R32 / S3 in snow

vintagevrs

Does anyone know how these cars perform in the snow as they are AWD?

I drove an AWD Jag X-Type in the snow/ice at the start of the year and expected it to be much better. However, even though it was AWD when one or two wheels lost grip all the power escaped through these slipping wheels.

Will the 4motion/quattro be the same or do they behave differently?

Thanks

cadaliac

NOt sure, I suppose it depends if you can lock the diff or not. With VAG products you have ESP - which essientially gives traction to the "non" slipping wheel, but this is in 2wd cars, I'm not sure of the 4wd set up.

unkel

vintagevrs wrote: »

I drove an AWD Jag X-Type in the snow/ice at the start of the year and expected it to be much better.

Are you sure it actually was an AWD? The lower end X-types are FWD only.

vintagevrs

Yes it was AWD but as you can't lock the diff made very little difference in the snow and ice. Could see the reflection of the car in a window and only the back wheels were spinning.

swe_fi

vintagevrs wrote: »

Does anyone know how these cars perform in the snow as they are AWD?

I drove an AWD Jag X-Type in the snow/ice at the start of the year and expected it to be much better. However, even though it was AWD when one or two wheels lost grip all the power escaped through these slipping wheels.

Will the 4motion/quattro be the same or do they behave differently?

Thanks

Depends on what tyres are on the car and what type of conditions you are talking about but in general a 4WD will for sure always be better in snow/ice, but you need to know how to use it.

One thing that I have found driving 4WDs on snow & ice is that it messed a bit with my head initially - it is counterintuitive - you get more grip if you press the accelerator down (when your brain tells you to break) and the car pulls you through the bend. What can also feel a a bit strange when you do this is the car is pulling "straight" forward through. You really need to take the car to a snowy car park and push it to understand the behavior & learn where the limits are.

It also depends on what type of 4WD system / car it is of course.

vintagevrs

OK, thanks for that I think but my question is - Will the quattro/4 motion system fair better than the AWD on the Jag taking other factors out of the equation (tyres/conditions being the same).

I am talking about crawling up hills for example?

I believe the traction systems on these cars all apply the brakes to the slipping wheel therefore some power will get transferred to the other wheels with more grip which works well under normal conditions. However, when there is virtually no grip I don't believe this works well at all.

Is this the case with the golf and audi?

Thanks

(trying to justify in my head getting one of these )

Ferris

vintagevrs wrote: »

I believe the traction systems on these cars all apply the brakes to the slipping wheel therefore some power will get transferred to the other wheels with more grip which works well under normal conditions. However, when there is virtually no grip I don't believe this works well at all.

Is this the case with the golf and audi?

Thanks

(trying to justify in my head getting one of these )

The VAG 4motion systems use a Haldex torque/slippage detection system. Its a form of limited slip diff and I think its used in the centre differential of these cars. In theory then it will direct torque to the axle with the most grip.

In reality you're probably as well off having a 2wd car with winter tyres because that will give you some grip under braking too. 4wd and winter tyres will cover all the bases I suppose.

Matt Simis

OP, you can Youtube these and see for yourself. They would (should) not allow 2 wheels to spin out, that effectively isnt AWD at all then.

Either that Jag was broken or their AWD system is rubbish.

Also you dont need an R32 or S3 for Haldex AWD, there are 4Motion\quattro enhanced models throughout the line up.

swe_fi

Correct me if I am wrong but...you are thinking of getting a 4WD Sports car for its ability of going up a hill? I like your style!

vintagevrs

Matt Simis wrote: »

OP, you can Youtube these and see for yourself. They would (should) not allow 2 wheels to spin out, that effectively isnt AWD at all then.

Either that Jag was broken or their AWD system is rubbish.

Also you dont need an R32 or S3 for Haldex AWD, there are 4Motion\quattro enhanced models throughout the line up.

My thoughts exactly, the AWD in the Jag is pants, I think it was worse in the snow than a FWD X-Type as it allowed the power to escape out the back

vintagevrs

swe_fi wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong but...you are thinking of getting a 4WD Sports car for its ability of going up a hill? I like your style!

Well when justifying these things...pros Vs cons and selling the idea to signifigant others every little helps!:D

tossy

My last car was a v6 4motion Bora fitted with 225/40/18 goodyear Asymmetrics, i parked the car on a slope and my commute to work involves climbing a pretty serious hill.last year in the bad weather the car handled the hills with ease,a few mornings with early starts i would be one of the first few up that hill after a night of hard freezing and it would still climb it with ease. Engine braking was also good with 4 wheel braking helping a lot,however in general driving conditions it was the tyres that let me down,having said that with sensible driving i never seen the ESP light flash once,the car also had EBD but there is no light to show that working even though i could feel it working over time.

This year i've a quattro car and have just ordered some winter tyres,i had planned to get winter tyres/wheels for the bora last year but never got around to it

peasant

This (Subaru) video explains the different AWD systems pretty well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OzK-oRPCbs

peasant

There are two different versions of "quattro"
Audis with a longitudonal engine get quattro with a torsen diff, i.e. the real McCoy ...in sportier models sometimes weighted towards RWD
Audis (and VW's) with transverse engines get a Haldex clutch ..not quite as good as the Torsen (and called "4Motion" in VW products)

tossy

peasant wrote: »

There are two different versions of "quattro"
Audis with a longitudonal engine get quattro with a torsen diff, i.e. the real McCoy ...in sportier models sometimes weighted towards RWD
Audis (and VW's) with transverse engines get a Haldex clutch ..not quite as good as the Torsen (and called "4Motion" in VW products)

Very true,good call on that video too forgot all about it.Im raging i never got winter tyres fitted to the Bora would be good to compare 4mo to quattro.

mathepac

peasant wrote: »

This (Subaru) video explains the different AWD systems pretty well...

It's easy to understand the love-affair east-coast / New England Americans have with their AWD Subarus and the various tyre / wheel / chain combinations at the back of their garages.

peasant

...as for the question how good is quattro in the snow ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyKstZ6a5ag

alpina

OP may be interested;
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/newreviews/207052/audi_s3.html

vintagevrs

peasant wrote: »

This (Subaru) video explains the different AWD systems pretty well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OzK-oRPCbs

From that it looks like the 4motion did ok, I would say the Jag would be like the Honda. I don't see the point in having 4wd like that in the Jag and Honda when it behaves like this. Basically just a badge and less economical

shogunpower

Matt Simis

Not quite understanding that last video... need to know what a lot more about whats actually going on there.

KamiKazi

God I hate driver aids and fancy electronics.

Just let me control the machine!

Matt Simis

KamiKazi wrote: »

God I hate driver aids and fancy electronics.

Just let me control the machine!

You would prefer Torsen based quattro then, purely mechanical.

opinion guy

vintagevrs wrote: »

Does anyone know how these cars perform in the snow as they are AWD?

I drove an AWD Jag X-Type in the snow/ice at the start of the year and expected it to be much better. However, even though it was AWD when one or two wheels lost grip all the power escaped through these slipping wheels.

Will the 4motion/quattro be the same or do they behave differently?

Thanks

Funnily enough I was just watching topgear where they were driving a Jag AWD in the snow and they commented on how the Jag AWD system was very basic in comparison to others.