How do you identify individual gardai in riot gear?

ANXIOUS

Having looked at some of the videos from the student protest the other day it appears to me, that it is fairly hard to identfy officers.

The only marking i can see is a "D" on some of there helmets.
Also is it an offence for gardai to take off there insigna, so as to make it harder to be identified?

shampon

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Having looked at some of the videos from the student protest the other day it appears to me, that it is fairly hard to identfy officers.

The only marking i can see is a "D" on some of there helmets.
Also is it an offence for gardai to take off there insigna, so as to make it harder to be identified?

Fairly sure you can Identify them by the numbers on their helmets or the epulates. Would not know why you would want to identify them as I didn't see any thing that would warrant a complaint.

I wonder how you identify idiotic, rich Socialist/Shinner crusties. Maybe the smell of them...

Paulzx

Their number is on their baton. After they smack you the imprint is left on your head. Just look in the mirror

Hooch

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Having looked at some of the videos from the student protest the other day it appears to me, that it is fairly hard to identfy officers.

The only marking i can see is a "D" on some of there helmets.
Also is it an offence for gardai to take off there insigna, so as to make it harder to be identified?

Members of the National Public Order Unit are identified by numbers on their helmet. The letter stands for the region and under this there should be numbers two inches high.

Due to the nature of the violence we come across it is not necessary for the public to be able to identify specific Gardaí, however we are accountable by the numbers on the back of our helmet. Any deployment of the PO unit includes an evidence gatherer if available. Before anyone starts harping on the PO unit is a well trained unit who act in unison and at the command of a sergeant, who is in comms with an inspector who is in comms with the silver and gold commanders of the day.

There was a working group suggesting a single forward facing epp but they didnt run with it.

Zambia

Thats more the fault of the video to be honest. The Garda videos are probably better.

Poccington

I'd just like to tip my hate to the lads involved from the PO Unit and indeed the other members of AGS involved in the trouble. I'm sure anyone who is trained in PO will agree that the training can be a ball buster but the PO unit proved that the training paid off.

Good work.

ANXIOUS

shampon wrote: »

Fairly sure you can Identify them by the numbers on their helmets or the epulates. Would not know why you would want to identify them as I didn't see any thing that would warrant a complaint.

I wonder how you identify idiotic, rich Socialist/Shinner crusties. Maybe the smell of them...

Who said i wanted to make a complaint? Gardai in riot gear dont wear epulates.

ANXIOUS

nice guy always wrote: »

Members of the National Public Order Unit are identified by numbers on their helmet. The letter stands for the region and under this there should be numbers two inches high.

Due to the nature of the violence we come across it is not necessary for the public to be able to identify specific Gardaí, however we are accountable by the numbers on the back of our helmet. Any deployment of the PO unit includes an evidence gatherer if available. Before anyone starts harping on the PO unit is a well trained unit who act in unison and at the command of a sergeant, who is in comms with an inspector who is in comms with the silver and gold commanders of the day.

There was a working group suggesting a single forward facing epp but they didnt run with it.

As always your posts are very informative. So just to clear something up, a member of the public can not identify a gardai in riot gear from looking at them head on? This seems very odd to me as a lay person, the reason i say this is if i was a gardai the last place i would want someone is behind me in my blind spot.

Do people here agree with this? Im guessing most people who want to make a compliant never get the identifying numbers.

While i agree with you that they are well trainned, some people will always go a bit "mad" when confronted with a hostile situation like what they experienced. I dont put that down to lack of trainning just nerves and adrenaline.


So i can clearly see the numbers here im guessing this is the love ulster parade,

http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/photo376261.htm

But cant see them here is it down to the new uniforms are a change in the rules?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1105/demonstration.html

HarryPotter41

ANXIOUS wrote: »

As always your posts are very informative. So just to clear something up, a member of the public can not identify a gardai in riot gear from looking at them head on? This seems very odd to me as a lay person, the reason i say this is if i was a gardai the last place i would want someone is behind me in my blind spot.

Do people here agree with this? Im guessing most people who want to make a compliant never get the identifying numbers.

While i agree with you that they are well trainned, some people will always go a bit "mad" when confronted with a hostile situation like what they experienced. I dont put that down to lack of trainning just nerves and adrenaline.

And a lot of the time, provocation

ANXIOUS

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

And a lot of the time, provocation

Agreed but thats there job, thats what they have to expect. If they cant handle provocation they shouldnt be in that line of work.

HarryPotter41

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Agreed but thats there job, thats what they have to expect. If they cant handle provocation they shouldnt be in that line of work.

I agree, but remember in any given situation anyone can react more strongly than trained, some of the sbuse can be very personal, and they are human after all. Its the people doing the provoking that should be looking at themselves

MagicSean

ANXIOUS wrote: »

As always your posts are very informative. So just to clear something up, a member of the public can not identify a gardai in riot gear from looking at them head on? This seems very odd to me as a lay person, the reason i say this is if i was a gardai the last place i would want someone is behind me in my blind spot.

Do people here agree with this? Im guessing most people who want to make a compliant never get the identifying numbers.

While i agree with you that they are well trainned, some people will always go a bit "mad" when confronted with a hostile situation like what they experienced. I dont put that down to lack of trainning just nerves and adrenaline.


So i can clearly see the numbers here im guessing this is the love ulster parade,

http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/photo376261.htm

But cant see them here is it down to the new uniforms are a change in the rules?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1105/demonstration.html

The numbers on the helmets are more for the officers to identify and control the unit. If you make a complaint about a situation like this the actions of the whole unit and their commander will be investigated.

ANXIOUS

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

I agree, but remember in any given situation anyone can react more strongly than trained, some of the sbuse can be very personal, and they are human after all. Its the people doing the provoking that should be looking at themselves

Agreed again, however im sure most people would go along with arresting them under the public order act. Instead of lowering themselves to thuggery.

HarryPotter41

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Agreed again, however im sure most people would go along with arresting them under the public order act. Instead of lowering themselves to thuggery.

Sometimes to do that takes force, for some strange reason these people do not come quietly

MagicSean

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Agreed again, however im sure most people would go along with arresting them under the public order act. Instead of lowering themselves to thuggery.

You can't try arresting individuals in a riot. It's too dangerous. You arrest the most dangerous and the ring leaders. You disperse the rest.

ANXIOUS

k_mac wrote: »

The numbers on the helmets are more for the officers to identify and control the unit. If you make a complaint about a situation like this the actions of the whole unit and their commander will be investigated.

That seems strange to me seeing as how other units around the world are moving to make officers easier to identify.

Also is it a sackable offence to conceal your epaulettes?

eroo

The Public Order Unit once again showed their professionalism when put under the spotlight by the media. Well done to them, and hope the 3 members weren't seriously hurt.

maglite

As a student I must say most of my friends disagreed with the protest, never mind the scumbags.

However there were serious discussions regarding the amount of photographed head and facial injuries. I'm sure we all agree slapping someone on the head is a dangerous thing, is this not frowned upon in training? Would there be any fallout from this or will it be looked at in further training for the PO unit? It was the only negative we as a group of students found with the actions of the PO unit.

HarryPotter41

maglite wrote: »

As a student I must say most of my friends disagreed with the protest, never mind the scumbags.

However there were serious discussions regarding the amount of photographed head and facial injuries. I'm sure we all agree slapping someone on the head is a dangerous thing, is this not frowned upon in training? Would there be any fallout from this or will it be looked at in further training for the PO unit? It was the only negative we as a group of students found with the actions of the PO unit.

Remember that in any scuffle a lot of marks and injuries can be caused by those around you when arms and elbows are swinging ( learned the hard way - and not by rioting ) so all marks would not be attributable to the Public Order Unit. I also look at it from the angle if you object to getting any form of slap don't start trouble, its one of the byproducts.

MagicSean

maglite wrote: »

As a student I must say most of my friends disagreed with the protest, never mind the scumbags.

However there were serious discussions regarding the amount of photographed head and facial injuries. I'm sure we all agree slapping someone on the head is a dangerous thing, is this not frowned upon in training? Would there be any fallout from this or will it be looked at in further training for the PO unit? It was the only negative we as a group of students found with the actions of the PO unit.

In all the videos I never saw one person hit in the head with a baton. I saw protestors hitting each other. I saw them falling head first when thrown out of the Dept of finance. I saw some getting a smack in the face with shields. But none that got hit in the head with a baton. I'm not saying it didn't happen but it certainly wasn't deliberate. The PO unit could always be seen to be aiming low in the videos.

ANXIOUS

Is it a sackable offence to conceal your epaulettes?

Paulzx

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Is it a sackable offence to conceal your epaulettes?

I've no idea. Should it be?

HarryPotter41

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Is it a sackable offence to conceal your epaulettes?

Couldn't give you a definitive answer but they are part of regulation uniform and I know uniform standards are pretty rigorously enforced. I have never seen a Garda without his shoulder number visible on normal duties.

ANXIOUS

Paulzx wrote: »

I've no idea. Should it be?

Of course it should be, if a gardai is deliberately concealing there epaulettes they know they are doing something wrong and it should be instant dismissal. The reason people in Ireland tend to have a problem with the gardai if they do have a problem is usually down to the openness and transparency of the organisation.

I know this is the case in other police forces.

ANXIOUS

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Couldn't give you a definitive answer but they are part of regulation uniform and I know uniform standards are pretty rigorously enforced. I have never seen a Garda without his shoulder number visible on normal duties.

Ill agree with you on normal duties, however during the nice protests it was widespread also during the g20 protest in london it was rampant. Ill have a look for links now.

Paulzx

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Of course it should be, if a gardai is deliberately concealing there epaulettes they know they are doing something wrong and it should be instant dismissal. .

So is he being sacked for not wearing epaulettes or for doing something wrong?

Shield

I don't think you need to look for links. You've made your point. Please keep the thread on topic.

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Ill agree with you on normal duties, however during the nice protests it was widespread also during the g20 protest in london it was rampant. Ill have a look for links now.

ANXIOUS

Paulzx wrote: »

So is he being sacked for not wearing epaulettes or for doing something wrong?

In an ideal world he would be sacked for deliberatelynot wearing them and charged for doing something wrong.

Id like to change this slightly, do people here feel that memebers of the garda ( including the riot squad) are identifiable enough? Also do they feel that there is enough accountablity in the service?

Shield

I have no problem with you starting a new thread on this. People will look at the thread title and expect what it says on the tin. You can't change the topic of a thread 25+ posts later.

You have received an answer to your question, so we'll close this one off and you can start a new one on whatever topic you wish.

Thread closed.

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Id like to change this slightly, do people here feel that memebers of the garda ( including the riot squad) are identifiable enough? Also do they feel that there is enough accountablity in the service?