How to improve US economy - Prepare for War

pablo_escobar

A washington post moron has suggested preparation for attacking Iran with expensive weaponry will improve the US economy.

The reasoning is that destroying countries and killing people is a good business.

Here is where Obama is likely to prevail. With strong Republican support in Congress for challenging Iran's ambition to become a nuclear power, he can spend much of 2011 and 2012 orchestrating a showdown with the mullahs. This will help him politically because the opposition party will be urging him on. And as tensions rise and we accelerate preparations for war, the economy will improve.

read here

So now republicans have control of the house, the only way for Obama to get re-elected is drum up support for starting another war in some foreign country based on the same lies they used to invade Iraq.

I have to wonder about those americans with such an appetite for war..

Have they ever been in a war personally? Ever lost a family member? Ever witnessed the insanity of it all with their own eyes?

Or do these people just sit comfortably in their recliner at home watching it on TV like it's some hollywood film?

Who are supporters for war? The exact same morons who will not fight it nor see any of their own family fight it...most likely the same people who will benefit greatly from it financially.

Attacking Iran, (which may sound good to americans with the IQ of a chimpanzee), will be disastrous for the global economy.

Oil would certainly increase in price and since everything else depends on it being cheap, countries would stop functioning.

Who exactly will benefit from attacking Iran?

Overheal

Theres a lot of military industry in the US but thats beside the point - the WaPo editorial is based on a flawed premise that it would help Obama politically. It wouldn't. It would make him look heavily influenced by the Opposition party. And to war, when the debt is still climbing and the president has been working to get us out of two foreign wars as it is? Fat chance.

southsiderosie

That article is insane, for multiple reasons.

First, the US is broke, and cannot afford the wars we do have.

Second, I disagree with Broder's notion that the country will rally around the President. The left will be outraged, and the right will say the opposite of whatever Obama says.

Third, even if the country could afford it, and would back the president, I don't think it would pull the country out of recession. Steel mills and auto plants can achieve higher rates of output with far fewer people today than they could in the 1930s. A lot of our production capacity has been outsourced. And technology plays a much bigger role in modern warfare than it did in the past.

Finally, I can't believe this is what the Washington press corps has been reduced to. I would not have expected this kind of article from David Broder, but I guess times have changed since I left DC ten years ago.

Bjorn Bored.

Attack Iran?


All I can think of if that happens is the REM song....


"Its the end of the world as we know it"


Bloody stupid war mongering Americans.:mad: Dont they realise that Iran are close if not completely nuked up? Bye bye Israel for a start, WW3 would be an inevitability.

Holybejaysus

Welcome to the Military Industrial Complex that Eishenhower warned about in his farewell address-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

It's usually the big five that profit from this-The United States, China, Russia, the United Kingdom, and France. Who also happen to be the five permanent members of the UN security Council.

However, sometimes it's not just about making a buck, and military action really is a necessary evil. So in this case I would support a decapitating strike on Iran. Nuclear weapons should be reduced in the world, not added to. Especially in the Middle East.

PeakOutput

it probably would drastically improve your economy in the short term

it would also probably damage your international relations even further, run you debt up even more and destroy obamas reputation

Clawdeeus

PeakOutput wrote: »

it probably would drastically improve your economy in the short term

it would also probably damage your international relations even further, run you debt up even more and destroy obamas reputation

Actually, it is a myth that war is good for the economy at all; it APPEARS to help with some stuff (like unemployment) if a complete mobilisation of a country is called for (it wouldnt with Iran). This is a mirage; the people are emplyed to persecute the war, it is not actual growth. Their is also a stimulative effect if the government spends enormous amounts of money on the war.

Rebuilding and occupation are an enormous drain on the economy, and this is basically all that would be getting done in Iran (all the whilst people dieing). The military campaign (which is the part which, in theory, produces a stimulus effect) would be over within months if not weeks with Iran.

Just google it, other people are far better at explaining it than me.

What a fantastic journalist, did not even take the time to check the basic premise of his article.

pablo_escobar

What a fantastic journalist, did not even take the time to check the basic premise of his article.

The US would need foreign nations to sponser a war against Iran.

After G20, that will be impossible.

Clawdeeus

pablo_escobar wrote: »

The US would need foreign nations to sponser a war against Iran.

After G20, that will be impossible.

Not particularly. Any powerful nation has routinely ignored international opinion or law when it benefited them to do so.

Highly Salami

pablo_escobar wrote: »

The US would need foreign nations to sponser a war against Iran.

After G20, that will be impossible.

Why does G20 make a difference?

Laois_Man

pablo_escobar wrote: »

starting another war in some foreign country based on the same lies they used to invade Iraq.

So just to clairfy....you DON'T believe Iran has WMDs and you DON'T believe Iran is dangerous and you DO believe that suggestions of such is merely more US orchestrated hysteria?

pablo_escobar

Clawdeeus wrote: »

Not particularly. Any powerful nation has routinely ignored international opinion or law when it benefited them to do so.

In the past, yes, that's true.
But the problem US faces now is where to get enough money to fund a war with Iran.

BRIC nations, which Iran is part of have all agreed on currency swaps in the last couple of months which is considered a signal some of the world's biggest economies are unhappy with US dollar as reserve currency.

To keep using the dollar as currency for trade is simply fueling perpetual wars in Iraq, Aghanistan and running US military bases all over the world.

And that's only the first problem US has.

Unless the US fixes it's economy, their empire will simply fade into the background over the next 15 years.

pablo_escobar

Highly Salami wrote: »

Why does G20 make a difference?

Who do you think is funding the US economy and it's wars?
It isn't the US itself.

Asian countries have been funding them from buying US bonds.

The US economy is destroyed and the only thing that has kept it ticking over this long was the asian nations buying US debt.

You might ask "why buy if they didn't want it"

The truth is, asian countries and in particular China were unable to buy anything other than bonds or equities from the US but all this has done is fuel the Iraq, Afghanistan and potential war with Iran.

So when nobody wants US debt anymore, China is made a scapegoat and we see the FED buying it back instead.

Bear in mind the US will never repay the debt asian nations buy, so what is the point?

US will need to bring back manufacturing jobs to it's country, jobs that create exports and inflow of capital.

If it doesn't, it's future is doomed.

pablo_escobar

Laois_Man wrote: »

So just to clairfy....you DON'T believe Iran has WMDs and you DON'T believe Iran is dangerous and you DO believe that suggestions of such is merely more US orchestrated hysteria?

This is not a war of conflicting ideologies.
The US is not interested in Iran because of the perceived threat against Israel.

The US is interested in Iran because it has a lot of energy (gas,oil) and the US are one of the biggest consumers of this energy.

You think this is about ideology? ha..no sir.

The problem though is that China,Russia,India and other major countries are also interested in Iran for the same reason, Energy.

Black Swan

pablo_escobar wrote: »

The reasoning is that destroying countries and killing people is a good business.

The United States is wasting over 10 billion dollars a month on two wars, that are not contributing to the national recovery from recession; rather to a federal deficit that is out of control, and partly responsible for the great recession they are now experiencing.

Mr.Micro

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

The United States is wasting over 10 billion dollars a month on two wars, that are not contributing to the national recovery from recession; rather to a federal deficit that is out of control, and partly responsible for the great recession they are now experiencing.

Simple solution is the US can stop its 2 wars anytime and save billions. Its the long term that the US is looking at and its imperialist ambitions.

Black Swan

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Simple solution is the US can stop its 2 wars anytime and save billions. Its the long term that the US is looking at and its imperialist ambitions.

The US acquired the Philippine Islands as a result of the 1898 Spanish-American War. If they were imperialist, why did they allow the Philippines to become independent in 1946?

Mr.Micro

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

The US acquired the Philippine Islands as a result of the 1898 Spanish-American War. If they were imperialist, why did they allow the Philippines to become independent in 1946?

That was then and this now and no doubt the US has bases there still?

The US is not so altruistic that it pays billions to wage wars just so as to be the good guy or believers in democracy. There has to be something in it for the US, in this case expansion of its influence or control of Oil, gas or minerals, even a strategic base(s), whatever. It is certainly not wasting tax dollars in the cause of humanity on other countries.

Overheal

Of course. King Dollar. He's discovered the secret: quick kill him!

I don't think there is any big secret that the US wants to remain influential in the world sphere. Yes, bases here, bases there; free up that market; choke that one; a carrier group off that coast; etc.

The problem with the British Empire and the Roman Empires was totalitarian control. The US doesn't want to govern these countries, or tell Phillipinos they can't abort foetuses or dictate to the Iraqis what rights for women they enact. Those type of imperial accusations about the US are a joke.

There are few markets that aren't aligned to America's interests. Despite cool relations with China you're still talking about two co-dependent economies. And yes, Israel has been a very good deal for the US, even if it has been bad for image, politics, and some people's lives. But getting back to Iran, the US isn't going to take chances with things like nuclear war, which is in nobody's best interests. Any action against Iran won't be supported on economic grounds, but the grounds that nobody particularly wants to see the world burn. And at that, we aren't going to rush in the way we went into Iraq.

Furthermore the truth in Iraq is we fcuked up and we owe it to those people to make sure they aren't overrun by the next bordering country that wants so swallow them up whenever we leave. And the same for Afghanistan really. It's not really just all "Oh they don't have a 2-party system, lets go in there and fcuk them up because they govern on linux", it's got a lot to do with correcting an environment where terrorists are allowed to thrive and plot international attacks. If at the end of it, we have Afghanistan and Iraq in good trade relations and they want to export their vast mineral and gas wealth, then all the better. But don't forget the reason the Taliban hates us in the first place is because we drove out the Russians and then disappeared, left the Afghans to clean up the mess; when we should have, in hindsight, stayed to help them re-establish at least a pre-war status.

pablo_escobar

But don't forget the reason the Taliban hates us in the first place is because we drove out the Russians and then disappeared, left the Afghans to clean up the mess; when we should have, in hindsight, stayed to help them re-establish at least a pre-war status.

The taliban were established after the Soviets withdrew from afghanistan.

Soviet occupation was the result of US financial, logistical and military support to militant terrorist groups opposed to the pro-communist regime in kabul

This support was covertly under the direction of Carter administration security advisors and later directed by Carter himself.

So, the Soviets were drawn into a war as the result of US supporting terrorist groups.

We saw the same thing in Nicaragua with support of contras by Reagan and it's quite possible Jundallah are being sponsered to carry out attacks in Iran today.

People tend to believe conflicts are because of different ideologies but the only wars I see in the world today are over money.

This silly notion that US are protecting Isreal from big bad Iran or protecting freedom and democracy is the ultimate insult to any intelligent person.

Iran are basically surrounded by a war machine that is willing to sacrafice the future of it's people in order to steal for the few.

And that's all this "war on terror" is really all about...making money.

Overheal

pablo_escobar wrote: »

This silly notion that US are protecting Isreal from big bad Iran or protecting freedom and democracy is the ultimate insult to any intelligent person.

I never said that.

pablo_escobar

I'm not saying you did, but that's what I'm led to believe when I watch most western news reports.

Out of all the crimes taking place throughout the world each and everyday, most people in western world seem fixated with just 1 or 2 "regimes"

It's not a coincidence that these "regimes" are in countries that have huge amounts of raw materials (which our corporations want) and that they're staunchly opposed to foreign interference in domestic affairs.

These "regimes" want to be treated as a sovereign state, capable of handling it's own political and economic affairs, but we're led to believe they can't do that without without our "help"

Most people exposed to biased western media coverage are unable to express an objective opinion about 1 of these "regimes" because all the information they have is what the media have supplied them with.

People are brainwashed into believing we stand on the moral highground. We somehow have the right to dictate to the world the value of human rights and democracy while at the same time violating the rights of our own citizens and those in countries we've invaded illegally.

Although OT, take for example the recent G20 meetings where the US are demanding countries like China allow their currency to be speculated upon by wallstreet terrorists.

China runs a trade surplus, US runs a trade deficit...

Are the media even discussing the amount of money spent on US military operations abroad? nope.

Are they discussing all the corruption in the banking system? arresting and jailing those responsible? nope.

Instead, the corrupt bankers of wallstreet argue the chinese manipulate their currency and are uncompetitive with the only solution being that the Federal Reserve devalue the US dollar...

This does nothing but give bankers more money to invest abroad with even more dire consequences for the average american people.

"we're not the problem, you are" mentality of the bankers is somewhat similar to the mentality of foreign policy makers in DC.

The US bankers are essentially playing a game of casino using US taxpayers money... then they blame China for causing all the problems...it's hard to believe.

But there's similar set of circumstances in the middle east where the US military are enforcing an occupation of land for strategic purposes.

I'm just sick of all the hypocrisy and lies the media pump out on a daily basis.

It would offer some hope to report the truth once in a while but that's too much to ask.

Laois_Man

pablo_escobar wrote: »

This is not a war of conflicting ideologies.
The US is not interested in Iran because of the perceived threat against Israel.

The US is interested in Iran because it has a lot of energy (gas,oil) and the US are one of the biggest consumers of this energy.

You think this is about ideology? ha..no sir.

The problem though is that China,Russia,India and other major countries are also interested in Iran for the same reason, Energy.

Bravo. Now try answering the question!

Black Swan

Mr.Micro wrote: »

It is certainly not wasting tax dollars in the cause of humanity on other countries.

USAID gives billions each year; see link: http://www.usaid.gov/policy/budget/money/

There are also thousands of American volunteers in the Peace Corp with a budget of $400 million; see link:
http://www.peacecorps.gov/index.cfm?shell=resources.media.press.view&news_id=1629

pablo_escobar

Laois_Man wrote: »

Bravo. Now try answering the question!

You're one of these people who believe the US government are spending trillions of dollars on invasions into Afghanistan, Iraq and now Pakistan with the aim of protecting freedom and democracy?

I can't argue with that..

Black Swan

Overheal wrote: »

But don't forget the reason the Taliban hates us in the first place is because we drove out the Russians and then disappeared, left the Afghans to clean up the mess; when we should have, in hindsight, stayed to help them re-establish at least a pre-war status.

The US can spout peace, freedom, and the American way, but when they withdraw from Afghanistan someday, the Taliban will return to run most of the country as before, except for a few large patches run by the tribal opium drug lords.

Mahatma coat

And so What if the Taliban Return, by that logic would it be acceptable for the Taliban to go To America and impose Sharia Law??

What give the Americans the Right to determine how other Nations conduct their business??

Manic Moran

Mahatma coat wrote: »

What give the Americans the Right to determine how other Nations conduct their business??

That smoking hole in the ground planned in Afghanistan probably had something to do with it.

The US was quite happy to leave Afghanistan alone until that happened. Even though I do rather wish that someone had done something before those two Bhuddas got blown up.

NTM

Victor

Clawdeeus wrote: »

Actually, it is a myth that war is good for the economy at all

Notably, someone else's war can be excellent for your economy. Just ask the people of Shannon.

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

The US acquired the Philippine Islands as a result of the 1898 Spanish-American War. If they were imperialist, why did they allow the Philippines to become independent in 1946?

Racism. The USA could easily absorb the Alaskans and Hawai'ians as citizens, but couldn't do the same with Phillipinos.

The Philippines, Alaska and Hawai'i were the 3 American territories attacked by Japan (there were limited attacks on the west coast of the continental USA). Alaska and Hawai'i became states, The Philippines didn't.

Wompa1

pablo_escobar wrote: »

Who do you think is funding the US economy and it's wars?
It isn't the US itself.

Asian countries have been funding them from buying US bonds.

The US economy is destroyed and the only thing that has kept it ticking over this long was the asian nations buying US debt.

You might ask "why buy if they didn't want it"

The truth is, asian countries and in particular China were unable to buy anything other than bonds or equities from the US but all this has done is fuel the Iraq, Afghanistan and potential war with Iran.

So when nobody wants US debt anymore, China is made a scapegoat and we see the FED buying it back instead.

Bear in mind the US will never repay the debt asian nations buy, so what is the point?

US will need to bring back manufacturing jobs to it's country, jobs that create exports and inflow of capital.

If it doesn't, it's future is doomed.

I don't think America going to war with Iran would stop Asians backing them to be honest. Asia knows that it makes more money when the American economy is still around. It's all about money.

I'd agree with you regarding the manufacturing jobs. Obama needs to get a little more selfish with his economic policies. They need to get American companies to bring jobs back to America, be that manufacturing, IT etc.

Of course that could pretty much be the nail in this country's coffin but if I was the president of the US I would definately be pushing for that.