are women mores suited to teaching than men?

Fuinseog

it would appear to me, especially in the current climate than women are more suitable teachers than men.

they will put up with more nonsense and have an inbuilt mothering instinct.

any thoughts on the matter?

TheDriver

I can't believe someone still thinks this, are you honestly being serious?

seithon

No, absolutely not.
Female teachers are in no way "naturally" better then male teachers.

Fuinseog

TheDriver wrote: »

I can't believe someone still thinks this, are you honestly being serious?

obviously. why wouldn't I be?

Fuinseog

seithon wrote: »

No, absolutely not.
Female teachers are in no way "naturally" better then male teachers.

a lot of students need mothering. their own parents have no time for them. a female teacher can give a hug and get away with it. not so with a male teacher.

in my experience women are likely to tolerate an abusive pupil or parent than men.

men will shun primary and montessori for fear of being labelled gay.

at secondary there appear to be very few male language teachers and they tend to be found in the more 'important' subjects such as maths, science and business.

slarkin123

I think its down to the individual. Our primary school has a male teacher who all the kids and parents want. Then we have another who i'm dreading my kids getting. He does nothing but shout. I think there are way more female teachers so people tend to think its more suited for women.

rainbowtrout

Fuinseog wrote: »

a lot of students need mothering. their own parents have no time for them. a female teacher can give a hug and get away with it. not so with a male teacher.

in my experience women are likely to tolerate an abusive pupil or parent than men.

men will shun primary and montessori for fear of being labelled gay.

at secondary there appear to be very few male language teachers and they tend to be found in the more 'important' subjects such as maths, science and business.

A lot of students need parenting. Not just mothering. A lot of students need to be taught manners.

I'm a female teacher and I can assure you that I do not hug any students. Nor do any of my colleagues.

I do not tolerate abusive pupils or parents, nor do any of my colleagues, nor should we be expected to tolerate them.

True, there aren't many men teaching foreign languages but equally there aren't many women teaching woodwork, metalwork or technical drawing.

In the science department in my school there is only one male teacher (the deputy principal so he has few classes) all of the remaining science teachers are female. We have only one male maths teacher and no male business teachers.

This is 2010 not 1910.

Scuid Mhór

seithon wrote: »

No, absolutely not.
Female teachers are in no way "naturally" better then male teachers.

he said if they were more 'suited' to the job, not if they were naturally better. looking through my education system; the majority of teachers have been women - nothing wrong with that, but if the statistics point towards it, his statement has to have some grain of truth to it.

dambarude

Fuinseog wrote: »

men will shun primary and montessori for fear of being labelled gay.

Eh, what?!

I know there are problems getting males into primary teaching, but I would never have thought that this would be the reason. That's a bit ridiculous tbh.

Going by your post all men teachers are emotionless rocks who impose rules and sanctions and don't give a toss about the students they teach, and all women are helpful mothers who hug their students and let them run riot for fear of hurting their feelings. I don't think so.

SugarHigh

I think the reason for there being so many female teachers is simply because more women do arts subjects and are left with little choice. It's not some inherent calling.:D

SugarHigh

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

he said if they were more 'suited' to the job, not if they were naturally better. looking through my education system; the majority of teachers have been women - nothing wrong with that, but if the statistics point towards it, his statement has to have some grain of truth to it.

More men do third level maths so does that mean men are better at maths?

Scuid Mhór

SugarHigh wrote: »

More men do third level maths so does that mean men are better at maths?

the comprehension skills in this thread are off the chart.

suited to a particular career =/= better at that particular career. from my experience, more women want to do primary teaching. a lot of my friends who are girls who are trying to figure out what they want to do are leaning the direction of primary/secondary school teaching. i don't think i've heard from any of my friends who are boys that they want to do primary/secondary teaching. does that mean that women are naturally better at it than men? no, of course it doesn't. same thing applies to the misguided question you asked me.

rainbowtrout

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

he said if they were more 'suited' to the job, not if they were naturally better. looking through my education system; the majority of teachers have been women - nothing wrong with that, but if the statistics point towards it, his statement has to have some grain of truth to it.

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

the comprehension skills in this thread are off the chart.

suited to a particular career =/= better at that particular career. from my experience, more women want to do primary teaching. a lot of my friends who are girls who are trying to figure out what they want to do are leaning the direction of primary/secondary school teaching. i don't think i've heard from any of my friends who are boys that they want to do primary/secondary teaching. does that mean that women are naturally better at it than men? no, of course it doesn't. same thing applies to the misguided question you asked me.

But what you said above (highlighted) is essentially backing up that claim. Have a look at the subjects on offer in single sex schools and see if that influences the courses chosen by students at third level. I know the girls school I attended didn't offer any practical subjects so it was never really an option for me to go into that area. Similarly the all boys school my brother didn't offer the likes of Art or Music. History and Geography was as good as it got in terms of Arts subjects.

ytareh

no (in small letters for fear of being accused of shouting!)(lack of positive male role models is already affecting society and by God it will bite us in the a55 in the next decade...

evolving_doors

Fuinseog wrote: »

it would appear to me, especially in the current climate than women are more suitable teachers than men.

they will put up with more nonsense and have an inbuilt mothering instinct.

any thoughts on the matter?

If you drew a pie chart what percentage would the men v's women be in terms of suitability?

Also maybe you could do a bar chart with the "amount of nonsense men would put up with" against "the amount of nonsense women would put up with".

Maybe compare your results of the "current climate" with your data from " the past climate" (I'm presuming you mean 1997-2006: the boom years!!)



D-
You must support statements with facts in your writing Ms fuinseog

P.S. I'd like you to write a 4 page essay on the "inbuilt mothering instinct v's the inbuilt fathering instinct" and have it posted by next monday.. kind of a compare and contrast thing..

ytareh

In my large SECONDARY school there are almost exactly two thirds female teachers to one third male ...I was surprised and expected it to be far closer to 50/50

gaeilgegrinds1

Very much depends on the person, sure some women are not very motherly! Also, students may just as easily need fatherly figures too. I do not agree in the slightest!

SugarHigh

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

the comprehension skills in this thread are off the chart.

suited to a particular career =/= better at that particular career. from my experience, more women want to do primary teaching. a lot of my friends who are girls who are trying to figure out what they want to do are leaning the direction of primary/secondary school teaching. i don't think i've heard from any of my friends who are boys that they want to do primary/secondary teaching. does that mean that women are naturally better at it than men? no, of course it doesn't. same thing applies to the misguided question you asked me.

A butter knife is more suitable than a chainsaw to butter bread therefore a butter knife is better at buttering bread than a chainsaw. Just because more women go into teaching that doesn't make them more suitable. Going into teaching is a lot of the time more to do with a lack of options after doing arts which more women do.

roxychix

I myself am a female teacher and i am as far away from motherly as you can get and the students seem to know it. I see some of the other women teachers in my school having some of the boys coming up complaining about feeling unwell etc. yet that never happens to me so I think it really depends on the person. I do not tolerate any sort of crap and have been told by my colleagues both male and female that I am very strict for young female teacher which can sometimes annoy me:mad: but I realize thats its just my style of teaching and the boys learn from me which is my aim. I think its all down to your individual teaching style and not your sex.

Fuinseog

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

the comprehension skills in this thread are off the chart.

suited to a particular career =/= better at that particular career. from my experience, more women want to do primary teaching. a lot of my friends who are girls who are trying to figure out what they want to do are leaning the direction of primary/secondary school teaching. i don't think i've heard from any of my friends who are boys that they want to do primary/secondary teaching. does that mean that women are naturally better at it than men? no, of course it doesn't. same thing applies to the misguided question you asked me.

but why don't the boys want to be primary school teachers? do they fear that they will not be taken seriously?

Fuinseog

[


D-
You must support statements with facts in your writing Ms fuinseog

g..[/QUOTE]


ah no I don't. I never said that I was making a factual argument. I was merely making observations based on experience and what have read and heard and am hoping for clarity and further information.

seachto7

When did European Studies (1995 - 1999), I was the only guy who chose Gaeilge out of the course.
I am hoping to apply for the PGDE to hopefully teach Gaeilge and French. I always loved languages.
Is it really the case where more language teachers are women?

Fuinseog

seachto7 wrote: »

When did European Studies (1995 - 1999), I was the only guy who chose Gaeilge out of the course.
I am hoping to apply for the PGDE to hopefully teach Gaeilge and French. I always loved languages.
Is it really the case where more language teachers are women?

I did languages at college and more than 80% were female.

dkin

ytareh wrote: »

no (in small letters for fear of being accused of shouting!)(lack of positive male role models is already affecting society and by God it will bite us in the a55 in the next decade...

I've given this a bit of thought recently. All the teachers at my primary school were female as a male I think this definitely had a negative impact. The role teachers play at that age is massive and we used to rely on the school caretaker to bring us into a nearby field to organise soccer matches and other schools to play against. It's important to have balance.

seachto7

Fuinseog wrote: »

I did languages at college and more than 80% were female.

ummm........that's good news for me.........

.............get's coat........:o:o

holystungun9

Fuinseog wrote: »

a lot of students need mothering. their own parents have no time for them. a female teacher can give a hug and get away with it. not so with a male teacher.

in my experience women are likely to tolerate an abusive pupil or parent than men.

men will shun primary and montessori for fear of being labelled gay.

at secondary there appear to be very few male language teachers and they tend to be found in the more 'important' subjects such as maths, science and business.

I guess you are going on your life experience but clearly do not have much. As a matter of interest, the tolerating of an abusive pupil /parent thing. How much abuse do you recommend tolerating? Shun is also a pretty strong word, is that really what you meant to say.......I could go on but I'm not sure there is any point.

cassi

I would say it definetly depends on the person. Some of my best and worst teachers were men. Certainly wouldn't call my female teachers motherly at all but perhaps easier to approach when having problems.

Taltos

I am from a family of teachers.
Grandmother - teacher.
Father - primary school teacher and principal.
Sister - 2ndry school teacher - primarily languages.

As you can imagine I too was tempted to enter this line of work and for all it has going for it there were too much negatives.
> insufficient recognition for abilities, this years of service reward process is archaic.
> too many bad experiences with teachers in 2ndry school - both male and female. Actually preferred the male teachers as all but one of the female teachers were either considered too weak to control the class or too open to being controlled directly by appealing to their "mothering" instincts.
> really disliked the influence of the church in the schools.

In terms of it being more acceptable for a female teacher to hug a child - I am glad no-one ever tried it with me. This is NOT acceptable behaviour and I would even then have reported said teacher.

I do regret sometimes not choosing this life, but now, 20 yrs later it really is too late to think about going back.

Trying to remember the good from the bad
Good:
Primary school - 1 female; 2 male
Secondary school - 2 female (scared everyone); 2 male (Tech & Science)

Bad:
Primary school - 1 female (too aggressive and clearly disliked children); 1 male (almost breaking a childs arm and punching a parent in front of the class was not good).
Secondary - 2 females (highly respected teacher but who could not teach an ape to peel a banana...); 1 male (flirted outrageously with 1 female student, could not take a hint - language teacher).

Indifferent:
Primary: none I can class in this bracket.
Secondary: 1 - religion teacher (studies involved drawing, what a waste of time of 40 minutes???)

Maybe the profession needs to take a step back and understand better why people no longer make the choice or why it seems to attract some people that would be better placed in jobs not dealing with people. A better separation from religious groups would also be good along with steps to better prepare the kids for adult life instead of ramming memory exercises down their throats.

Anyway - best of luck with your inquiry. Still not sure you are serious, or if you are I really hope you are not a teacher for any of my nephews / neices, try hugging them and you may get the same response you would from me.

evolving_doors

Fuinseog wrote: »

[


D-
You must support statements with facts in your writing Ms fuinseog

g..

ah no I don't. I never said that I was making a factual argument. I was merely making observations based on experience and what have read and heard and am hoping for clarity and further information.[/QUOTE]

Aye Fuinseog that stats request was all a bit of tongue in cheek.. but.. what is the difference between a male and a female teacher anyway...

would it be any different if you compared say ..Irish teachers to PE teachers.. i reckon PE teachers are wayyyyy more "mothering" than Irish teachers? (even the male ones)

Morrigin

Fuinseog wrote: »

a female teacher can give a hug and get away with it. not so with a male teacher.

As a teacher and a youth worker can I just advise that under Child Protection Guidelines (which are in place for the adult's benefit too!) you are NOT allowed to hug a minor whom you are responsible for in a professional capacity. In fact you are not allowed to so much as pat a child on the back.

Anyway I teach in a secondary school and I have a zero tolerance policy for bad behaviour - you're not doing a disruptive student any favours by letting him think that it's an acceptable way to behave.

There's no difference in male or female teachers - all it comes down to is that some people have the right personality and ability for the job and some don't.

doc_17

I think it would be better to have more males in teaching. Not saying they are better/worse but balance wouldn't harm things!

Fuinseog

Morrigin wrote: »

As a teacher and a youth worker can I just advise that under Child Protection Guidelines (which are in place for the adult's benefit too!) you are NOT allowed to hug a minor whom you are responsible for in a professional capacity. In fact you are not allowed to so much as pat a child on the back.

Anyway I teach in a secondary school and I have a zero tolerance policy for bad behaviour - you're not doing a disruptive student any favours by letting him think that it's an acceptable way to behave.

There's no difference in male or female teachers - all it comes down to is that some people have the right personality and ability for the job and some don't.

thats like saying women and men are the same. they are not. women will view horseplay very differently to men.

unfortunately most schools do not have a zero tolerance on disruptive behaviour especially if child is suffering from ADD or what not. their disorder, whether real or encouraged gives them a licence to disrupt. why is it that more boys seem to be ADHD or ADD?

gnikdivad

Fuinseog wrote: »

men will shun primary and montessori for fear of being labelled gay.

.

I am an Irish male Montessori teacher and I have never once thought that anyone would label me as 'gay' because of it!

Feeona

I think men are more suited to teaching at times than women are, and vice versa. Male teachers are well able to sort out scuffles on yard in a calmer way, because they understand that scuffles aren't that big a deal. A female teacher would be more likely to lose it if she sees a scuffle breaking out, because she would've been less likely to take part in scuffles when she was younger. Male teachers voices also lend themselves well to the job, as they're easily heard.

Female teachers notice the small details, and are more likely to have a visually attractive room for the children. We bring the softer side, which is important, but sometimes I feel children are being molly coddled far too much these days!

One other huge difference I also notice between male and female teachers-male teachers hardly ever use laminators, whereas female teachers use them to such an extent, they've become part of our DNA :pac:

Prof252

I'm a male teacher in an all-girls school. Although I didn't believe it when I began strong opinions and comments are constantly reinforced that the girls view me differently, expect a different teaching style from me, react differently to me and are used to another approach to discipline from me. The more I hear, witness and contemplate this the more I see there's a lot of reason in it.

My female colleagues maintain that a male influence and presence is vital in a all female school. At lease once a year I get a student telling me the same.

I really appreciate this affirmation that male teachers have a fundamental role to play in the classroom; particularly in the core subject areas, my only wish is to have more male colleagues...

Nolanger

84% of primary-school teachers are now women. Bet if was 16% women there would be major changes made to correct this imbalance?

byhookorbycrook

Nolanger wrote: »

84% of primary-school teachers are now women. Bet if was 16% women there would be major changes made to correct this imbalance?

What are the stats on the no. of men who are principals?How would you sort these "imbalances?"

An Bradán Feasa

Is there even a need to sort the imbalances? Not every job can have 50/50 representation!

rainbowtrout

An Bradán Feasa wrote: »

Is there even a need to sort the imbalances? Not every job can have 50/50 representation!

Well you are right, not every job can have equal representation, but at the same time I think it's healthy for students to be taught by both men and women. It doesn't matter so much in other jobs where you are dealing with adults most of the time if it is a job where contact with the public is involved, but it is good for students to have a variety of role models and teachers are role models for students one way or another so it's good for them to be exposed to both males and females.

Also with so many single parent families in the country, with the majority of them headed by women, sometimes students don't have any major male influence in their lives so to have a male teacher at some point in their education is probably a good thing although they may not realise it at the time. Many students from such families do have other male role models - uncles, grandparents etc but there are quite a number who don't.

Nolanger

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

What are the stats on the no. of men who are principals?How would you sort these "imbalances?"

Here's what I'd do: reduce the number of women teachers as this is seriously damaging the Irish education system. They only shout 'equality' when it's for the higher-paid jobs. The Leaving Cert is dumbed down too much now because of the feminisation of the schooling system. Teaching standards have dropped and kids are leaving school unprepared for college or life.

Toto Wolfcastle

Nolanger banned for flaming and posting sweeping statements having been previously banned for the same thing. Please do not respond to Nolanger's post.

partyguinness

From 1983 to 1996 I more female teachers like most people and to be honest I don't remember them as being much good.

In primary:

The 3 female teachers were rubbish and spent most of the time talking to each other

1st (had for 2years) was old fashioned and not even qualified and had even taught my father. Every Monday she would grill everyone on what mass they had been to. Dead a few years.

2nd (had for 2 years) teacher was a tryant. My only memories are of saying prayers several times a day and again long absences from the classroom.

3rd teacher was an alcoholic adulterous slut and rarely in...amazingly she is still at the school and is banned from the local pubs and this is a small ruarl village!!!

The male teachers were excellant and instilled many interests that I still have today. In fact, they were wasted in teaching and introduced many extra activities and encouraged us critically. If I was a teacher I would copy their style.

The male teachers cared whereas the females ones could not have cared less.

Secondary no difference, again I had another alcoholic maths teacher who was sent home on more than one occasion for being drunk (of course she still has a job and is still there) and the other 2 females were on permanent maternity leave.

Of course that was just my experiences.

Bottom line, the lack of male teachers is a big worry especially in primary.

spurious

The three worst teachers I had in my time at school were all men. I was unlucky.

Male teachers are no better or worse than female teachers.
There are 'useless teachers' and 'innovative teachers' in both groups.

There should be more men in teaching to balance up the numbers and also to help in some way address the lack of positive male role models many boys have.

km79

Given the different demands of primary and post primary schools I honestly feel women are better primary teachers than men and vice versatile for post primary (with the exception of certain subjects such as SPHE )

partyguinness

spurious wrote: »

The three worst teachers I had in my time at school were all men. I was unlucky.

Male teachers are no better or worse than female teachers.
There are 'useless teachers' and 'innovative teachers' in both groups.

There should be more men in teaching to balance up the numbers and also to help in some way address the lack of positive male role models many boys have.

A friend of mine who is a teacher has mentioned to me about some deprived city areas where some schools have no male teachers and consequently some young males have absolutely no male figures in their live (talking about single mother families who prob live with their own mothers as well).

Of course that is not the teachers fault but I think it is an area of genuine concern even among teachers themselves.

As for women being better teachers, I am afraid that is just casual sexism.

evolving_doors

No difference between men and women, this is Ireland so the main objective is to get students through the exam, I really dont think oestrogen or testosterone makes you a better or worse teacher,,
My instinct wants to have a bit more of a balance in the system though , but the devil would be in the doing... do we positively discriminate in interviews or on teacher training course applications..

if we go this route then why don't we positively discriminate for people with disabilities, people from deprived areas, people from a different nationality, people from different age groups..
I know I would like to think that I got a job on merit rather than on the grounds of my gender etc..

I think that as time moves on the balance will slowly (albeit painfully) be redressed, the best person for the job gets the job (depending - as always - on who you know of course)..