Employer very angry about sick leave

LegacyUser

Hi, i just called in sick after being at the docs, have a cert for the week, feel terrible, but my manager wants me to come back to work tomorrow and is very annoyed with me for wanting to rest. What will I do?

jimoc

Stay at home for the full length of the cert that the doctor gave you.
If your manager makes an issue of it or lets you go because of it you have a case for unfair dismissal.

LegacyUser

Thanks Jimoc. I feel so stressed because I have to ring my manager today and I'm dreading it as I know she's going to tell me to get back to work. What do I say? If I say I'm not coming back until the cert is up she will tell me that I am a bad member of the team and that I'm letting them down (retail) because she has no cover. I feel terrible.

bbam

If you're doctor has certified you unfit for work then you shouldn't be there until the time has expired. If you're manager insists on you going back you will be uninsured while at work as you have been deemed unfit by a doctor.

While I beleive your employer cannot sack you for being certified sick it is possible (i've done it regularly)that the time off sick has reduced you're overall contribution and thus may be held against you during official reviews, simply others may get promotion or pay rises for having less sick time and higher contribution overall.

It sounds like your manager is being unreasonable unless this is on the back of an ongoing issue of repeated absence. Providing cover is no issue for you to be concerned about, that is a managment responsibility.

LegacyUser

This is first time i've been sick all year, i never take sick days, it's just not worth the aggro but this time i truly am very under the weather. it's because we're under so much pressure because she's not allowed hire any cover and she's under pressure from the area manager. But how is that my fault?

gandalf

As bbam said if you have a sick cert expiring on a certain date you will not be covered by insurance if you go into work earlier and something happens to you. Your Manager should know this and you should point it out to her. It her responsibility as a Manager to ensure the business is not exposed to any risk and having uninsured staff members working is a major risk.

amdublin

gandalf wrote: »

As bbam said if you have a sick cert expiring on a certain date you will not be covered by insurance if you go into work earlier and something happens to you. Your Manager should know this and you should point it out to her. It her responsibility as a Manager to ensure the business is not exposed to any risk and having uninsured staff members working is a major risk.

I don't think this is correct.

Shelflife

Go into work tomorrow, barf all over your manager and then collapse and dont get up until the ambulance arrives. just as youre being wheeled out turn to the manager and say, ill try to be back after dinner.

your manager is being an ass, as an employer if someone rings in certified sick thats it. you cant tell them to come in. no manager worth their salt would dream of doing this.

see out your cert and get well soon.

gandalf

amdublin wrote: »

I don't think this is correct.

I have been told that by HR in several companies I have worked in.

D.McC

amdublin wrote: »

I don't think this is correct.

It is! :eek:

While you don’t have to inform your insurance carrier of every staff absence, if something was to happen to someone forced into returning to work then that would be used as a reason not to provide cover.

OP> if you are planning on drawing a line in the sand with this manager, make sure you return to the same Doctor and get a ‘fit to return to work’ cert.

Your manager is well within his / her rights to refuse to allow you come back to work, for the very same reasons you are now refusing to go to work

jethrothe2nd

amdublin wrote: »

I don't think this is correct.

It is absolutely correct.

And on a side note, it is also unprofessional of the manager to ask someone who has been certified sick by a doctor to return to work early. Not to mention poor management for making someone who has no history of absenteeism feel guilty for being unwell.

OP - the only advice I would give is to ensure that you follow whatever policy the company you work for has in terms of being out sick. That way, there can be no dispute.

Same happened to me, I was off work yesterday with severe vomiting. I went in today, went to the work doc, was diagnosed with gastroenteritis and told to GTFO and go home to bed. HR are STILL giving me a hard time, bleating on about sick notes, despite the fact that none is required until the 4th day you're off. I'm on the work intranet now getting all the info for when I go back on Monday (after my 2 day hospital leave - yippee!) Jesus Christ, like, it's bad enough being really ill without getting grilled over it as if you've done something wrong.

bbam

Jerry Steep Barber wrote: »

bleating on about sick notes, despite the fact that none is required until the 4th day you're off.

Not always the case.. For those who would have "problems" with absence certified or otherwise a manager can insist on any sick day being certified. It all comes down to the policies in any particular company..

I've done this and it's an amazing cure for casual sick days :rolleyes:

bbam

bbam wrote: »

Not always the case.. For those who would have "problems" with absence certified or otherwise a manager can insist on any sick day being certified. It all comes down to the policies in any particular company..

I've done this and it's an amazing cure for casual sick days :rolleyes:

It's in the company guidelines that no doctors note is required until the 4th day, and yesterday was my first calling in sick, after being at work on Monday looking like death warmed up. I can understand being suspicious of an employee who takes several sick days every month, but the FIRST time? If there was an obvious pattern of uncertified sick days, then that looks suspicious, but otherwise, why not believe the person?

And I'm very surprised that you can insist on any sick day being certified. I don't think that's legal here (I'm not in Ireland) and surely even in Ireland you need very, very good reason to demand something like that, such as a pattern of calling in sick for no obvious reason? The company doctor here gave me a lecture about being irresponsible for coming to work sick and spreading it to other people. You'd have to be pretty damn certain that the person really wasn't sick before you bullied them to come in. There was a girl at my old work who felt under the weather,was bullied to come in ("you don't sound sick" they said). Turned out to be shingles, and all the pregnant women in the company had to go to the doctor the next day, as they were especially vulnerable. The girl with shingles was signed off for a week anyway. Yeah, clever management.

jethrothe2nd

I too have requested sick certs for day 1 of an absence, and bbam is right - it stamps out casual sick days like a light. I would only request it if there was a situation where an employee had a high level of absenteesism or there was an emerging trend (missing Mondays for example).

The company I work for pays its employees if they are out sick. It is absolutely right that the manager has the right to request certs from day 1 in a case where he/she deems that necessary. Otherwise you potentially end up with individuals taking up to 3 days off, just because they fancy a break.

In all of this though, it really comes down to common sense. A manager/HR should have no need to request day 1 certs if there is no cause.

amdublin

D.McC wrote: »

It is! :eek:

While you don’t have to inform your insurance carrier of every staff absence, if something was to happen to someone forced into returning to work then that would be used as a reason not to provide cover.

I agree you cannot be forced to come into work with a sick cert but this is not what the original post said:

gandalf wrote: »

As bbam said if you have a sick cert expiring on a certain date you will not be covered by insurance if you go into work earlier and something happens to you. .

For example if I break my wrist and am signed off for 4 weeks.
If my wrist feels fine after two and I am able to type (and am sitting at home on boards doing just that during my sick leave ) and if I choose to go into work there are no issues with this or insurance cover etc.

wmpdd3

amdublin wrote: »

I agree you cannot be forced to come into work with a sick cert but this is not what the original post said:



For example if I break my wrist and am signed off for 4 weeks.
If my wrist feels fine after two and I am able to type (and am sitting at home on boards doing just that during my sick leave ) and if I choose to go into work there are no issues with this or insurance cover etc.

Yes there is, you need a cert from the doc saying you are fit for work.

I don't mean to be smart but if a doctor says you are unfit for work neither you or you manager is in a position to override this.

It is an insurance issue.

amdublin

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Yes there is, you need a cert from the doc saying you are fit for work.

I don't mean to be smart but if a doctor says you are unfit for work neither you or you manager is in a position to override this.

It is an insurance issue.

.

Redshift

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Yes there is, you need a cert from the doc saying you are fit for work.

I don't mean to be smart but if a doctor says you are unfit for work neither you or you manager is in a position to override this.

It is an insurance issue.

If the Doc certifies you unfit then that's it, the employer would run an awful risk by allowing you to work.
I have personal experience of attempting to return to work before my sick cert expired, the HR manager had a **** fit and I was run out of the place.:pac:

3DataModem

Bank of Ireland used to sent staff home if they still had a valid cert. Insurance reasons.

looksee

+1 if you have a cert you are not at work.

ciarangt

hi i am a manager in retail and if u are out sick on cert the job cant take u back till u give them a cert to say u are fit to work. if u were to go to work and hurt yourself u would not be insured and ur employers would not be to blame

bbam

ciarangt wrote: »

would not be insured and ur employers would not be to blame

Indeed they would... allowing persons to complete any work on site while knowing they are uninsured would leave them wide open..