Best College Course for Investments & Markets

higgz

Hi, I'm in 6th year looking at college courses and I'm very attracted to the idea of the world of investments and trading etc.

What college course would be the best for someone wanting to work in this area and are there courses that employers would rate highly?

Thanks.

DC09

higgz wrote: »

Hi, I'm in 6th year looking at college courses and I'm very attracted to the idea of the world of investments and trading etc.

What college course would be the best for someone wanting to work in this area and are there courses that employers would rate highly?

Thanks.

The best degrees for Banking are in the UK.
In the UK, a degree in Economics from LSE, Oxford, or Cambridge would be your 'dream' colleges.
UCL and Warwick are also considered good.

In Ireland, the degrees are less prestigious. Pure Economics or Economics and Maths from TCD or Economics and Finance from UCD would be the best Irish degrees IMO.
Finance in UCC* or Financial Mathematics & Economics in NUI Galway would also be fairly good.

*UCC Finance is the only one you can apply to if you didnt do HL Maths. For Oxford 2011, HL Maths is not essential but 'reccomended'. Considering its Oxford, you'd probably need HL Maths to be in with a chance.

Im kicking myself that I didnt try harder and do HL Maths:mad:...

higgz

DC09 wrote: »

The best degrees for Banking are in the UK.
In the UK, a degree in Economics from LSE, Oxford, or Cambridge would be your 'dream' colleges.
UCL and Warwick are also considered good.

In Ireland, the degrees are less prestigious. Pure Economics or Economics and Maths from TCD or Economics and Finance from UCD would be the best Irish degrees IMO.
Finance in UCC* or Financial Mathematics & Economics in NUI Galway would also be fairly good.

*UCC Finance is the only one you can apply to if you didnt do HL Maths. For Oxford 2011, HL Maths is not essential but 'reccomended'. Considering its Oxford, you'd probably need HL Maths to be in with a chance.

Im kicking myself that I didnt try harder and do HL Maths:mad:...

Thanks!

I'm in Dublin so either Trinity or UCD is what I'd go with. If people here had to pick from BESS economics, Economics and Maths or UCD Economics and Finance, what would they pick? I am doing HL Maths.

I've heard this about certain companies not even considering someone without a degree from a major UK university. However I assume if you do a postgraduate in one of those universities they'll treat you the same??

DC09

higgz wrote: »

Thanks!

I'm in Dublin so either Trinity or UCD is what I'd go with. If people here had to pick from BESS economics, Economics and Maths or UCD Economics and Finance, what would they pick? I am doing HL Maths.

I've heard this about certain companies not even considering someone without a degree from a major UK university. However I assume if you do a postgraduate in one of those universities they'll treat you the same??

If I had to chose, I'd probably do Economics & Maths at Trinity. In many instances London banks care about how prestigious your Uinversity is, and TCD is the best known Ireland has. Maths also helps as (for many positions, such as Trading) the more quant the better!
Yeah, if you got a postgrad from Oxbridge, LSE or London Business School, they probably would treat you the same.. Keep in mind you have to keep your GPA high to get in, internships go a long way also.

freeze4real

Look economics and maths has less use for investment markets. You need to do Financial Services & Investment Analysis in tallaght IT.

Jim2007

higgz wrote: »

Hi, I'm in 6th year looking at college courses and I'm very attracted to the idea of the world of investments and trading etc.

What college course would be the best for someone wanting to work in this area and are there courses that employers would rate highly?

Thanks.

The financial services world is a very big place and employs people with various educational backgrounds, but they all have one thing in common: good results!

Over the 20 years or so that I've worked in this industry I've met people from all walks of like - a guy with a PhD in Egyptology, Arts History Grads, Maths Grads, Accountants and what not... So a degree from any of the colleges you mentioned should be just fine, as long as you do the work and get good results.

One thing I would recommend is that you learn a language - a good knowledge of German for instance will open up opportunities in Frankfurt or Zurich (my home base) as well as the UK. Right now the London scene is changing, the main reason for being there was the lack of regulations, in the new world this is no longer the case and as a result many of the European players are moving out! Even a few of the UK firms are in the process of moving their hedge funds to Zurich... so times are changing and knowledge of a foreign language will give you an extra edge.

Good luck with that,

Jim

dunkamania

If your interested in trading, pure maths is the best option, probably. Ec & Fi will give you more latitude for other areas of finance, while still being sufficiently maths focused to be relevant for trading

pocketdooz

I would recommend Commerce in UCD - choose the Investments and Securities stream - and then go on to do the Masters in Finance in Smurfit - that'll be 4 years total.

Good luck - dont forget to enjoy your college years - hopefully we'll all have turned the country around for you by 2015 !!
.

freeze4real

pure maths is not neccessary.

having it thought will be an advantage.

one of my friends in college trades, and his maths is average.

he did ordinary level maths for the leaving and got a C2.

he's started trading when he was 16.

pure maths is not necessary.

Ive started trading and my maths is okay.

if you love pure maths and can grasp it then you're fine, if not don't bother as you'll be subjecting yourself to mental strain.

dunkamania

It really depends on the type of trading job you have.

While most traders would have a high level of mathematical ability, I would suggest that market makers and quants have very high mathematical abilities

higgz

Firstly thank you very much to everyone for replying. Some very helpful comments.

Jim2007 wrote: »

One thing I would recommend is that you learn a language

I have a passion for French so I'd hope to continue it in college as an elective. I'm sure there's plety of opportunities in Geneva and maybe Paris? Or elsewhere.

But is it worth becoming fluent in the language or is it better just to focus on more finance related areas??

Raskolnikov

The Columbia Business School in the States is regarded as one of the best investment educations you could get. Ben Graham taught there and their alumni is a who's who of investing (Buffett, Gabelli, Li Lu, etc.). If you're looking to become a trader though, you're simply best off buying a few books and opening a spread betting account with small money.

Quatre Mains

Hi OP
wish i had your sense when I was at school to be researching this stuff lol

work in the markets etc is separated into quantiative and non-quantitative. If you want to be a quant you will need to be very good at maths (others will be more specific as its years since i did it, but I'd say B3 or higher in your LC). You can do non-financial degrees such as Physics, maths - numerate degrees - and top them off with a finance masters afterwards if you prefer

If you're not that level in maths you could still look at a non-quant career in finance no probs, loads of options available to you.

One thing I'd say to you in picking a college dont just think of prestige (which IMHO is overrated) - try to pick somewhere you wont get a serious pain attending. ie 2 buses each way every day or huge commute. Best of luck

higgz

Johnnycabs wrote: »

One thing I'd say to you in picking a college dont just think of prestige (which IMHO is overrated) - try to pick somewhere you wont get a serious pain attending. ie 2 buses each way every day or huge commute. Best of luck

Bus Stop outside my door, straight to gates of Trinity or 2 buses to UCD, passing Trinity on the way . I think passing Trinity twice a day on my way to UCD would probably just get on my nerves. I'll have to weigh that up come CAO time.

mono627

Johnnycabs wrote: »

Hi OP
wish i had your sense when I was at school to be researching this stuff lol

work in the markets etc is separated into quantiative and non-quantitative. If you want to be a quant you will need to be very good at maths (others will be more specific as its years since i did it, but I'd say B3 or higher in your LC). You can do non-financial degrees such as Physics, maths - numerate degrees - and top them off with a finance masters afterwards if you prefer

If you're not that level in maths you could still look at a non-quant career in finance no probs, loads of options available to you.

One thing I'd say to you in picking a college dont just think of prestige (which IMHO is overrated) - try to pick somewhere you wont get a serious pain attending. ie 2 buses each way every day or huge commute. Best of luck

Disagree. Unfortunately, if you are looking to get into an investment bank you'll more than likely need a "prestigious" degree, no matter what area of the bank you want to get into. The exception being if you have a list of very good achievements or if you can consistently make money off the markets (and can prove it). You will also need to have fairly good grades (2:1 or above)

If it is trading in a prop house you are looking for then I'd recommend doing a numerate degree (doesn't particularly have to be prestigious), with some element of programming, preferably C++/C#. Even then, a degree alone with good grades won't get you the job.

In general, it is an extremely tough market to get into and you'll need to do something extra to stand out. Good luck.

higgz

mono627 wrote: »

If it is trading in a prop house you are looking for then I'd recommend doing a numerate degree (doesn't particularly have to be prestigious), with some element of programming, preferably C++/C#. Even then, a degree alone with good grades won't get you the job.

How relevant is programming to trading and investments?

What's the best way to get an education in maths, economics or finance AND programming too?

mono627

higgz wrote: »

How relevant is programming to trading and investments?

What's the best way to get an education in maths, economics or finance AND programming too?

Programming is increasingly relevant to trading, as most trades (not sure what %) are automated these days which means a computer programme decides what trades to make based on a set of rules designed by the trader. It's not as difficult as it sounds. Programming wouldn't be that relevant for normal investments.
The main difference between the two is generally that trading is short term and investing is long term.

To be perfectly honest I'm not sure if there is a single undergrad degree in Ireland that I know of that covers maths, economics/finance and programming so you may have to supplement it with a masters. In saying that, I know a few people who got into trading with none of the above backgrounds. It all depends who you are applying to. But certainly having some/all of the above backgrounds should give you a leg up.

Goodluck2me

higgz wrote: »

I've heard this about certain companies not even considering someone without a degree from a major UK university. However I assume if you do a postgraduate in one of those universities they'll treat you the same??

UCD and Trinity would fall into this bracket anyway so I wouldn't worry.

Jim2007 wrote: »

One thing I would recommend is that you learn a language - a good knowledge of German for instance will open up opportunities in Frankfurt or Zurich (my home base) as well as the UK.

This is really good advice, try to keep up whatever European languages you have taken in school once you are finished, as it really adds to your CV.

higgz wrote: »

Bus Stop outside my door, straight to gates of Trinity or 2 buses to UCD, passing Trinity on the way . I think passing Trinity twice a day on my way to UCD would probably just get on my nerves. I'll have to weigh that up come CAO time.

This should literally be the last thing you consider IMO, if you aren't prepared to take an extra 20 mins in the bus every day it would be hard to imagine you would be delighted doing 7.30-6 days like a lot of analysts do!
Choose the degree best suited to you, and one you like, think about jobs once you are there as your opinion of things will no doubt change as you get older.

higgz

mono627 wrote: »

To be perfectly honest I'm not sure if there is a single undergrad degree in Ireland that I know of that covers maths, economics/finance and programming

I think I just found one

http://www.scss.tcd.ie/undergraduate/bamsiss/

MSISS in Trinity
BA Management Science and Information Systems Studies

mono627

higgz wrote: »

I think I just found one

http://www.scss.tcd.ie/undergraduate/bamsiss/

MSISS in Trinity
BA Management Science and Information Systems Studies

Completely forgot about MSISS. Good course, know a few lads that did it and they highly recommend it.

higgz

Which of the two would be best for the investment world?

MSISS seems to tick more of the boxes however it seems to be over-statistical and light on economics, something that'd bug me. I'd much prefer to be studying economics. However the Maths in TSM looks scary :eek:

mono627

higgz wrote: »

Which of the two would be best for the investment world?

MSISS seems to tick more of the boxes however it seems to be over-statistical and light on economics, something that'd bug me. I'd much prefer to be studying economics. However the Maths in TSM looks scary :eek:

Depends what you want to do. If you want to do investment banking, I'd say economics and maths would be better. For trading, I'd say MSISS would be more appropriate. In saying that you would not be limited to a specific career doing either course and people have got into both investment banking and trading from various backgrounds.

I'd recommend picking a course that you think you'll really enjoy. 4 years is a long time to study something you dont like. All the best with it.

Reillyman

mono627 wrote: »

To be perfectly honest I'm not sure if there is a single undergrad degree in Ireland that I know of that covers maths, economics/finance and programming so you may have to supplement it with a masters.

BSc Financial Mathematics and Economics in NUI, Galway(GY309)

Doing it at the moment, covers all of the above, including programming(unfortunately), you'll enjoy it if you like maths and can cope with a high concentration of it.

Don't forget one of the best ways to get into investment banking etc is internships, I've applied for a few this summer even though I'm only in 1st year. Remember that CV's, applications, interviews, GPA's, motivation and ambition are more important than specific courses or universities. Every company I've looked at say they consider "all degree disciplines" for internships.

Fince

higgz wrote: »

How relevant is programming to trading and investments?

What's the best way to get an education in maths, economics or finance AND programming too?

Hi OP, just thought i'd throw in my 2 cents.

I know I'll get shot down here about it not being prestigious enough but if you had to describe the Actuarial Maths degree in DCU in 4 words it would be maths, economics, finance and programming. (I'm currently in 2nd yr of it)

A year long module of C++ in first yr and a semester long module of C++ in second yr. Economics for all of first yr. Main emphasis on maths in first and second yr but more focused on finance/actuarial science in third and fourth yr.

you don't have to go on and do the Actuarial exams after (most don't). Its just a good maths finance course with programming and economics along the way.

Similar course in UCD but i couldn't tell you any details.

DCU is known for their foreign language teaching as well if you wanted to pursue that.

Browney7

Yeah Actuarial and Financial in UCD would be fairly good aswell. In fourth year at the moment myself.

Programming in first year and you can do electives in C, Java languages if you are motivated enough. Economics in first and second year. Finance in 2nd third and 4th year. Actuarial Maths in second and fourth year (Valuing bonds options etc and immunisation are covered here). Probability and statistical subjects every year aswell if you were good at those.

Would recommend trying to get an internship somewhere aswell. Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs came into to UCD earlier in the year for a presentation and pitching to students what they expected. PM me if you want further details.

Best of luck

neil.p.b

higgz wrote: »

Which of the two would be best for the investment world?

MSISS seems to tick more of the boxes however it seems to be over-statistical and light on economics, something that'd bug me. I'd much prefer to be studying economics. However the Maths in TSM looks scary :eek:

Hey Higgz. I'm in 4th year MSISS. First thing to say is it is NOT a business type degree. It is very very mathsy, whether it's direct maths courses, statistics, probability, MLA, forecasting. The course is hard. 1st year entries to 4th year graduates - one of the highest failure/drop-out rates in any level 8 courses in Ireland.

Having said that i like it and really glad i chose over commerce and i'm not someone who overly enjoys maths. But it does cover everything you mentioned earlier. You learn how to program, in 1st and 2 years you'll do c++/java. You'll have the option to continue to do it in 3rd and 4th year as an elective. In 3rd and 4th year you do continue to write code, but in the background for applications such as VB and in SQL. In 1st and 2nd year you also do Economics, Financial Accounting and Management. Again you can choose to continue 1/2 of these in3rd/4th year as an elective. As another poster said if you want to be an "investor" there'd be better courses out there. If you want to be a trader this is probably your best bet as it touches on everything in the first 2 years and gives you the option to focus in on what you like in 3rd and 4th. Having said that if you want to be a trader a degree in psychology would probably be best!