I've been offered satellite BB by the NBS ...

ToadVine

So, I've had the NBS with 3 since April last year. Even though I live about 3 km from my closest mast, I've had nothing but problems. I've kept a detailed record of all my downtime/contact with 3, and I've had no service for a total of about 45 days since April 2010. Currently my connection has been down since Tuesday ... 3 tell me there is a likelyhood that it wont be fixed till next Tuesday.

I've complained so much and so frequently that they have now offered me the satellite BB option. I'm in two minds about whether or not I should take this option. When the 3 mi-fi dongle is working it tends to work well. I frequently get speeds of 3mbps with pings of 80ms. The problem is that its unreliable. 3 have told me that the issues with my mast are being sorted, and it should be a trouble free mast by the end of the year with improved speeds and pings.

I know satellite is 3-4mbps down speed, but I'm worried about the pings of 800+ms. I only download about 5gb/month, and use the Internet for work use and a bit of Skype.

So what should I do? Get satellite or keep my NBS mi-fi with the hope it'll improve???

jor el

For Skype, any satellite connection will be a loser. The latency will introduce a very noticeable delay in the conversation. Other applications can have problems with it too.

It is possible that a satellite connection would be more reliable than your current 3G connection, but this may be no good to you given the poor latency. Either solution is obviously not ideal, so you have to pick the lesser of the two evils.

If Three are claiming that the latency will improve beyond 80ms, then that's not true. 80ms is probably the absolute best you'd ever see on 3G, typically it would be in the order of 150ms.

This thread is probably better off in the 3 interaction forum too, moving from Midband.

ToadVine

With respect, could this thread be moved back to Midband please?

I dont wish to engage with the 3 rep, and I was hoping to get the opinion of the people on the Midband forum who are familiar with satellite BB technology. Also, there are a number of other satellite BB threads in Midband at the moment.

Thanks.

Cabaal

Will have to get jor el to move thus bacj as he's a mod if this forum.

Op may i suggest you drop a PM to the three rep asking them for a confirmed response regarding the mast in question.

Might be worth doing this before even looking at the sat option

watty

3's 3G/HSPA can only get poorer as more customers are added. It won't improve.

drunkmonkey

watty wrote: »

3's 3G/HSPA can only get poorer as more customers are added. It won't improve.

It will improve if not many more customers are added, Toad is in a NBS area, capacity shouldn't be a major problem.
Personally i'd get them to sort out the reception. There's a bump in speed due before the end of this year, not sure if it's going to 14mb or 21mb.

Three: Patrick

OP, if you PM me we'll take it from there.

ToadVine

Just to clarify ... I have asked for this thread to be moved back to "Midband". I have already had extensive contact with a 3 NBS rep offline and I do not wish to interact with the 3 rep here.

I am looking for info and opinions on satellite BB vs. mobile 3 NBS BB. Specifically, 3 have told me that the BB service in my area will be "settling down" and the technology will be improving. Since March I've had 45 days downtime and a nightmare with slow speeds and totally incompetent customer care with multiple broken promises etc. I have complained so much that they have offered me satellite BB.

So my question is very simple ... should I believe 3 that the mobile BB service will improve and settle down, or should I go for the satellite option with reliable speeds and service but much longer pings. I use BB mainly for work ... I need decent download speeds (about 1mbps) and I use Skype frequently. Reliability is my main requirement ... I need the damn thing to work when I turn it on.

All opinions welcome.

jor el

Back in Midband

ToadVine wrote: »

should I believe 3 that the mobile BB service will improve and settle down

No. I've seen no evidence that mobile midband has improved for anyone, on any network. With more people joining all the time, it will only get worse. Maximum speed increments will do little for the end users.

ToadVine wrote: »

I use BB mainly for work ... I need decent download speeds (about 1mbps) and I use Skype frequently. Reliability is my main requirement ...

Forget Skype (or any VOIP) over satellite. As it stands, the 3G connection is failing you, so you really don't have any choice or option. Satellite is the only thing left for you.

Depending on the nature of your work, satellite may not be an option either.

watty

Skype and VOIP will work on Satellite, for a strange definition of "work". But it's slightly like early stage of apollo mission.

What REALLY doesn't work is "ebay sniping", Gaming etc..

I've seen no evidence that mobile midband has improved for anyone, on any network. With more people joining all the time, it will only get worse. Maximum speed increments will do little [or nothing*] for the end users.

Agreed, but with spikey boots on.

*Each speed increment only helps 1/4 or less of the users that already get full speed. If you don't get more than 3/4 of upto speed at 3.6Mbps, you won't notice 7, 14 , 21 or 42Mbps, at all.

jor el

watty wrote: »

Skype and VOIP will work on Satellite, for a strange definition of "work". But it's slightly like early stage of apollo mission.

I should have qualified my statement. If you don't mind a 1 or 2 second delay in the conversation (possibly even more), then yes, it works. For business purposes, this is really unacceptable, as it makes even having a conversation annoying, let alone trying to have a meeting or order products, etc.

ToadVine

Watty and Jor El ... thank you for the replies ... very much appreciated.

What are your opinions on the usability of satellite BB (forget about Skype for a moment)? What exact effect does the 800ms ping have on normal surfing (say surfing abound boards.ie for example) and downloading pdf's etc? Would it be much slower and frustrating waiting for pages to load?

Also, what satellite download speeds can I expect, and do you know if the satellite service is reliable or does it have the same problems as the NBS with downtime, fluctuating speeds etc?

jor el

ToadVine wrote: »

Would it be much slower and frustrating waiting for pages to load?

Page load times would probably be the worst hit. It will take a lot longer to load, as before a page loads your browser will communicate with the host site several times, each taking 1-2 seconds, so you could be looking at 10 seconds or more between click and load.

ToadVine wrote: »

Also, what satellite download speeds can I expect, and do you know if the satellite service is reliable or does it have the same problems as the NBS with downtime, fluctuating speeds etc?

The cheapest you'll get satellite right now is through the NBS. All other services (for two way) are very expensive to install. What that's going to be like, I don't know.

watty

No, jor el
Satellite connections do TCP/IP spoofing and remote cache/lookahead of all the content on a page (URL - HTTP acceleration).
NOTHING happens for about a a second, then the whole page comes, "BANG".

In contrast above 250ms latency the 3G/HSPA takes LONGER to load a page on a 5Mbps speed than satellite at 1Mbps. Because indeed 3G/HSPA mobile does work as you suggest.

3 sometimes have supplied domesitc satellite packages with high contention. The "official" spec NBS satellite is much better (more reliable) than 3G except on latency, which is about 800ms

"Proper" Satellite is "always" on, unlike 3G. The only killer on it is latency,
Some cheap poorly installed serivices have used a "too small" dish (and/or too low power for transmitter, uplink) for Ireland, which basically does mean disconnections even in drizzle.

A properly installed and provisioned satellite service to NBS spec would be reliable, just bad latency.

ToadVine

watty wrote: »

"Proper" Satellite is "always" on, unlike 3G. The only killer on it is latency,
Some cheap poorly installed serivices have used a "too small" dish (and/or too low power for transmitter, uplink) for Ireland, which basically does mean disconnections even in drizzle.

A properly installed and provisioned satellite service to NBS spec would be reliable, just bad latency.

Is the satellite provided with the NBS "proper" satelite BB?

What size should the dish be? What do you mean by "too small"? They have told me it'll be slightly bigger than the sky TV dish and pointing in the same direction.

Is the 800ms latency really noticible? You mention it takes "about a second" for a page to load ... I could live with that!!!!

watty

If it isn't complain till it is. Don't let 3 fob you off with domestic package with hourly, daily and weekly caps. The NBS has a single monthly cap.

The specs are quite clear. It's 3's problem that that they budgeted on a system that does not exist when they tendered.