Base Spec German Luxury Cars

Mr.David

Had a base spec Merc C Class on test this week - the C180 with no extras. Just struck me looking at it - it really really looks completely poo in base trim. And the interior is no better. The cloth really drags it down, apart from which its boring anyway.

Such a dull and awkward looking car to spend a considerable amount of cash on - why do people bother?

To be honest the base 3 series and A4 arent a whole lot better.

I think its surprising that the German luxury 3 allow their base models to look crap - its bad advertising on wheels for them!

I'm glad Jag haven't followed suit - for instance the standard XF with no extras still has all you need and looks good. I know our styling dept spend a considerable amount of time ensuring the car looks good in base spec as it will outsell higher spec cars anyway.

I was just shocked really at how unappealing an expensive car can be!

tossy

You mean Irish spec? Sure why should they bother loading them when they know the bog spec Audi/BMWs/Mercs will sell by the dozen to the "Lastest year reg plate,smallest engine,lowest spec,look at me in my fancy car,keep up with the neighbours brigade"

It's an Irish phenomenon. :rolleyes:

CompleteCarGuy

it used to be the case that the cars were ordered with very basic spec here in Ireland to reduce the VRT cost. Things have improved greatly but we still have entry-level cars that are often at a lower spec than in other markets.

It can be a pain when you compare what you get in the UK etc on entry-level but really we are the same as other high tax markets - Denmark, Portugal etc.

When it becomes a real problem is when we get fewer airbags than other countries, or no ESP because it is a costly option.

Drummerboy08

German manufacturers have been very good at this over the years. As you said, a base spec A4/C Class/3 Series/Passat/Golf has been very, very basic until very recently. Even now, a Trendline Passat or Golf is very paddy spec.

stimpson

Since when has a C180 been a Luxury car?

mickdw

I think the OP is uk based. He is dead right though. The Class C is poor in base form and the E is just terrible with base spec. Its not just an Irish thing either.
IMO audi do a better job in this regard. Most Audis can be made respectable by taking off the tiny base model wheels but the likes of the latest E class is just a lost cause in base spec.

Drummerboy08

mickdw wrote: »

I think the OP is uk based. He is dead right though. The Class C is poor is base form and the E is just terrible with base spec. Its not just an Irish thing either.
IMO audi do a better job in this regard. Most Audis can be made respectable by taking off the tiny base model wheels but the likes of the latest E class is just a lost cause in base spec.

I'd prefer to buy a specced up C Class rather than a base model E Class. Im not a fan of the E Class anyhow, but the same would apply to most other cars. I'd prefer a specced up 3 Series over an entry level 5 Series SE.

Mr.David

I should have mentioned - the car was hired in Germany.

I think it did have alloys - but they were poxy little 16s- reminded me of Clarksons description of the E90 on small alloys as resembling a couch on coasters. So true!

I just think its damaging for the German brands. Lexus dont do it, nor do many others.

If they insist on having poorly specced entry cars they should design the car around small alloys etc and make it look reasonable at least.

I'd much rather a well specced Golf or whatever.

Had the new VW toureg 3.0tdi too - which I liked. It is slightly dull both to look at and drive, but its comfortable and goes well (although it seemed to guzzle fuel). Only downside was the crap stereo and poor powertrain refinement below 2000rpm (vibration through floor, seat and steering wheel).

R.O.R

Things have improved hugely in the past few years though.

I drove an 07 A4 SE on Friday. It's a base model with a MFSW, upgraded wheels, armrest and "wood" trim. Keep fit windows in the back, no mulitfunction computer, no cruise, no parking sensors etc..

Brought that one back from delivering a new A4 SE (2011MY). Electric Windows all round, integrated bluetooth, colour display with multi function computer, cruise control, MFSW and parking sensors.

Old model C class classic had steel wheels with wheel trims, new model at least has (far too small) Alloys. Same situation with BMW and Audi - thankfully it's rare nowadays to get new cars with steel wheels unless you are really bargain basement. All Fords from Focus up now have Alloys as standard, and hopefully the likes of Opel and VW will follow suit.

Mr.David

R.O.R wrote: »

Keep fit windows

mickdw

So were you on under cover testing duty for Jaguar?

Mr.David

Was testing alright......doing wind tunnel testing.

Always enjoyable. Drove over from the UK in an Audi TT roadster and the Toureg.

dr.fuzzenstein

I remember this discussion as far back as the late 80's, when Japanese cars started piling on the extras, 16 valve engine, power windows, power steering, sunroof, metallic paint, tinted windows (those where all extras back then).
German cars in base standard gave you: a body shell, 4 wheels, an engine and a steering wheel.
My dad bought a Golf in 1974 and legend has it he paid extra for a brake servo and a rear fog light.
German cars in base spec have traditionally been extremely poor with early Golfs not even having a clock, it was an optional extra.

Owen

The e90 was a hideous thing in basic spec. Below is a photo of an ES with those ridiculous alloys that looked like shopping trolley wheels - butt ugly. It didn't get any better inside. Cloth seats, cloth armrests on the doors, 5 blank buttons below the heater controls, plenty of blank buttons on the heater control too, and the steering wheel was just uncomfortable. It was leather, sure, but the leather was so thin and cheap that the wheel might as well have been plastic. I don't know how you could let a car as expensive as the 3 series on to the market with such a basic level of kit as to ruin the impression the brand was trying to create.



The e46 wasn't a whole lot better (It was a better car IMHO anyway), the thing had a cassette deck until 05. Mid-late 30's for a car, and it came with a cassette deck, when you couldn't even buy cassettes anymore, more blank buttons on the dash, manual rear windows, no aircon, no foglights. You could buy a Punto at the time for a third of the price with full electrics, aircon, fogs, upgraded alloys, sunroof, metallic and 1+6 CD player. Mental.

I personally think the fit out of the newer BMWs, and to an extent all German Cars, is getting very cheap and nasty. Plastics are hard to touch and unpleasant to look at, leather is getting plasticky, even switches aren't that nice to push. I think it's because once upon a time cars were made to last, now they're made to be recycled.

I Was VB

JDM Cars have the Germans wiped out, i'm driving a 1994 Toyota Corona that has electric windows front and back, electric mirrors that fold in, A/C, ABS. To think in 1994 you could buy two of these for the price of a C180.

Even to the late 1980's radios in Mercs were a extra!!

mike65

Until the early 90s BMW didn't even include a radio/cassette player as standard on every model, stuff like electric windows and mirrors was strictly for the posh! Of course others, the Japanese in particular, saw this Germanic extras business as a weakness and so made damned sure their large cars were packed to the gunnels with buttons.

VolvoMan

R.O.R wrote: »

Old model C class classic had steel wheels with wheel trims, new model at least has (far too small) Alloys. Same situation with BMW and Audi - thankfully it's rare nowadays to get new cars with steel wheels unless you are really bargain basement. All Fords from Focus up now have Alloys as standard, and hopefully the likes of Opel and VW will follow suit.

I'd rather have nice looking set of wheel trims than crappy looking alloys to be honest. Volvo used to regularly fit wheel trims to their cars that I always thought looked better than their basic 15 inch alloys:




I think in the latter image for instance the alloys somehow make what is a nice design relatively plain.

Anan1

Mr.David wrote: »

Had a base spec Merc C Class on test this week - the C180 with no extras. Just struck me looking at it - it really really looks completely poo in base trim. And the interior is no better. The cloth really drags it down, apart from which its boring anyway.

Such a dull and awkward looking car to spend a considerable amount of cash on - why do people bother?

To be honest the base 3 series and A4 arent a whole lot better.

I think its surprising that the German luxury 3 allow their base models to look crap - its bad advertising on wheels for them!

I'm glad Jag haven't followed suit - for instance the standard XF with no extras still has all you need and looks good. I know our styling dept spend a considerable amount of time ensuring the car looks good in base spec as it will outsell higher spec cars anyway.

I was just shocked really at how unappealing an expensive car can be!

I'd guess at a couple of reasons:

1. Appearance is not a primary concern for all buyers, and some will resent paying extra for what they see as useless tat.

2. Buyers differ in their ideas of what looks well.

SpannerMonkey

Mr.David wrote: »

Had a base spec Merc C Class on test this week - the C180 with no extras. Just struck me looking at it - it really really looks completely poo in base trim. And the interior is no better. The cloth really drags it down, apart from which its boring anyway.

Such a dull and awkward looking car to spend a considerable amount of cash on - why do people bother?

To be honest the base 3 series and A4 arent a whole lot better.

I think its surprising that the German luxury 3 allow their base models to look crap - its bad advertising on wheels for them!

I'm glad Jag haven't followed suit - for instance the standard XF with no extras still has all you need and looks good. I know our styling dept spend a considerable amount of time ensuring the car looks good in base spec as it will outsell higher spec cars anyway.

I was just shocked really at how unappealing an expensive car can be!

]#

you cant compare a c class or 3 series or A4 to a jag XF they are a totally different class of car the xf is more of a E class compeditor having said that i agree base cars on any car look crap

opinion guy

R.O.R wrote: »

I drove an 07 A4 SE on Friday. It's a base model with a MFSW, upgraded wheels, armrest and "wood" trim. Keep fit windows in the back, no mulitfunction computer, no cruise, no parking sensors etc..

Brought that one back from delivering a new A4 SE (2011MY). Electric Windows all round, integrated bluetooth, colour display with multi function computer, cruise control, MFSW and parking sensors.

I wouldn't call and SE model basic spec. Take a look in a new bog standard A3 - its spartan. Take a look in a new bog standard VW - its got similar styling and extras to my uncles 1983 Defender 90.

on a side note ....keep fit windows....lol

Paddy spec takes other forms also. Buy a new audi in ireland - years warranty. But in norn irn 3 years warranty.

RedorDead

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

German manufacturers have been very good at this over the years. As you said, a base spec A4/C Class/3 Series/Passat/Golf has been very, very basic until very recently. Even now, a Trendline Passat or Golf is very paddy spec.

I think a lot of it was down to the local distributors in Ireland - BMW bought Frank Keane out about 5/6 years ago and immediately matched equipment levels one to one to those in the UK. Audi bought out MDL in 2008 and immediately embarked on improving equipment levels of cars. Its something you cannot simply change overnight as residuals can take a hammering - but now in Ireland every Audi has alloys, air con and esp as standard.

It does take one brand to take a stand and add the equipment - other brands will then have to follow. Otherwise the status quo remains.

VolvoMan

RedorDead wrote: »

but now in Ireland every Audi has alloys, air con and esp as standard.

I've seen a good few B8 A4's on steelies.

Eric Cartman

In ireland people have a terrible trait of buying cars with nothign on them , if they have more money they buy a bigger/newer car with nothing on it , Id rather an older / cheaper car with everything on it but I take a very non irish approach to it . only for the likes of the 7 series and lexus's having leather as standard im sure thered be a fair lot of them knocking around with cloth seats

typically , give an irish person 90k and tell them to buy a saloon and theyd buy a 730d with nothing on it , where people like me would step back a model and get a 535i/550 and throw everythign on it

sid40

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I'd prefer to buy a specced up C Class rather than a base model E Class. Im not a fan of the E Class anyhow, but the same would apply to most other cars. I'd prefer a specced up 3 Series over an entry level 5 Series SE.

While agreeing that we have tended to accept "poverty spec" cars as the standard here over the years, surely models coming out now have to be regarded as being much better specced than before. An "entry level" 5 series today (i.e. the 520d SE) has leather, cruise control, automatic air-con, parking sensors front and rear, bluetooth, fogs, alloys as standard, which seems pretty OK. You wonder after the above standard specs, how many extras are really necessary? They may be nice but are they a neccesity? Does Joe Blogg need to spend an extra 2K on comfier seats or an extra 1K on a better speaker system?!

-Corkie-

mickdw wrote: »

I think the OP is uk based. He is dead right though. The Class C is poor in base form and the E is just terrible with base spec. Its not just an Irish thing either.
IMO audi do a better job in this regard. Most Audis can be made respectable by taking off the tiny base model wheels but the likes of the latest E class is just a lost cause in base spec.

I was telling you earlier in the year my brother bought a new e-class. I was quite proud of him because he has not a clue about cars. I could not believe it when I seen it how boring and bland it was. Someday he will join Boards and post a picture of a Nissan Tida in the Here is what I saw today thread..:o:o

mickdw

-Corkie- wrote: »

I was telling you earlier in the year my brother bought a new e-class. I was quite proud of him because he has not a clue about cars. I could not believe it when I seen it how boring and bland it was. Someday he will join Boards and post a picture of a Nissan Tida in the Here is what I saw today thread..:o:o

The E Class though in the right spec does look well and I wouldnt mind one at all. It has to be avantgarde or sport though.
I was having a look at a sport at cunningham higgins in galway and the salesman was practically laughing at me. I dont know, he thought I was a chancer I guess.

Damien360

The poverty spec is here to stay. Have a look at the new toyota avensis aura in Ireland (only spec available) and the TR spec on UK website. Vast differnence in spec. The landed price for Uk version is around 30K for estate and poverty spec irish one is just shy of 29K which is why I compare each of these. Uk gets 5 years warranty and Irish one gets 3 years.

BMW have at least changed that with current 5 series but it looks like it is the first to do that change.

-Corkie-

mickdw wrote: »

The E Class though in the right spec does look well and I wouldnt mind one at all. It has to be avantgarde or sport though.
I was having a look at a sport at cunningham higgins in galway and the salesman was practically laughing at me. I dont know, he thought I was a chancer I guess.

Oh but he got the base model... I dont like them though. Rear is a Hyundai Sonata..

robtri

the base spec models from germany IMHO have alwys been crap...

I remember not too long ago buy in the basic 5 series for work.. we got a load of them in...
while all other manufacturers even micras where getting CD as standard.. the 5 series.. had a fecking tape deck.....
and after paying out shed loads of money u got aset of plastic hub caps.... like WTF

basic spec in BMWs has been ****e...
and AUDI's and Merc's are just as bad....

TomMc

The German motor manufacturers know that there are lots of new car buyers that aspire to their marques and have no discrimination beyond the badge on the bonnet. Motorists who prefer a low spec, upmarket car (an oxymoron of sorts) over a fully loaded repmobile with a superior engine and dynamics etc. Market share and profit margins are where it is at, for the likes of Mercedes/BMW/Audi, so they dumb down for a larger slice of the pie.

All new car buyers have a budget, most have limited means (and so like champagne for beer price), so buy the most expensive looking car they can afford, so long as they have (ongoing) running costs similar to more mass-market fare. The Irish governments rip off the motorist policies have also had a major effect down the years. So the small majority of prestige cars were 2 Litre or lower as a consequence.

The only area where it makes sense is that in the past a large executive car in a marques model range, tended to be better engineered than its compact sibling in a different segment of the market. After all (engines aside) spec tends to be more about furnishings and cosmetics, not mechanical underpinnings. Nowadays prestige cars are mass-produced, so not over engineered like Mercs of old. There isn't such a gap between a C and E-Class like would have been the case a decade or more ago.

Eric Cartman

sid40 wrote: »

Does Joe Blogg need to spend an extra 2K on comfier seats or an extra 1K on a better speaker system?!

yes, because until you go to sell the car to poverty spec paddy , those extras are so worth it.