get a blog and start writing. Maybe have a couple in different niches. Ya never know, it might take off

Rebelheart

Bluetonic wrote: »

Five years from no third level to PhD.

Thats unrealistic and more important unachievable.

A degree = 3 years. It's not at all common but I know two people who completed their PhD in two years. At any rate, the point is that if they want to get any qualification now is the time to do it and by the time they are 30 they could be well into their ACCA qualifications, Law Society/PP1 exams, or whatever he or she chooses.

hinault

University education is not a pre-requisite for a job, thank God.

hinault

How are ya? wrote: »

Hi, I never went to university and I was wondering does anyone know what kind of jobs people like me should go for? And is there any point?

what's your field of work/experience?

Have you looked at working on a self employed basis for others?

Rebelheart

hinault wrote: »

University education is not a pre-requisite for a job, thank God.

pow wow wrote: »

I'd disagree somewhat with the college suggestion - there's very little to stop you being an unemployed graduate 3 or 4 years from now (we all know some of them already!). Not everyone wants or needs a degree...or a PhD for that matter. Education may be 'freedom' but you aren't necessarily shackled without it.

The fact remains that you greatly increase you career prospects by having at least a degree. Just because there are, as you correctly say, many unemployed graduates does not negate the fact that over the medium-long term their prospects are significantly better than somebody who has not completed third level.

You're correct that you're not shackled without education. I could, for instance, just give up work sign on or get a low paying job and put my name on the social housing list and take life relatively easy. It's definitely doable. But most of us want to achieve something, and accumulate things. To fulfil the latter you do need a good job. You've a much better chance of getting that good job with a third level qualification. You also increase the chances and opportunities of your own children.

Bluetonic

Rebelheart wrote: »

A degree = 3 years.

I doubt it very much if from a 3 degree you will be accepted straight onto a PhD.

Bluetonic

Bluetonic wrote: »

I doubt it very much if from a 3 degree you will be accepted straight onto a PhD.

I agree. And I don't know a single person who has done a PhD in 2 years. Most people take at least 3 or 4. Let's be realistic, education takes up a lot of time. I spent 5 years doing my undergrad and MA and that was without any gap years or time off. My ex (24) is still working on his PhD and he's been in college since he was 17. If I were to begin third level now (I'm also 25), I'd have to have a serious think about whether it was worth it.

Rebelheart

Bluetonic wrote: »

I doubt it very much if from a 3 degree you will be accepted straight onto a PhD.

Landyn Gifted Hawk wrote: »

I agree. And I don't know a single person who has done a PhD in 2 years. Most people take at least 3 or 4. Let's be realistic, education takes up a lot of time. I spent 5 years doing my undergrad and MA and that was without any gap years or time off. My ex (24) is still working on his PhD and he's been in college since he was 17. If I were to begin third level now (I'm also 25), I'd have to have a serious think about whether it was worth it.

Of course you will. If you get a 1.1/high 2.1 you will not have to do a research masters and will instead go straight into the PhD. The benefit to the university of the gradual elimination of research masters as an entry point into the doctoral programme is obvious: it increases the research and publication output of the university, which affects much of the university's world ranking and ability to receive further funding. Your personal funding will most likely, or at least in the past ten years has, come from being awarded a doctoral scholarship based upon your final year degree result. We're digressing now anyway.

I find it hard to believe that there are people here denying the importance of getting at least a degree to their career prospects.

Bluetonic

Rebelheart wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that there are people here denying the importance of getting at least a degree to their career prospects.

People deny all sort, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

How are ya?

Hi, thanks for all the replies.
I don't want to sound lazy but 5 years or whatever in university doesn’t appeal to me. Seems like a lot of evert and as some people have said it doesn’t guarantee employment.
If I was just leaving school again I'd probably do that instead of what I did, which was basically be a waster. I regret that now.
I know there's a lot of people in my situation and some are choosing emigration but I know people who say it's not all that rosy in other countries and not having a qualification won’t help abroad either.
I'm just sick of being on the dole, I want a job. I apply all the time but it feels like I'm wasting my time.

Rebelheart

Rebelheart wrote: »

Of course you will. If you get a 1.1/high 2.1 you will not have to do a research masters and will instead go straight into the PhD. The benefit to the university of the gradual elimination of research masters as an entry point into the doctoral programme is obvious: it increases the research and publication output of the university, which affects much of the university's world ranking and ability to receive further funding. Your personal funding will most likely, or at least in the past ten years has, come from being awarded a doctoral scholarship based upon your final year degree result. We're digressing now anyway.

They don't give PhD funding out like sweets. The requirements for a lot of courses are extremely high and there's a lot of competition for funding. Perhaps it is easier in Ireland than in the UK, but it's not as if you tell them you fancy doing a PhD and they say 'ah here you go then!' Not to mention that the majority of people are not cut out for doing one - it takes an incredible amount of motivation. I recently finished an MA course where most of the other students had good degrees from places like Cambridge and the majority are NOT going on to do a PhD because they're burned out from the study. I think you're totally underestimating how difficult it is. And thinking you'll finish a PhD in 2 years is, in most cases, completely unrealistic.

I find it hard to believe that there are people here denying the importance of getting at least a degree to their career prospects.

I find it equally hard to believe that there are people acting like doing a degree and a PhD over 7 years after leaving school is a piece of cake. A friend of mine just started an undergrad degree at UCD and he's having a really tough time because he's not used to writing essays in a certain way and not having all his evenings and weekends free. You also have to consider whether the cost of doing a degree is worth the outcome, and whether you're likely to do well enough to make it worthwhile. Even if OP escapes paying fees, it still costs a hell of a lot to support yourself while studying, with no guarantee of a job at the other end.

pow wow

Rebelheart wrote: »

The fact remains that you greatly increase you career prospects by having at least a degree. Just because there are, as you correctly say, many unemployed graduates does not negate the fact that over the medium-long term their prospects are significantly better than somebody who has not completed third level.

You're correct that you're not shackled without education. I could, for instance, just give up work sign on or get a low paying job and put my name on the social housing list and take life relatively easy. It's definitely doable. But most of us want to achieve something, and accumulate things. To fulfil the latter you do need a good job. You've a much better chance of getting that good job with a third level qualification. You also increase the chances and opportunities of your own children.

The undertone of snobbery in your post is mindblowing. Not wishing to derail the thread but really - just because you equate success with educational attainment and consumption it doesn't mean that everyone else does (likewise with your assertion that low-paying jobs and social housing are the easy way out). And what determines a 'good' job to someone who isn't as consumption driven as yourself? We would all like a 'nice' life I'm sure but it's a relative concept.

My point is that that being booksmart and being intelligent aren't always the same thing and not everyone needs a college education to feel they've achieved something or indeed to make a go of their life. College might be doable for a lot of people but whether it's worth the time and effort (not to mention the opportunity cost of removing yourself from the workforce for x number of years...however poorly paid a job you might have) is a whole other story. When there are no jobs your 'prospects' are exactly the same as everyone else. I'm not saying a degree is valueless, I'm saying not everyone needs one. There is a huge difference.

Best of luck to the OP.

hmmm

Sounds like you've already had a couple of jobs so you're not doing too bad. Your best bet for the future is perhaps to get in at ground level (e.g. call centre) and work your way up from there. You might also want to think about learning a trade if you're that way inclined.

Rebelheart

Landyn Gifted Hawk wrote: »

They don't give PhD funding out like sweets. The requirements for a lot of courses are extremely high and there's a lot of competition for funding. Perhaps it is easier in Ireland than in the UK, but it's not as if you tell them you fancy doing a PhD and they say 'ah here you go then!' Not to mention that the majority of people are not cut out for doing one - it takes an incredible amount of motivation. I recently finished an MA course where most of the other students had good degrees from places like Cambridge and the majority are NOT going on to do a PhD because they're burned out from the study. I think you're totally underestimating how difficult it is. And thinking you'll finish a PhD in 2 years is, in most cases, completely unrealistic.



I find it equally hard to believe that there are people acting like doing a degree and a PhD over 7 years after leaving school is a piece of cake. A friend of mine just started an undergrad degree at UCD and he's having a really tough time because he's not used to writing essays in a certain way and not having all his evenings and weekends free. You also have to consider whether the cost of doing a degree is worth the outcome, and whether you're likely to do well enough to make it worthwhile. Even if OP escapes paying fees, it still costs a hell of a lot to support yourself while studying, with no guarantee of a job at the other end.

Will all due respect, you're showing you haven't a clue about this area. I went straight from my undergrad to my PhD, as do the vast majority of people who do PhDs today. One reason why I got through it is because I can perceive nuances in languages - for instance, I neither said nor implied that PhDs were given out like sweets - quite the contrary - nor did I suggest that a PhD was for everybody, or even for many people. I merely said that in five years, if the OP wished, he could have both his degree and PhD completed. It's called positive thinking; it's called encouragement. It's precisely the sort of support which I received when I needed it. A degree, like a PhD, like any other qualification, is always a much bigger event when you haven't got it. That's perspective and experience talking.

At any rate, you're digressing from the main point, namely that people who have completed a third level qualification greatly increase their career prospects. Why people here want to deny this is beyond me.

Rebelheart

pow wow wrote: »

The undertone of snobbery in your post is mindblowing.

Nonsense. Insecure nonsense.

pow wow wrote: »

Not wishing to derail the thread but really - just because you equate success with educational attainment and consumption it doesn't mean that everyone else does (likewise with your assertion that low-paying jobs and social housing are the easy way out).

Of course, I never equated 'success' with educational attainment. I equated better career prospects with educational attainment. There is a very obvious difference so please stop projecting your own insecurities upon my actual comments. Next time, please improve your command of English before ranting.

pow wow wrote: »

And what determines a 'good' job to someone who isn't as consumption driven as yourself? We would all like a 'nice' life I'm sure but it's a relative concept.

Blah. "Consumption" includes getting extra music classes for your children, extra language classes for them, extra sports for them....

Most Irish people now, whether you like it or not, aspire to be able to provide well for their children. You have a point, and one which I share. I gave up years of my earning capacity to get to the highest level of the education system. I don't need lectures from anybody about "success". You're just missing the practical element to that point.

pow wow wrote: »

My point is that that being booksmart and being intelligent aren't always the same thing

That's true; it's just a pity that the average employer has nothing much to go on but educational qualifications. Resist this reality as much as you will, but a reality it remains.

pow wow wrote: »

College might be doable for a lot of people but whether it's worth the time and effort (not to mention the opportunity cost of removing yourself from the workforce for x number of years...however poorly paid a job you might have) is a whole other story.

Tut, Tut. Do I sense the hypocrisy of the consumer underneath your entire post? I gave up that earning capacity; I made that sacrifice. And you have the gall to claim that I am propagating a consumerist culture by allegedly "equating success with consumption".

pow wow wrote: »

When there are no jobs your 'prospects' are exactly the same as everyone else. I'm not saying a degree is valueless, I'm saying not everyone needs one. There is a huge difference.

1. Your first sentence is nonsense: if I have a job to offer and two people with equal experience come into my office but one has a degree, you don't need to be a brain surgeon to see which one the average employer is going to choose.
2. Nobody said "everyone" needs a degree. However, if you want to see your career progress, a degree (at least) is very much a benefit. This is not brain science.