407 problem

blahblah06

Hi lads,

Weird problem

Was driving the pug yesterday morning when the car started to shudder and 50 yards down the road the low oil pressure warning came on the dash.
The car will now not start but does try to turn over but jus won't kick in.

Mechanic said it's not the turbo, shafts in engine are ok but last chance is the oil pump other then that could be a new engine

Anyone any suggestions

Row

Did your mechanic check to see if the timing is o.k....?
http://www.407owners.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1849
Ron.

Ciaranmooney10

Same problem with my 407. I'll need to check oil pump as have ruled out other causes. Bottom line...the car is a pig and I should never have bought it.

Row

Ciaranmooney10 wrote: »

Same problem with my 407. I'll need to check oil pump as have ruled out other causes. Bottom line...the car is a pig and I should never have bought it.

This info is based on the 1.6 hdi (Dv6) engine.


Here is some info on how regular servicing and using the correct oil is so critical on the Dv6 (1.6hdi) Engines.
I Have seen these engines running up 170k (Mls) without any issues.

This is well worth a read.


The PSA 1.6HDi, DV6TED4 engine is a highly sophisticated low emission, high power diesel unit. It is used in many different applications; Citroen, Ford, Mazda, Mini, Peugeot and Volvo.
Due to the engine being clean and powerful, it is designed to operate at high temperatures, which demands the very best lubricants. These lubricants must be maintained in peak condition and PSA have fitted an in-line oil filter to the turbo and an integral oil cooler/oil filter to this engine to ensure this. However there is a drawback to this; reports in the field indicate that if the engine has been operated with the oil level below normal limits, this may potentially cause a high concentration of carbon in the oil. This may then lead to blockage of the in-line filter, oil cooler and main oil filter, which will eventually bring on premature turbo failure. The vacuum pump may also suffer from this same type of contamination.
However, due to its high operating speeds (230,000 revs per minute) the turbo will usually be the first to show signs of damage. This can happen from 30,000 miles onwards if the oil level and correct oil change intervals/procedure have not been adhered to.
Experience to date suggests that the carbon build up in this application is particularly difficult to remove.
To try to eliminate the potential for further turbo failure, the following MUST be undertaken by the garage, in addition to the normal recommended turbo fitting instructions:

• TURBO OIL FEED PIPE & BANJO BOLTS MUST BE CHANGED.
• OIL PUMP SHOULD BE REMOVED AND CHECKED.
• SUMP MUST BE REMOVED AND OIL STRAINER (PICK UP) SHOULD BE CLEANED/REPLACED BEFORE RE-FITTING NEW TURBO TO REMOVE RESIDUAL CARBON/SLUDGE BUILD UP.
• OIL COOLER AND FILTER ASSEMBLY SHOULD BE REMOVED AND CLEANED.
• REMOVE CHARGE AIR COOLER, DRAIN OFF ANY OIL INSIDE AND CLEAN THOROUGHLY.
• CHECK AND CLEAN ALL INLET AND OUTLET HOSES.
• IF OIL HAS LEAKED FROM PREVIOUSLY DAMAGED TURBO OR ENGINE INTO EXHAUST, CHECK EXHAUST SYSTEM FOR CONTAMINATION/BLOCKAGE (CATALYST, DPF etc.)
• REMOVE BRAKE VACUUM PUMP TO CHECK FOR DEBRIS/CARBON AND CLEAN AS NECESSARY.
• FIT NEW OIL FILTER AND OIL.
• CHECK FUEL INJECTOR GASKETS ARE NOT BURNT OR COMPROMISED. REPLACE AS NECESSARY
• OIL FLOW MUST BE CHECKED:
1. FIT TURBO TO ENGINE LEAVING OIL RETURN PIPE OFF
2. INSTALL A LONGER OIL RETURN LINE AND FEED INTO SUITABLE CONTAINER
3. START ENGINE AND IDLE FOR 60 SECONDS, THEN SWITCH OFF ENGINE
4. MEASURE VOLUME OF OIL IN CONTAINER - 60 SECONDS OF IDLE SHOULD PRODUCE AT LEAST 0.3 LITRES OF OIL.
5. REPEAT TEST TWO OR THREE TIMES TO CONFIRM OIL FLOW IS CORRECT
6. DURING THIS TEST, DO NOT ALLOW ENGINE TO RUN BELOW MINIMUM OIL LEVEL!!
7. VEHICLE SHOULD BE DRIVEN 20 to 30 MILES THEN THE OIL/FILTER REPLACED AGAIN.

Another thing a peugeot mechanic was telling me is that they usally remove the strainer (altogether) in the turbo feed pipe behind the dpf.



OIL CHANGE PROCEDURE ON ALL DV6 ENGINES

It is necessary to follow a specific oil change procedure on all DV6 and DV6U engines so as to ensure that no used oil remains to mix with the new oil.

The following method must be used:

• The engine oil temperature must be at least 50°C :
- the engine oil temperature is considered to be at 50°C when the water temperature indicator is between 80°C and 90°C or the cooling fan has cut in
• ensure that the vehicle is level (side to side and fore and aft)
• remove the oil filter to allow the circuit to drain completely
• remove the oil filler cap and the dipstick
• remove the drain plug
• allow the oil to drain by gravity for at least 10 minutes (DO NOT USE SUCTION METHODS)
• fit a new oil filter
• refit the drain plug with a new sealing washer
• fill the engine with quantity of oil recommended for the engine
• refit the oil filler cap and the dipstick
• run the engine at idle until the oil pressure warning lamp goes out (about 1 minute)
• wait 5 minutes
• check the oil level using the dipstick: the level should be as close as possible to, but not exceeding the maximum mark (1) so as to be between (1) and (3)

For information, the lower mark (2) = Min (0%) the upper mark (1) = Max (100%) the intermediate mark (3) = ¾
4 of 4

CONSEQUENCES OF NOT KEEPING TO THE OIL CHANGE INTERVALS

If the customer does not have the oil changed at the recommended intervals, the oil will become excessively polluted and will no longer ensure the correct lubrication of the engine. One of the first consequences is inadequate lubrication of the turbocharger bearings causing a failure which is repeated after the turbocharger is replaced. Subsequent symptoms resulting from the reduced level of lubrication will be a noisy engine and then destruction of the engine.

We remind you that if the customer does not keep to the servicing intervals recommended in the Maintenance and Guarantee Guide, the customer will be responsible for the durability of the mechanical parts of the engine.
In this case, the any related repairs needed are not covered by the new vehicle warranty.

CONSEQUENCES OF NOT FOLLOWING THE OIL CHANGE PROCEDURE

If the oil changes are not done as described above, all deposits of old oil will not be removed and will very quickly pollute the new oil, accelerating the ageing of the oil in the engine lubrication circuit (even causing the oil to congeal).

The consequences for the engine are the same as if the oil change intervals are not observed. As a result, any related repairs needed are not covered under the new vehicle warranty.


Quote from an independent garage....
There are big problems with poor oil change routines on 1.6HDi's causing oil clogging in cylinder head galleries, turbo supply lubrication pipes etc which is the cause for repeated turbo failure.

When replacing a failed turbo it is imperitive to replace the oil supply/return pipes. You also need to remove the sump and check the gauze on on the pump for any blockages.

Finally a good check so see if there is serious internal blockages, remove the brake vacuum pump - there's a little gauze inside that. If that has signs of blockage then you've got some serious internal clogging going on.

We've had a brand new turbo literally fail within 100 mile from the impellor seizing up and the nut which secures it on the shaft coming undone and wedging in the fan blades. This particular one was an extreme case and ended up having a new engine!

pajo1981

Ciaranmooney10 wrote: »

Same problem with my 407. I'll need to check oil pump as have ruled out other causes. Bottom line...the car is a pig and I should never have bought it.

Posts : 1
Credibility : 0

cadaliac

@ Row - this will indicate just how important it is to keep the oil changes on schedule. However, are all Peugeot garages armed with this info? I would imagine so.
In that case - the FPSH would be critical when buying second hand.
Also, I can't help but think that while this is the correct procedure to change oil in the 1.6 Hdi, it must also follow through for the 2.0 Hdi also? In fact it should be the same for all modern diesels, but I seriously doubt that all modern diesels get this treatment.

Zubeneschamali

cadaliac wrote: »

I seriously doubt that all modern diesels get this treatment.

There's nothing weird about the oil change procedure described above. It just says change the oil properly and on schedule.

Since the schedule these days is usually 20,000 Km, this shouldn't be a big burden on owners.

Row

cadaliac wrote: »

@ Row - this will indicate just how important it is to keep the oil changes on schedule. However, are all Peugeot garages armed with this info? I would imagine so.

Peugeot should be well aware...but they haven't shortend there service intervals.:rolleyes:

Seeing that this engine is been used on all of the newer Peugeots,Citroens etc i'm thinking these problems will be recurring in the future if Owners/Garages don't follow the above recommendations....:eek:

cadaliac wrote: »

I can't help but think that while this is the correct procedure to change oil in the 1.6 Hdi,
it must also follow through for the 2.0 Hdi also?

This problem dosent seem to be as common on the 2.0 hdi's...Its an older and more proven engine.
The fact that the 1.6 hdi (Dv6) engine only has a 3.7 litre oil capacity and
if that level drops to 2.8 litres over long service intervals then that 2.8 litres
will have to do alot of work to maintain the engines high demands.

For the sake of a few extra few quid i have always serviced my cars well within there recommended service intervals and touch wood never had any engine problems....:)