Government to postpone publication of four-year plan!! Unbelievable!!

skelliser

GOVERNMENT PLANS to reveal details of its €15 billion four-year budget have been pushed back towards the end of this month and may not be unveiled until after the Donegal South West byelection.

A detailed four-year budget had been scheduled for publication in the next week or so but it emerged yesterday that the plan will not be disclosed until closer to the December budget.

The Government is hoping to minimise internal dissent by leaving as little time as possible between the publication of the plan and the budget on December 7th.

The long-delayed Donegal ballot will be held on November 25th and the selection convention to choose a Fianna Fáil candidate takes place in Glenties on Sunday night. The date was announced yesterday following Wednesday’s High Court ruling that a delay of 18 months was “inordinate”.

The four-year plan, devised in consultation with the European Commission, will involve an adjustment of €15 billion, with €6 billion of that coming next year.

Next year’s €6 billion adjustment will involve spending cuts of €4.5 billion and tax increases of about €1.5 billion. The four-year plan is predicated on unemployment remaining close to its present rate and emigration of 100,000 people over the period.

Announcing the adjustment, Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan said yesterday that a consolidation package of €15 billion was required over the next four years.

“A significant frontloading of the consolidation in 2011 is deemed necessary and will underline the strength of our resolve and show that the country is serious about tackling our public finance difficulties,” said Mr Lenihan.

“By the end of 2011, we will have implemented over two-thirds of the overall adjustment and we will be on a path towards renewed budgetary sustainability,” he said.

Taoiseach Brian Cowen said the reason the Government was planning to make the most significant changes next year was to “convince people on whom we depend to fund our deficits to continue to provide finances for the State”.

Fears over Ireland’s financial stability have pushed the nominal cost of Government borrowing to over 7 per cent in recent weeks, some 5 percentage points more than Germany, the strongest Euro zone member. Documents released yesterday show the Government plan only assumes a small fall in borrowing costs next year to 6.4 per cent, dropping to 4.7 per cent in 2012.

Mr Cowen, who appeared on television and radio to defend the Government’s decision, said the country’s budgetary target for this year was on course in terms of tax receipts and what the country was spending. He added that taxes had fallen to 2003 levels and would have to be brought back to 2007 levels, while spending would have to be reduced to 2007 levels, over the course of the four-year plan.

Fine Gael finance spokesman Michael Noonan described the proposed budget adjustment for next year as a “prudent target” after a briefing by Mr Lenihan and his officials. He added, however, that the Government had given Fine Gael no confidence that they had any plan to protect jobs. “Fianna Fáil and the Greens don’t get it. The country needs hope, optimism and the confidence that only a jobs and growth economic plan in parallel with the fiscal correction would deliver.”

Mr Noonan said the country needed certainty and leaving the publication of the four-year plan until after polling day in Donegal would not do that. Labour Party finance spokeswoman Joan Burton did not accept the €6 billion figure, saying it posed “an unacceptable risk to jobs and growth.” Speaking after the meeting with Mr Lenihan, she said that while the headline figure might be initially attractive, the implications of such an adjustment for jobs and growth were just as likely to undermine confidence in Ireland over time as to enhance it.

Sinn Féin spokesman on finance Arthur Morgan said after his meeting with the Minister that four successive budgets of cuts to public spending had shown austerity has failed. “The Government has unveiled a plan to cut spending, not a plan to cut the deficit. If spending cuts could fix the problem, the problem would be fixed by now,” he said.

The detail of next year’s adjustment was outlined in a nine-page document setting out the economic and fiscal background to the four-year plan. The document specified an adjustment of €6 billion next year, followed by one of €3 to €4 billion in 2012; €3 to €3.5 billion in 2013; and €2 to €2.5 billion in 2014.

The measures are aimed at cutting borrowing to 3 per cent of gross domestic product by 2014. This is the target set under the rules of the European single currency and is seen as a sustainable level of borrowing by the European Commission.

The department accepted the spending cuts and tax rises would further reduce growth by reducing spending by departments and individuals.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/1105/1224282727032.html


Seriously we are very close to living in a totalitarian regime.

Fianna Fail are deliberately withholding the plan so as to minimize their damage in the by-election and to minimize the time backbenchers have to kick up a fuss over the impending cuts.

This coming one day after they are deliberately interfering with the rule of law by launching an appeal over the other by elections. Cases to force them to hold those elections cannot be heard until after this appeal.

All this so they can push thru the worst cuts in the history of the state, to bail out their builder/banker/bondholder friends and stay in power for a few more weeks.

This is whats happens when you give fianna fail power, they have shown themselves this week to be self-serving gombeen triators hell bent on helping themselves and their friends first and ordinary citizen be damned.

When are people gonna wake up. Fianna Fail do not represent our best interests, never have, never will. They are a corrupt bunch of liars and traitors.

Fianna Fail have ruined this country. Ruined Us.

Remember folks

its

Fianna Fail First
Country Second

bad2dabone

Incredible.

I just hope the people remember what they've done and finish Fianna Fcking Fail for ever.

PanchoVilla

The four-year plan, imposed by the European Commission, will involve an adjustment of €15 billion, with €6 billion of that coming next year.

FYP

They just keep on packing that powder keg thinking it won't eventually explode. Idiots, the lot of them.

CliffHuxtabel

skelliser wrote: »

Seriously we are very close to living in a totalitarian regime.

Chill....jeez

Jibbs

Now I'm no conspiracy theorist type, however.......I think the governments stalling on a general election wreaks of a cover up. I think they're buying as much time as they can, at every opportunity, to cover their tracks, hide the skeletons, move their illegaly gotten monies to safety and hope that any inquests are all finished by the time they are finally turfed out on their corrupt, incompetent arses. What are Seannie Fitz and his ilk going to do if they look like they're going down and they don't have any pals in government to get them off the hook? They're going to spill the beans big time and bring down as many people as they can with them. Hopefully that tip licking cretin Bertie is first.
End of paranoid rant.

PanchoVilla

Jibbs wrote: »

Now I'm no conspiracy theorist type, however.......I think the governments stalling on a general election wreaks of a cover up. I think they're buying as much time as they can, at every opportunity, to cover their tracks, hide the skeletons, move their illegaly gotten monies to safety and hope that any inquests are all finished by the time they are finally turfed out on their corrupt, incompetent arses. What are Seannie Fitz and his ilk going to do if they look like they're going down and they don't have any pals in government to get them off the hook? They're going to spill the beans big time and bring down as many people as they can with them. Hopefully that tip licking cretin Bertie is first.
End of paranoid rant.

It's no conspiracy theory, the government regularly stalls elections to suit their own agenda. Hell, our democratically elected Taoiseach abandoned ship to avoid corruption charges and instead of holding elections to dump FF for their complete failure to run the country we got stuck with some gobshíte nobody would ever have voted for. The democratic process in this country is ridiculous to say the least and is something that really needs to be address by the next government.

Biggins

With a few days we have seen FF launch an appeal court case in order to still try an stall the running of three bye-elections, now they postpone a four year plan because that its details might tarnish their FF man in Donegal and the bye-election they were pressurised to call there.
...And thats just one week in Fianna Fail.

Welcome to the standard thinking and mentality of how things should be done by our government. Its nothing new to some of us - its still somehow amazing to others who are still playing catch-up but thankfully are more starting to see the light.

gonedrinking

As far as I now there was never any plan to publish the budget before December. This mock outrage at everything the government does or supposedly does is becoming a bit tedious at this stage, it's beyond parody now. You're going to have to try a bit harder at stirring the proles up for revolt I'm afraid.

The time for dissent is well past us at this stage, Ireland has neither the time nor money for an election. We are in hell right now, gentlemen. If we don't heel now, as a country, then we will die as individuals. We need to go to the markets for money in Jan or Feb at the latest, the uncertainty of an election would send us over the edge. Bond prices would go past 10 percent and we would default. I almost want the IMF to come in at this stage to shut people like the OP up.

Biggins

gonedrinking wrote: »

As far as I now there was never any plan to publish the budget before December.

THE GOVERNMENT has published the broad fiscal and economic assumptions that underpin its four year plan to return the national finances to a sustainable trajectory. Some important blanks have been filled in ahead of the unveiling of the plan later this month.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/1105/1224282726289.html

Following briefing at the Department of Finance this evening, Fine Gael's Finance Spokesman Michael Noonan said he understood the breakdown over each of the four Budgets will be announced during the third week of November.

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1020865.shtml

Ireland has neither the time nor money for an election.

Yes, this is the constant excuse alone coming from FF at present.
The fact that they would and will get severely trounced has not got the slightest thing to do with them not wanting to call it? :rolleyes:

I almost want the IMF to come in at this stage to shut people like the OP up.

Whats the IMF going to do? Become a mod?

gonedrinking

That's not an official statement by the government, and they have already unveiled a lot of the plan anyway

twinytwo

the only reason why they are making 6 billion euro worth of cuts is because they know they wont win the next election so they are going to leave the country in such a rag state that whoever takes over wont be able to fix it either. Then they can sit back and rabble on about how if they country and stuck with them they wouldnt be in this mess bla bla bla bla... evey single FF going back to bertie should be put against a wall and shot

Biggins

gonedrinking wrote: »

That's not an official statement by the government, and they have already unveiled a lot of the plan anyway

It was confirmed as to the original release date by a number of sources, two quick links are above.
Stop playing semantics and pettiness. The fact is that they have delayed now the reporting of the details for their own personal reasons - their desire for the country to stabilise sooner yet again has become secondary to their own personal gain.

Government plans to reveal details of its €15 billion four-year budget have been pushed back towards the end of this month and may not be unveiled until after the Donegal South West byelection.

A detailed four-year budget had been scheduled for publication in the next week or so but it emerged yesterday that the plan will not be disclosed until closer to the December budget.

The Government is hoping to minimise internal dissent by leaving as little time as possible between the publication of the plan and the budget on December 7th.

http://news.ie.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=155173002

The government had intended publishing the four-year plan in mid-November

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSWLA723720101105

Or:
* http://businessandleadership.com/economy/item/26507-government-postpone/
* http://www.financialmirror.com/News/Business_and_Finance/21739


Cowen stated this himself in his very own words at a party meeting over a year ago when he clearly stated "party first - country second - people third".

Einhard

skelliser wrote: »

Seriously we are very close to living in a totalitarian regime.

Seriously, we're not. Not in the slightest.

People really need to get a handle on themselves and reign in this kind of hyperbolic hysteria. FF have certainly made disastarous decisions over the past decade (I'd argue that most of those were made under Bertie's watch but that's beside the point), but they are not an unelected junta ruling through force. Afterall, the whole point of your post is that FF are postponing publication of the 4 year plan until after the bye-election. As far as I was aware, holding free elections was never one of the hallmarks of totalitarian regimes.

gonedrinking

Even if it was true that they are delaying giving out details, can you blame them? Making cuts are hardly going to win them votes so it's logical they delay it until after the elections. If Fg/Labour were to unveil their alternative budgets then it would be a level playing field but of course neither of them has the balls to do so.

Biggins

gonedrinking wrote: »

Even if it was true that they are delaying giving out details, can you blame them? Making cuts are hardly going to win them votes so it's logical they delay it until after the elections. If Fg/Labour were to unveil their alternative budgets then it would be a level playing field but of course neither of them has the balls to do so.

Their actions does not take away from the fact that for all the concern they are supposedly showing for our state and its welfare, they are putting it down the list of priorities now so that they might get personal gain - and while that is understandable why they are doing it, it still does NOT make it right and more so, they continue to destabilise the European trading and bond markets by side-effect of this delay!
...And all so that they can see their local Donegal man just might stand a better chance in favour of the party!

If they are so worried about bringing about stabilisation, they would have announced the plan on time and to the better satisfaction to home and foreign markets!
But no, their put their own interests first - and not the country's.

We all should know which one is more important!

SEPT 23 1989

The markets hate FF

gonedrinking

They are doing it because if they don't get this budget passed then we are finished,that's the end,there is no alternative at this stage. They are doing what is best for the country, they know they will not win the next election.

Biggins

gonedrinking wrote: »

If Fg/Labour were to unveil their alternative budgets then it would be a level playing field but of course neither of them has the balls to do so.

They are playing politics just as much as FF is - and thats clear too.

In all honesty, they might admit in back-room whispers that they don't want a general election now.
If one was to happen, the harsh measures that have to come, would be seen to be doled out by the subsequent winners - and FG/Labour don't want to do that.
(They would rather be able to say "its FF fault" and "we told ya so...")

As for they not stating their alternative plans, thats just them simply not wishing either to expose their hand and/or allow FF to use any of their proposals that might actually help!
Its party pettiness of the worst kind - at a very bad time to boot!

Biggins

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The markets hate FF

Can they be blamed for hating them in all seriousness?

Chairman Meow

Is now a good time to say "i told you so" to everyone who voted FF in the last election? Well done to everyone who voted FF, youve ****ed us for generations.

hobochris

gonedrinking wrote: »

Even if it was true that they are delaying giving out details, can you blame them? Making cuts are hardly going to win them votes so it's logical they delay it until after the elections. If Fg/Labour were to unveil their alternative budgets then it would be a level playing field but of course neither of them has the balls to do so.

The fact that they are trying to keep it from their backbenchers even makes you wonder...

Annasopra

Jibbs wrote: »

Now I'm no conspiracy theorist type, however.......I think the governments stalling on a general election wreaks of a cover up. I think they're buying as much time as they can, at every opportunity, to cover their tracks, hide the skeletons, move their illegaly gotten monies to safety and hope that any inquests are all finished by the time they are finally turfed out on their corrupt, incompetent arses. What are Seannie Fitz and his ilk going to do if they look like they're going down and they don't have any pals in government to get them off the hook? They're going to spill the beans big time and bring down as many people as they can with them. Hopefully that tip licking cretin Bertie is first.
End of paranoid rant.

Isn't there a certain amount of time ministers have to serve for a pension?

Biggins

Johnnymcg wrote: »

Isn't there a certain amount of time ministers have to serve for a pension?

4 years I believe - or so I've been told.

Annasopra

gonedrinking wrote: »

That's not an official statement by the government, and they have already unveiled a lot of the plan anyway

are you a member of FF?

gonedrinking

Johnnymcg wrote: »

are you a member of FF?

no

PanchoVilla

gonedrinking wrote: »

They are doing it because if they don't get this budget passed then we are finished,that's the end,there is no alternative at this stage. They are doing what is best for the country, they know they will not win the next election.

Oh dear. Delusion is not just a something in something.

PanchoVilla

gonedrinking wrote: »

no

In FF speak, no means yes and yes means no. We know how you operate.

Mark200

I'm sick of people pointing to everything FF does and labelling it as conspiracy or corruption. They're, possibly, delaying the release by less than 14 days. Big fucking woop. It's not going to make the slightest bit of difference to the country's economy.

jonsnow

gonedrinking wrote: »

no

Have you always given them your first preference!.Will you be voting for them in the new year elections!

gonedrinking

I've never voted and probably never will, couldn't be bothered filling in all the forms. Once you have a PPS number you should automatically be allowed to vote.

Mark200

jonsnow wrote: »

Have you always given them your first preference!.Will you be voting for them in the new year elections!

So anyone who points out facts is automatically a FF supporter?

Also, please learn the difference between a question mark and an exclamation mark. Tnx.

gonedrinking wrote: »

I've never voted and probably never will, couldn't be bothered filling in all the forms. Once you have a PPS number you should automatically be allowed to vote.

There's only one form.

http://www.checktheregister.ie/appforms/RFA2%20English%20-%20form.pdf

skelliser

gonedrinking wrote: »

They are doing it because if they don't get this budget passed then we are finished,that's the end,there is no alternative at this stage. They are doing what is best for the country, they know they will not win the next election.

Here we go!

"there is no alternative"

"the only game in town"

"we need to make the tough decisions"

jonsnow

Mark200 wrote: »

Also, please learn the difference between a question mark and an exclamation mark. Tnx.


[/url]

I know the difference Mr grammar nazi.I was typing at speed and its a typo.Seems to me like you are not averse to taking some typing shortcuts yourself.Thanks

Overheal

Is it really unbelievable, or is it precisely what you've come to expect?

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

So anyone who points out facts is automatically a FF supporter?f

You weren't pointing out facts originally, you were trying to share your opinion.
And as for those words...

Mark200 wrote: »

I'm sick of people pointing to everything FF does and labelling it as conspiracy or corruption. They're, possibly, delaying the release by less than 14 days. Big fucking woop. It's not going to make the slightest bit of difference to the country's economy.

* Its become to the norm' by hook or crook, to delay, avoid and/or block any attempts by anyone else to see that a bye-election can be called.

* They are not "possibly delaying it by 14 days" they actually ARE - and by more days if they can help it.

* As for "it's not going to make the slightest bit of difference to the country" - please pick up a phone and tell the rest of Europe that FF style spin as they look at their investment/loan bonds, etc and see that rather than show confirmation of incoming stability, FF have decided to throw the announcement of formulated plans into the air, for the sake of a chance of clawing back a seat in a local bye-election.
Seven days never mind fourteen or more can make a big fcuking difference!

Their latest double antics this week alone would be shocking under normal safe economic circumstances - but as its FF, its become the normal standard type of practise any time of the year and under any economic conditions, good or bad!

Mark200

jonsnow wrote: »

I know the difference Mr grammar nazi.I was typing at speed and its a typo.Seems to me like you are not averse to taking some typing shortcuts yourself.Thanks

Jesus, I was making fun of your mistake by saying 'Tnx'.

Biggins wrote: »

You weren't pointing out facts originally, you were trying to share your opinion.
And as for those words...

I hadn't been called a FF supporter, someone who was pointing out the fact that the source is not an official Government statement was.

Biggins wrote: »

You weren't pointing out facts originally, you were trying to share your opinion.
And as for those words...



* Its become to the norm' by hook or crook, to delay, avoid and/or block any attempts by anyone else to see that a bye-election can be called.

* They are not "possibly delaying it by 14 days" they actually ARE - and by more days if they can help it.

* As for "it's not going to make the slightest bit of difference to the country" - please pick up a phone and tell the rest of Europe that FF style spin as they look at their investment/loan bonds, etc and see that rather than show confirmation of incoming stability, FF have decided to throw the announcement of formulated plans into the air, for the sake of a chance of clawing back a seat in a local bye-election.
Seven days never mind fourteen or more can make a big fcuking difference!

Their latest double antics this week alone would be shocking under normal safe economic circumstances - but as its FF, its become the normal standard type of practise any time of the year and under any economic conditions, good or bad!

Ireland has cancelled all bonds auctions until January, so unless they delay the announcement of their plans until 3 weeks after the budget then, no, it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference.

If this whole bye-election thing wasn't going on and they still postponed the announcement, people would find something equally scandalous to blame the postponement on.

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

Ireland has cancelled all bonds auctions until January, so unless they delay the announcement of their plans until 3 weeks after the budget then, no, it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference.

Sorry but in order to re-issue bonds, they want to do so when they have been able to show previously that there has been a constant sustainable increase in confidence in the market as regards Irish bonds.
Thats why even this evening they (the government and the media) are still right now concerned with the seven point mark of the bonds already issued. They are going up and down like a yo-yo (more up than down).
Their other efforts at not helping to stabilise the market in confidence, does us no good at all.

Mark200 wrote: »

If this whole bye-election thing wasn't going on and they still postponed the announcement, people would find something equally scandalous to blame the postponement on.

I sure they might, welcome to people being allowed to speak realisably freely and to be wrong some times.
We all have brains to be able to decide individually if they are right or wrong!

Mark200

Biggins wrote: »

Sorry but in order to re-issue bonds, they want to do so when they have been able to show previously that there has been a constant sustainable increase in confidence in the market as regards Irish bonds.
Thats why even this evening they (the government and the media) are still right now concerned with the seven point mark of the bonds already issues. they are going up and down like a yo-yo (more up than down).
Their other efforts at not helping to stabilise the market in confidence, does us no good at all.

So it's better for the bond markets if the Government puts out a bad, rushed plan than a good delayed plan?

You know if people were all that concerned about the stabilisation of bonds then they'd know that the less protests and uproar there is, the more stable and willing the country looks and the more confidence that would inspire in investors that we can actually put together a tough plan to reduce the deficit.

Biggins wrote: »

I sure they might, welcome to people being allowed to speak realisably freely and to be wrong some times.
We all have brains to be able to decide individually if they are right or wrong!

I don't accept when someone tries to hide their stupidity behind their right to be stupid.

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

So it's better for the bond markets if the Government puts out a bad, rushed plan than a good delayed plan?

The plan has already been drawn up and details of it are being submitted to the Eu already! So then "rushed" as you make out? No.

Mark200 wrote: »

...the more stable and willing the country looks and the more confidence that would inspire in investors that we can actually put together a tough plan to reduce the deficit.

...And that plan had been drawn up. And what do we do to increase stabilisation? We cancel the publishing of plans - possibly for the sake of self party interest in a bye-election! Yes, thats going to stabilise things great!

Mark200 wrote: »

I don't accept when someone tries to hide their stupidity behind their right to be stupid.

Thats your right. You also have the right too to ignore their postings and go on your way hopefully more content in a knowledge that you feel is more correct.

Mark200

Biggins wrote: »

The plan has already been drawn up and details of it are being submitted to the Eu already! So then "rushed" as you make out? No.


...And that plan had been drawn up. And what do we do to increase stabilisation? We cancel the publishing of plans - possibly for the sake of self party interest in a bye-election! Yes, thats going to stabilise things great!

I'd love to know where you've heard that the plan has been finalised. The plan shouldn't be released until it is.

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

I'd love to know where you've heard that the plan has been finalised. The plan shouldn't be released until it is.

The plan is presently being discussed within close FF circles and amid the EU heads.
There alone has been enough talk about the details by Jean-Claude Trichet, President of the European Central Bank, and Brian Lenihan. This is well known again alone, in economic circles.
In the meanwhile generalities are being allowed to leak out to try soften the blow of budget day. Its a now standard practise to do this to be honest, by FF.

I don't want to keep annoying you with my thoughts and possible crap, so we will just have to agree to disagree.

skelliser

Mark200 wrote: »

Ireland has cancelled all bonds auctions until January, so unless they delay the announcement of their plans until 3 weeks after the budget then, no, it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference.

You couldnt be more wrong.

Have you noticed that the spread on our bonds is close to 8% this week. Thats the same figure Greece where at when they went tits up.
And this is after the markets saw our announcement of the 6 billion budget.
The markets have no confidence in the gov.
This nonsense only adds to our problems. Holding of the issuing of the 4 year plan only adds to the nerves in the markets.

But you are right. None of this matters, our bonds are turkeys, the country is ****ed.
The best we can do is minimize the damage and this political charade isnt helping!

gonedrinking

Government aiming to publish plans Mid November:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1105/sfa-business.html

Skelliser and Biggins I think you both owe everyone a big apology.

kincsem

gonedrinking wrote: »

Government aiming to publish plans Mid November:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1105/sfa-business.html

Skelliser and Biggins I think you both owe everyone a big apology.

Apologise to Fianna Fail? There will be massive celebrations when they are forced to have an election, and we never see them again.

skelliser

and you believe what rte/pravda report.

and he said they are "trying" to have it done by mid-november.
Leaves plenty of room to drag it out.

oh, btw they have no legal right or mandate to even have a 4 year plan!

Mark200

skelliser wrote: »

and you believe what rte/pravda report.

Would you question their credibility if the report said that they were delaying the announcement for a month? I somehow doubt it.