25ml Shots - Legal?

irish_goat

Quick question, in the pub the other night with a bunch of international students and they all love doing shots of whiskey so I got a round and they were served in 25ml shot glasses but I was charged full whack for them. At the time I was drunk enough that I didn't care but are the pub allowed to do this given that 35.5ml is the legal measurement?

the beer revolu

I believe that, now, it is legal to serve spirits charged by the cl.
However it is wrong to charge for 35.5 ml and only give 25ml.

rubadub

Good question, I am not sure but I would guess they cannot, otherwise other pubs would be at it all the time and you would have heard of it by now and be certain to ask for a 35.5ml or 1/4 gill shot.

There have been cases of fines for diluted spirits in the past. And the purty kitchen were caught serving low alcohol vodka

http://www.meas.ie/page.php?intPageID=508

the double vodka and red bull offer was run using a vodka substitute named Vodkova. It has a similar taste but far lower alcohol content than actual vodka...

The advertisement stated, for example, that vodka as opposed to Vodkova would be used; this misrepresentation would lead customers to believe they would be purchasing standard vodka.

I would say it is at least false advertising if they did not clearly state it is 25ml.

BeerNut

It all comes down to the legal definition of "full whack" :P

From my reading of the law, they are allowed serve 25ml measures. However, they must display the price per 25ml of the drink on their pricelist. They must also display the price per 35.5ml of at least one of their whiskeys. If it's the one that they're serving in 25ml shots then it should be proportional.

irish_goat

It was €4 per 25ml Jameson. I'll double check the 35ml price and see if there's a price list floating around next time I'm in.

Molloys Clondalkin

Jesus
If youre allowed Id love you to name and shame the premisis that has that horrible practice

Jev/N

If you're in the UK...

Losty Dublin

BeerNut wrote: »

It all comes down to the legal definition of "full whack" :P

From my reading of the law, they are allowed serve 25ml measures. However, they must display the price per 25ml of the drink on their pricelist. They must also display the price per 35.5ml of at least one of their whiskeys. If it's the one that they're serving in 25ml shots then it should be proportional.

Would the optics or shot glasses need to be adjudicated and assessed by the Legal Metrology people to make sure that they are legitimate measures as well before they can use them to sell 25ml measures?

BeerNut

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Would the optics or shot glasses need to be adjudicated and assessed by the Legal Metrology people to make sure that they are legitimate measures as well before they can use them to sell 25ml measures?

The manufacturer would have to be assessed, I think. Interestingly, the company that the Irish authorities use to assess optics is an optics manufacturer based in the UK, so I doubt there's any problem bringing in UK optics to Ireland.

Molloys Clondalkin

An interesting point beernut as lately Ive seen a lot of places with those plastic shot tumblers widely available from dunni stands all over the country.
there is a legal definition that a pint glass has to be ce marked to state its a pint.
was the shot glass overlooked in this case? or is the substitution of a glass shot to a plastic shot thats smaller really the issue here?

BeerNut

Molloys Clondalkin wrote: »

was the shot glass overlooked in this case?

I guess. Pouring directly from a bottle into a shot glass is a fairly recent import to Ireland (in fact, I don't think I've ever seen it done in real life here). I suspect it happens in places where drinkers are less fastidious about measures. More fool them.

Molloys Clondalkin

Indeed, I couldnt blame pubs where shot glasses go missing or get broken easily the natural thing is to replase with the plastic equivalent in this case its the plastic "glass". but it still raises the question that a measure is 37.5ml which afaik is a legal definition ie; optics have to be calibrated with a ce mark on them. and if a pub advertises a shot of say Jagermeister and only supplies 2 thirds of that it would be misleading to the consumer.
I wonder if the boys in the legal forum would be more suited to answer this.

BeerNut

Molloys Clondalkin wrote: »

it still raises the question that a measure is 37.5ml which afaik is a legal definition

35.5ml. Yes, it's a legal measure but the law does not insist that drink be served in such a measure. You can serve any quantity as long as the price for 35.5ml is displayed and you charge proportionately. If your sign says €5 for 35.5ml, you're free to serve 25ml as long as you charge €3.52 for it.

Molloys Clondalkin wrote: »

optics have to be calibrated with a ce mark on them.

Yes, but they can be calibrated to any measure as long as it's accurate. Glassware too.

Molloys Clondalkin wrote: »

and if a pub advertises a shot of say Jagermeister and only supplies 2 thirds of that it would be misleading to the consumer.

Yes, but only if the pub advertises something called "a shot" without saying how much they mean. If you assume they mean 35.5ml and it turns out to be different then that's your fault for not reading the signage. Caveat emptor.

Molloys Clondalkin

I hear what your saying its just in most pubs and clubs you would see a sign (probably a brightly coloured chalkboard) that simply states a shot of x drink for x amount. with no mention of how much is in the glass.
if it was say a shot of middelton 25 yo for 20 euro wouldnt you be peed off that it was only 25ml instead of the "standard" 35.5??

I would. A lot of these plases have there price lists outside that dont include these "specials" It happens and to be honost it wasnt something I really tought about untill the op wrote the post. but I do think its not fair play to pay say 5 euro for a 20 ml shot in a plastic shot glass, when you could get 35.5 ml by asking for it in a say whiskey tumbler glass and forcing the barman to use a measure to pour it in.

actually I just remembered an old pub I used to frequent that had a similar sign for cocktails what would the legal definition be there with those? on the pricelist it just said "Cosmo" etc with no mention of volume.

BeerNut

Molloys Clondalkin wrote: »

if it was say a shot of middelton 25 yo for 20 euro wouldnt you be peed off that it was only 25ml instead of the "standard" 35.5?

No, because if I didn't check how much I was getting I have only myself to blame. The idea of 35.5ml being "standard" is something that would exist only in my head, has no legal basis, and if I assume it then it's my own fault. Frankly, I'd be more pissed off if I lived in a country where the government dictated which quantities I was allowed to have my drink in.

Molloys Clondalkin wrote: »

A lot of these plases have there price lists outside that dont include these "specials"

Which is illegal, and a real problem. But it's a different issue. Nail them to the wall when they don't have accurate price information on display, say I, but don't encourage consumers to be lazy at the same time. Always ask; otherwise you're begging to be ripped off.