Outside collectors!?!?!

wolfpawnat

Hello I was wondering if anyone here could help me with this.

Long story short, partner took out a €5,000 loan when he was working. He paid off about half, and lost his job. He has gone back to college. During the summer last year, all he could get was 10 hours a week in his local supermarket stacking boxes. He used ever cent he earned to pay off his loan of €98 a month, plus added anything he earned that was extra to the payments too. So he was down to €1,500 He had to get it restructured to go to college for the year, but was unsuccessful getting work this summer.

He asked for his loan to be restructured while he could not find any work. The bank never got back to say whether this was ok, after they took all his details, proof he is in college, a credit card statement, etc. We then get a letter in the door saying his €300 overdraft is maxed because they had taken 3 months of payments off it though they were supposed to be discussing his restructuring. They also "downgraded" his account, whatever that means!?!

We were talking to them a lot, and they were very threathening and rude to him. They agreed to €30 a month payments for 4 months (which I am paying) and then they would get back to him to see if he could increase it.

Yesterday the bank rang up, saying they were increasing the repayments to €70 a month (we can't afford that) and said the minimum monthly repayment would have to be €37 a month, we said we could do that, but the pencil pusher on the phone said that would be unacceptable and that they are getting an outside collector to deal with it!?!?!?!?!

What does this mean? We are both students, I am the financial supporter of the 2 of us and our son. We cannot afford much more than we are paying. A bank should be lucky we are paying anything at all in current conditions. I know a person with the same branch of the same bank, that got a mortgage while on JSA, and has topped it up for cars, tattoos, wooden floors, and has had the loan stretched out to 84 years. He owes €300,000 and they are not annoying him, my OH only owes about €1,250 and he is willing to pay them as much as possible but it isn't good enough.

Sorry for the long post. Can anyone answer my original question regarding outside collectors please.

Thank you

jor el

It seems the bank are about to pass the debt off to a collection agency. It's going to get more complicated if that happens. Debt collection agencies operate outside all regulation, and possibly outside the law. I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe that a debt collection agency would actually have no legal claim on the debt, so you could ignore it if it passes to them. Personally, I would never deal with a collection agency, only ever deal with the originator.

The best advice I could give you would be to make an appointment to see MABS, and do it now.

chris85

jor el wrote: »

It seems the bank are about to pass the debt off to a collection agency. It's going to get more complicated if that happens. Debt collection agencies operate outside all regulation, and possibly outside the law. I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe that a debt collection agency would actually have no legal claim on the debt, so you could ignore it if it passes to them. Personally, I would never deal with a collection agency, only ever deal with the originator.

The best advice I could give you would be to make an appointment to see MABS, and do it now.

Ok firstly a debt collection does have a right to deal with it. Generally they are acting on behalf of the bank so the money is still owing to the bank but they are assisting them in the collection of the debt. Its in everyones credit agreement that accounts may be passed to these agencys, so basically ignoring them woint help as the bank will not engage as they have their agent doing so. Ignoring them will mean it will end up in court which is no help to the OP. The collection agency are perfectably in their rights to deal with it.

OP I feel for your situation. Ring the bank and tell them you are forwarding them a complete budget for consideration with an offer for payments. If they refuse to do this then advise you are seeking the assistance of MABS and try agree reduced payments for a month or so to give time to get appointment with MABS.

MABS have an agreed procedure with the bank which will mean you will get sorted by going to them. Even if it is with the collection agency the bank will ensure they follow this procedure with MABS as they are an agent representing the bank.

Any more questions just ask

jor el

chris85 wrote: »

Ok firstly a debt collection does have a right to deal with it. Generally they are acting on behalf of the bank so the money is still owing to the bank but they are assisting them in the collection of the debt. Its in everyones credit agreement that accounts may be passed to these agencys, so basically ignoring them woint help as the bank will not engage as they have their agent doing so. Ignoring them will mean it will end up in court which is no help to the OP. The collection agency are perfectably in their rights to deal with it.

Depends on the way it's done. I've heard of cases where when a debt is sold off, the original debt owner no longer have any record of it, because they have sold it to the collector. In that case, your original debt is gone, and the bank will no longer pursue it. The debt collector will pursue it however, and may (not will) use the courts as part of that. Going to court will cost money, and if the amount is small then it wouldn't be cost effective.

My advice still stands, deal directly with the bank only, and talk to MABS.

chris85

jor el wrote: »

Depends on the way it's done. I've heard of cases where when a debt is sold off, the original debt owner no longer have any record of it, because they have sold it to the collector. In that case, your original debt is gone, and the bank will no longer pursue it. The debt collector will pursue it however, and may (not will) use the courts as part of that. Going to court will cost money, and if the amount is small then it wouldn't be cost effective.

My advice still stands, deal directly with the bank only, and talk to MABS.

Ok but the bank are entitled to sell the written off debts and the buyer is entitled to chase it.

Your post previously advised no legal right to chase it but they do. Also the original creditor will have record of it for a number of year as required by Data Protect Act.

Your advice to deal with bank only is pointless if it goes to a collector, the bank have made the decision they dont want to deal with it any more and are legally entitled to do this so your advice is futile to be honest but agree with your advice to see MABS.

OP I feel for your situation here as its similar to thousands others but every case is unique also. I do hope you get sorted. Even if you are dealing with a collector do engage politely with them if needed but if you do feel they are not being professional you are entitled to complain to the original creditor if required. You still deserve to be treated as a human at the end of the day.

Do let us know how you get on!

wolfpawnat

Thank you so much for your advice. I have to say I am really embarrassed with myself. The amount of times I have come onto boards and told people in financial difficulty to go seek assistance from MABS and actually forgot about them when I needed them is quite laughable!

No matter who has the debt it will remain the same case. €40 is the MAX we can pay a month. We have a lot of other regular household bills (as every home does) and trying to balance a household budget AND college is extremely difficult as it is. Of course whoever it is we are dealing with we will always take the moral and polite high ground.

We are doing our best, we are trying to keep on top of all bills. As it stands at this moment of time, I only owe one bill of €40. I paid out €200 on other bills today. We do not want to skip out on any of them and I am so grateful it is only €1,250 that is owed. There are thousands that are tens of thousands in debt and are looking at our measily €1,250 with jealousy. Its just these days that is more than we could imagine having!

Once again thank you for all your great advice. It has taken a great weight off my shoulders. I will be in contact with MABS on Monday morning. I have a feeling if others are being treated as we are though, we could be waiting a while for an appointment!

chris85

All you can do is your best OP so dont be embarressed by this. You are just a victim of the times we are in and you are trying your best.

Do talk to MABS first thing on monday. Ring the bank and let them know you have sought their assistance and send them a payment of €40 payment for this month out of good faith as you say you can afford this.

They have an agreed protocol as below in link. The bank must follow this guideline, assuming they are one of the IBF banks which most of the big ones are.

http://www.mabs.ie/Media/IBF-MABS%20Protocol_FINAL_June'09.pdf

kaiser sauze

To the OP, if you can do the €37 that you said they would accept, do so.

Put it in writing that you are accepting that offer and only communicate in future in writing. If they call you, tell them they do not have permission to do so and also advise them that this lack of permission extends to anyone they may hire to act on their behalf.

Keep everything to writing, stick to your guns that you can only afford the €37 and if they insist on going before a court-which they would be foolish to do-the judge may ask them why they are taking a person to court that is paying what they can afford.

There are many people in your position and the main thing is that you are not refusing to pay, you are not ignoring correspondence and you have a recent history of payments.

All these will go in your favour, and they know it. Call their bluff!!

kaiser sauze

jor el wrote: »

It seems the bank are about to pass the debt off to a collection agency. It's going to get more complicated if that happens. Debt collection agencies operate outside all regulation, and possibly outside the law. I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe that a debt collection agency would actually have no legal claim on the debt, so you could ignore it if it passes to them. Personally, I would never deal with a collection agency, only ever deal with the originator.

The best advice I could give you would be to make an appointment to see MABS, and do it now.

If the original lender 'sells' the debt, the 3rd party are entitled to chase it. Ignoring is not an option.

jor el wrote: »

My advice still stands, deal directly with the bank only, and talk to MABS.

No, it doesn't.

When the lender sells the debt, they recuse themselves completely from all rights to it and could only engage if they re-bought back the debt from the collector.

The collector has every right to issue proceedings in a court, assuming they have taken over the debt completely, but if they are merely acting on behalf of the lender, assisting them in securing repayment, it is the lender that must issue the proceedings.

chris85

kaiser sauze wrote: »

The collector has every right to issue proceedings in a court, assuming they have taken over the debt completely, but if they are merely acting on behalf of the lender, assisting them in securing repayment, it is the lender that must issue the proceedings.

If this is the case the collector has their solicitors issue proceedings on behalf of the bank/institution.

maximoose

Just be aware that the banks AREN'T obliged to accept the payment plan offers from MABS. I see their payment scheme offers rejected daily if the bank dont feel its enough.

Given your circumstances and the small balance of the loan I cant see why they would reject in your case, just get into MABS and get the statement of means sent in and hopefully they'll work with you on it! Best of luck!

chris85

maximoose wrote: »

Just be aware that the banks AREN'T obliged to accept the payment plan offers from MABS. I see their payment scheme offers rejected daily if the bank dont feel its enough.

Given your circumstances and the small balance of the loan I cant see why they would reject in your case, just get into MABS and get the statement of means sent in and hopefully they'll work with you on it! Best of luck!

Depends on the bank. If its one of the IBF banks they have to accept the offer if its backed up with a statement of affairs as per the protocol in place between the bank and MABS.

maximoose

Not true, if you see part 1b of the protocol General Principles (and pretty much every other point that has anything to do with offering a payment plan, the key words are "mutually-acceptable". At the end of the day if the bank thinks the offer is too low they dont have to accept it.

Believe me, I work for a member of the IBF and see MABS told where to go regularly... and generally without any fight from mabs!

*runs for the hills*

kaiser sauze

maximoose wrote: »

Not true, if you see part 1b of the protocol General Principles (and pretty much every other point that has anything to do with offering a payment plan, the key words are "mutually-acceptable". At the end of the day if the bank thinks the offer is too low they dont have to accept it.

Believe me, I work for a member of the IBF and see MABS told where to go regularly... and generally without any fight from mabs!

*runs for the hills*

That's just both sides trying to extract the best arrangement possible. Nothing awry there.

wolfpawnat

Hey all, thanks for the great advice.

I said I would leave an update.

We sent a blunt but polite email to the bank. Saying that we were shocked at the rude and unprofessional behaviour on the phone. I cannot remember if I said this but they rang his mother regarding it and were horribly rude to her. So we told them it is against the law to discuss one persons financial situation with someone not related to the matter, and that the media and our solicitor would be very interested in the fact they did this.

We also said we were getting onto MABS and that it was never a situation that we did not want to pay, but that the payments they wanted were greater than we could afford and we only wanted to pay off the loan! We mentioned this several times in the email. We also said that we were sick of getting 4-5 letters in a matter of 2-3 day and that we kept every single one so if this matter went further we could prove their intimidation.

We got a phone call within 3 hours of sending the email and the person on the other end of the phone was all polite and apologetic for the way things had gone. She then discussed the payments with himself and she said that the bank was willing to give us 4 months of interest free payments at the €30, and then in March they would make increase the payments to about €35 so we would be paying €5 interest and the rest off the loan. Which is more than fair:)

So this was a happy solution and I really hope it continues this way!

copacetic

kaiser sauze wrote: »

If the original lender 'sells' the debt, the 3rd party are entitled to chase it. Ignoring is not an option.



No, it doesn't.

When the lender sells the debt, they recuse themselves completely from all rights to it and could only engage if they re-bought back the debt from the collector.

The collector has every right to issue proceedings in a court, assuming they have taken over the debt completely, but if they are merely acting on behalf of the lender, assisting them in securing repayment, it is the lender that must issue the proceedings.

there was no talk here of 'selling' the debt. Just getting an agency to follow up on it for them. Basically a paid hassler/bully.

Absolutely right to totally ignore these people and only deal with original debt holder until there is proper evidence of the debt being sold on. (and the agency claiming this has happened isn't that, generally the truth is meaningless to these people)

kaiser sauze

copacetic wrote: »

there was no talk here of 'selling' the debt. Just getting an agency to follow up on it for them. Basically a paid hassler/bully.

Absolutely right to totally ignore these people and only deal with original debt holder until there is proper evidence of the debt being sold on. (and the agency claiming this has happened isn't that, generally the truth is meaningless to these people)

Yes, I agree in the main without getting into the details.

Once the debtor deals with the lender at the very least it will look good if it comes to proceedings.

The problems begin when debtors ignore the lender, the agency, and legal firms.