toilet cistern filling slowly

DM2008

Hope someone can help.

All my toilets (3 up stairs, 1 downstairs) take ages to fill after flushing. Timed one of them upstairs and it was 15 minutes.

It's a button flush and the house is 5 years old.

It must have got worse lately as it's really noticable

Any ideas??

hanloj1

clean the valve thats connected to the float in the cistern. had to do mine. when the float goes to the bottom this allows the valve to be pushed open by the pressure of the water.

Joey the lips

you can try the above..... but i believe its another problem. I think you have high pressure cistern fittings.

There is 2 fixes i have for this.

1. Change the inlet ball valve to a low pressure fill valve

2. Balance 2 euro coins on the top of the inlet valve. It should take 2 -3. I would like to add that this is my own fix and works great in my situation. What your doing is weighting the valve so high pressure aspect does not kick in till the end of the fill. You need to watch this and make sure it does not go above the fill line.

ntpm

Joey the lips wrote: »

you can try the above..... but i believe its another problem. I think you have high pressure cistern fittings.

There is 2 fixes i have for this.

1. Change the inlet ball valve to a low pressure fill valve

2. Balance 2 euro coins on the top of the inlet valve. It should take 2 -3. I would like to add that this is my own fix and works great in my situation. What your doing is weighting the valve so high pressure aspect does not kick in till the end of the fill. You need to watch this and make sure it does not go above the fill line.

No.2 is a Nice fix:).
Do you add the 6euro's to the bill:D.

kay 9

Alot of them push button flush cisterns are a pain in the head at the best of times. At least in the old reliable ballcock type you could change the orifice;) Good advice from the lads above though.

Sparkpea

could just be the diaphragm washer needs changed

Joey the lips

ntpm wrote: »

No.2 is a Nice fix:).
Do you add the 6euro's to the bill:D.

You could. But because this usually only takes 5 mins what i use to do is just charge diesel money so if i drove for half an hour i would charge them 10 euro. It seems terriable to charge for a DIY fix. However i would show them what i was doing and point out that a new valve was the way to go normally.

I never done this on any suite i supplied I always factored in the 12 euro for a good torbeck or aquasave ball valve and supplied it.

kay 9 wrote: »

Alot of them push button flush cisterns are a pain in the head at the best of times. At least in the old reliable ballcock type you could change the orifice;) Good advice from the lads above though.

In fairness and with respect they are excellent devices and very reliable. They have less moving parts and are less of a strain on elderly hands.

The biggest problems with top flush is.

1, Sales lads do not understand how to sell them, water conservation is not the way to go. Ease of operation should be. 3/6 ltr is a waste of time. Most women and kids press the bigger button. Kids love the water and women want to be sure its gone...Its a physcology thing.

2. Most of the models imported are chinese. Nothing wrong with that. But the chinese predominently produce for the european market which is generally high pressure. To operate correctly in ireland the inlet valve should be changed.

3. Some models imported are not correctly quality checked and do not actually cover the entire rim when flushing. As far as i know WRAS regulations in the UK do not cover for this. This is another industry problem and 10 years of there supply does not seem to have corrected it. I use to set up working models in a showroom i managed to show the difference. Its amazing how quick this sells a toilet.

4. Blu loos and there like are the most deadly substance to top flush cisterns and the makers of these should be held liable. The blu loo settles on the base of the cistern and clogs up the flusher mechanism. It also blocks up the inlet valve. This results in water constantly pouring in the inlet valve and as the flusher is not sealing cause of the blu loo it flows straight down the bowl. Aside from massive water wastage you end up with a constant attic drip and if you live in a hard water area you have a stain on your bowl

Sparkpea wrote: »

could just be the diaphragm washer needs changed

Is this the diaphram on a lever operated mechanism, Thats interesting... Because i just realised that i assumed that the toilets are top flush i never actually asked the op....:eek:

DM2008

Thanks for the replies.

No idea where the inlet valve is/ looks like. I've attached a pic of the cistern, can someone point it out.

Cheers

Joey the lips

DM2008 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

No idea where the inlet valve is/ looks like. I've attached a pic of the cistern, can someone point it out.

Cheers

Now that is very strange... That is a low pressure ball valve by the looks of it... This should not be a problem.

A plumber would need to check this i imagine. Changing the inlet valve might not do anything here.

Davy

If 4 toilets are the same, I would be looking elsewhere. Have you noticed any drop in pressure in the cold taps in the hand basins? Have you had work done at your storage tank? Longshot, valve closed, and not fully opened maybe

kay 9

You should change the orifices to the black ones or it could be dirt that is in them all believe it or not as the little inlet is quite small, seen it numerous times. A plumber should sort that in 30 mins. (All 4)

Sparkpea

Joey the lips wrote: »

Now that is very strange... That is a low pressure ball valve by the looks of it... This should not be a problem.

A plumber would need to check this i imagine. Changing the inlet valve might not do anything here.

its a universal ballvalve with a high pressure tip in it, you can see the red low pressure tip next to the float.

OP you may be in a bad water area and this is the reason all 4 toilets are slow in filling as the washers are all wearing down at the same time, it could also be that theres just dirt in the tip.

first things first determine whether you need high pressure or low pressure. if you have a combi boiler then its high pressure. if you have a a storage tank in the loft then its low pressure. if you have a pressurised hot water system and all the taps/bath etc. is mains fed then so are the toilets and its high pressure.

the bit you need to be playing with is the white stand type pipe on the back righthand side of your image. this is the ballvalve/ballcock.

there will be a pipe outside of the cistern entering at the bottom right, follow it to check if theres a ballofix/shut off valve on it - if not turn the mains off (if high pressure) or valve in the loft (if low pressure).

flush the toilet to check the water has stopped filling into the cistern

then loosen the smaller green nut to the right hand side, you may be able to do it by hand or else use a pair of water pump plyers/footprints. careful taking this apart as a black flat washer may drop out of it or a red fibre washer, dont loose this and remember what way the parts come out so you can put them back in the same way.

so lift the parts you took off including the float etc onto the floor where its easier to work with, I expect if you look into the end of that you will see a white high pressure tip. if your system is low pressure system with a storage tank feeding the toilets from the loft then this needs to be replaced with the red low pressure tip which to me from your image looks like its being stored on the metal arm beside the float, take the float off, remove the tip and poke the white one out and replace it with the red one.

this is one option that could be the problem

the other option is the diaphragm washer.

disconnect the larger green nut and you will find a black diaphragm washer in it similar to this

I imagine yours could be worn with greenish gunk on it, remove this and replace it with a new diaphragm washer. normally cost about £1-2 in a plumbing wholesalers, you should get them in b&q also im sure. make sure the new washer is put in the same way that the old one comes out. the best way to remember it is theres like a smaller round part of the washer that sticks out a little it should be up against the white part that connects to the metal arm, once the arm comes up it pushes the white bit against the washer which inturn pushes against the tip which stops anymore water coming into the cistern.

put it all back together and test.

the only other thing it could be is a filter up the inside of the stand pipe. to remove this u need to disconnect the pipe/flexible going into the bottom of the ballcock and use a pair of pointy nosed pliers to pull it out.

I would try this above first tho.. let us know how you get on! you've 4 toilets to might as well try it yourself it will hardly matter if one toilet isn't working if you mess up :-)

Joey the lips

^ Thats cool... You've thought me something. Would it not be easier to change it to a low pressure inlet valve in one of them. If its still not working it confirms a pressure problem.

Sparkpea

Well he technically could fix all 4 toilets for less than £10 materials. One new ball valve could cost £20 for something like torbeck.

Is it a wholesaler you're involved in Ray or just got an interest in plumbing?

Joey the lips

Sparkpea wrote: »

Well he technically could fix all 4 toilets for less than £10 materials. One new ball valve could cost £20 for something like torbeck.

Is it a wholesaler you're involved in Ray or just got an interest in plumbing?

Ah Creditentials time...

Wholesaler/Trade/Retailler/Fitting company and now part time everything...Plumbing Heating bathrooms and tiles..and of course just a general love of helping my fellow (wo)man

As for the valve yes the parts are prob cheaper but the ball valve is techanically easier to change i imagine but as you say.....

dersawazzie

Davy wrote: »

If 4 toilets are the same, I would be looking elsewhere. Have you noticed any drop in pressure in the cold taps in the hand basins? Have you had work done at your storage tank? Longshot, valve closed, and not fully opened maybe

Whilst all points are valid and lead to much of the same thing a restriction somewhere , I would go with Davy to start with. Simply because it doesn't involve spanners and water!

Sparkpea

dersawazzie wrote: »

Whilst all points are valid and lead to much of the same thing a restriction somewhere , I would go with Davy to start with. Simply because it doesn't involve spanners and water!

fair call

even if the water has been turned off in the street during the night there could be dirt in the tip, doesn't take much to block a high pressure tip

copacetic

Sparkpea wrote: »

its a universal ballvalve with a high pressure tip in it, you can see the red low pressure tip next to the float.

OP you may be in a bad water area and this is the reason all 4 toilets are slow in filling as the washers are all wearing down at the same time, it could also be that theres just dirt in the tip.

first things first determine whether you need high pressure or low pressure. if you have a combi boiler then its high pressure. if you have a a storage tank in the loft then its low pressure. if you have a pressurised hot water system and all the taps/bath etc. is mains fed then so are the toilets and its high pressure.

the bit you need to be playing with is the white stand type pipe on the back righthand side of your image. this is the ballvalve/ballcock.

there will be a pipe outside of the cistern entering at the bottom right, follow it to check if theres a ballofix/shut off valve on it - if not turn the mains off (if high pressure) or valve in the loft (if low pressure).

flush the toilet to check the water has stopped filling into the cistern

then loosen the smaller green nut to the right hand side, you may be able to do it by hand or else use a pair of water pump plyers/footprints. careful taking this apart as a black flat washer may drop out of it or a red fibre washer, dont loose this and remember what way the parts come out so you can put them back in the same way.

so lift the parts you took off including the float etc onto the floor where its easier to work with, I expect if you look into the end of that you will see a white high pressure tip. if your system is low pressure system with a storage tank feeding the toilets from the loft then this needs to be replaced with the red low pressure tip which to me from your image looks like its being stored on the metal arm beside the float, take the float off, remove the tip and poke the white one out and replace it with the red one.

this is one option that could be the problem

the other option is the diaphragm washer.

disconnect the larger green nut and you will find a black diaphragm washer in it similar to this

I imagine yours could be worn with greenish gunk on it, remove this and replace it with a new diaphragm washer. normally cost about £1-2 in a plumbing wholesalers, you should get them in b&q also im sure. make sure the new washer is put in the same way that the old one comes out. the best way to remember it is theres like a smaller round part of the washer that sticks out a little it should be up against the white part that connects to the metal arm, once the arm comes up it pushes the white bit against the washer which inturn pushes against the tip which stops anymore water coming into the cistern.

put it all back together and test.

the only other thing it could be is a filter up the inside of the stand pipe. to remove this u need to disconnect the pipe/flexible going into the bottom of the ballcock and use a pair of pointy nosed pliers to pull it out.

I would try this above first tho.. let us know how you get on! you've 4 toilets to might as well try it yourself it will hardly matter if one toilet isn't working if you mess up :-)

I have this issue and same cistern, I'd already worked out the it must be this diaphragm washer, as everything works fine if I manually force it away from the inlet when cistern is empty. It appears to have gone solid and doesn't move away from the inlet when the ballcock releases it.

I checked in woodies tonight and they have nothing like it. Anyone know where I'd get one on stillorgan/Sandyford or along n11 from there?

Also while I'm at it, you can see from the pic in post 8 that these cisterns are 'noisy fill' the water just splashes out into the bowl. I want a piece of tube to make it flow more silently into the bowl. What would that be called?

ifah

copacetic wrote: »

I have this issue and same cistern, I'd already worked out the it must be this diaphragm washer, as everything works fine if I manually force it away from the inlet when cistern is empty. It appears to have gone solid and doesn't move away from the inlet when the ballcock releases it.

I checked in woodies tonight and they have nothing like it. Anyone know where I'd get one on stillorgan/Sandyford or along n11 from there?

Also while I'm at it, you can see from the pic in post 8 that these cisterns are 'noisy fill' the water just splashes out into the bowl. I want a piece of tube to make it flow more silently into the bowl. What would that be called?

Did you ever figure out where to buy these washers ? I need three of them - thanks.

sullzz

ifah wrote: »

Did you ever figure out where to buy these washers ? I need three of them - thanks.

Where are you living , if in dublin , smallmans on sallymount avenue in ranelagh do them , they are called aquasave ballvalve washers . hope this helps .

copacetic

ifah wrote: »

Did you ever figure out where to buy these washers ? I need three of them - thanks.

I got them in the plumbers merchant part of chadwicks in Sandyford, think they were 1.45 each, sorted out issue.

The old ones were gone solid nearly fully opened.

Sparkpea

copacetic wrote: »

Also while I'm at it, you can see from the pic in post 8 that these cisterns are 'noisy fill' the water just splashes out into the bowl. I want a piece of tube to make it flow more silently into the bowl. What would that be called?

you can't get silencers for those ballvalves, infact most where for brass ballvalves. You can get a quiet fill ballcock tho such as fluidmaster, geberit or torbeck

ifah

thanks all - got them in PH Ross at Hanlons Corner - 80c each

DM2008

Hi All,

Seeing as I started the thread, I might as well tell you how I got on. Replaced the washers (all the flexibility had gone out of them) and also changed the feed inlet from High pressure to Low pressure. What a difference!