Connacht players in bad physical shape, this down to the training? Or lack thereof?

forlorndonkey

EG Sean Cronin is a stone or two overweight, Shane Horgan was routinely driving four or five of them back 10 yards a few weeks back. Are they not training properly or what? As professionals the least you'd expect is they'd in shape. I'm going to edit this post I made later into my first one here as it knocks a couple of retorts on the head:

Risteard wrote: »

How's Cronin a stone or two overweight? He's a front row forward ffs and it's not as if he slouches around the pitch, in fact he could probably outpace some backrows.

He's overweight because he has a big belly hanging off him, which might have been acceptable ten years ago but not anymore.

Yes he's very fast but first he could be even faster, second he has no agility or stepping ability because once he gets going he can't shift that momentum, and third he's far too slow off the mark which again is a result of being fat. Just look at the improvement losing just a stone made to O driscoll's form between 2008 and 2009. Suddenly he was a step faster and and stepping by players again. And look at how France has dealt with Julian Bastereud's failure to achieve his potential by not losing fat. They dropped him and told him to get his arse in gear before the World Cup.

I'm not just talking about Sean Cronin though, and I'm not just talking about stamina and fat, they're weak. They invariably fail to gain yards and like I said It was ridiculous how Shane Horgan was made to look like Jonah Lomu a few weeks back, four or five of them at a time bouncing off him. Maybe they don't have the backs do any weights work or maybe the weight work they're doing isn't functional and more focused on the beach muscles, I don't know, but there's something wrong there.

B0X

Cronin is overweight? Have you got something against him? I noticed you were calling him fat in another thread too.

irishbucsfan

This is ridiculous

Risteard

How's Cronin a stone or two overweight? He's a front row forward ffs and it's not as if he slouches around the pitch, in fact he could probably outpace some backrows.

Luckycharm

forlorndonkey wrote: »

EG Sean Cronin is a stone or two overweight, Shane Horgan was routinely driving four or five of them back 10 yards a few weeks back. Are they not training properly or what? As professionals the least you'd expect is they'd in shape.

This is based on what? Unlike previous seasons it has pretty much been the same starting team every week so if they were that unfit they would have had to rotate more.
I know for a fact they had a really tough preseason - 3 training sessions a day first one starting at 6.45am.

handsomecake

and to think ive been accused of being a troll.......:cool:

Shelflife

Nice one donkey, you managed to catch 4 on your fishing trip

forlorndonkey

Risteard wrote: »

How's Cronin a stone or two overweight? He's a front row forward ffs and it's not as if he slouches around the pitch, in fact he could probably outpace some backrows.

He's overweight because he has a big belly on him, which migt have been acceptable ten years ago but not anymore.

Yes he's very fast but first he could be even faster, second he has no agility or stepping ability because once he gets going he can't shift that momentum, and third he's far too slow off the mark which again is a result of being fat. Just look at the improvement losing just a stone made to O driscoll's form between 2008 and 2009. Suddenly he was a step faster and and stepping by players again. And look at how France has dealt with Julian Bastereud's failure to achieve his potential by not losing fat. They dropped him and told him to get his arse in gear before the World Cup.

I'm not just talking about Sean Cronin though, and I'm not just talking about stamina and fat, they're weak. They invariably fail to gain yards and like I said It was ridiculous how Shane Horgan was made to look like Jonah Lomu a few weeks back, four or five of them at a time bouncing off him. Maybe they don't have the backs do any weights work or maybe the weight work they're doing isn't functional, I don't know, but there's something wrong there.

handsomecake

Julian Bastereud's


fail

Risteard

forlorndonkey wrote: »

He's overweight because he has a big belly on him, which migt have been acceptable ten years ago but not anymore.

Yes he's very fast but first he could be even faster, second he has no agility or stepping ability because once he gets going he can't shift that momentum, and third he's far too slow off the mark which again is a result of being fat. Just look at the improvement losing just a stone made to O driscoll's form between 2008 and 2009. Suddenly he was a step faster and and stepping by players again. And look at how France has dealt with Julian Bastereud's failure to achieve his potential by not losing fat. They dropped him and told him to get his arse in gear before the World Cup.

I'm not just talking about Sean Cronin though, and I'm not just talking about stamina and fat, they're weak. They invariably fail to gain yards and like I said It was ridiculous how Shane Horgan was made to look like Jonah Lomu a few weeks back, four or five of them at a time bouncing off him. Maybe they don't have the backs do any weights work or maybe the weight work they're doing isn't functional, I don't know, but there's something wrong there.

Like I said he's a front row forward, not a back. O'Driscoll and Bastarued are supposed to be able to side step and do all of that, it's not a hookers job. His main job is to clear out rucks, scrummage and throw the ball into the lineout. Anything extra is a bonus.

I was only commenting on Cronin anyway, haven't seen too much of Connacht save for the Leinster game, and Horgan is a big guy.

forlorndonkey

Risteard wrote: »

Like I said he's a front row forward, not a back. O'Driscoll and Bastarued are supposed to be able to side step and do all of that, it's not a hookers job. His main job is to clear out rucks, scrummage and throw the ball into the lineout. Anything extra is a bonus.

I was only commenting on Cronin anyway, haven't seen too much of Connacht save for the Leinster game, and Horgan is a big guy.

He's not a bloody prop! POC and DOC aren't carting the equivalent of sacks of potatoes round the field are they? It's completely unacceptable for a professional player to be in that kind of condition, not least because his country might well be relying on him to be at his absolute peak in the World Cup.

Shane Horgan is a big guy, but Jonah Lomu he is not. It should take 2 players at most to stop him, what we saw a few weeks ago was bordering on the ridiculous.

Risteard

forlorndonkey wrote: »

He's not a bloody prop! POC and DOC aren't carting the equivalent of sacks of potatoes round the field are they? It's completely unacceptable for a professional player to be in that kind of condition, not least because his country might well be relying on him to be at his absolute peak in the World Cup.

Shane Horgan is a big guy, but Jonah Lomu he is not. It should take 2 players at most to stop him, what we saw a few weeks ago was bordering on the ridiculous.

O.K. you think he's overwight, I disagree. He's one of the most dynamic ball carriers in Ireland. So I fail to see how is weight is a problem if he's capable of making bursts and playing lots of mathces in a row, he's obviously fit.

I'm just going to leave it that because you're obviously not going to change you're mind.

JustinDee

forlorndonkey wrote: »

I don't know

Exactly.

forlorndonkey

Risteard wrote: »

O.K. you think he's overwight, I disagree. He's one of the most dynamic ball carriers in Ireland. So I fail to see how is weight is a problem if he's capable of making bursts and playing lots of mathces in a row, he's obviously fit.

I'm just going to leave it that because you're obviously not going to change you're mind.

If you have a belly hanging off you then by definition you're fat and by definition not as mobile as you could be and should be.

One thing he and the rest of the Connacht squad do have a lot of is stamina I would have no argument there. The problem is they're weak, and in Sean Cronin's case fat.

You're entitled to your opinion.

forlorndonkey

JustinDee wrote: »

Exactly.

Good man yourself taking me out of context, you must work for one of the broadsheets

its_phil

Hes a kilo lighter than Best,hes unbelivably quick over 10 metres and if he was a fat unfit hooker do you think kidney would select him?have you seen any other connacht games over the last year other than leinster game?clearly not:mad:

forlorndonkey

its_phil wrote: »

Hes a kilo lighter than Best,hes unbelivably quick over 10 metres and if he was a fat unfit hooker do you think kidney would select him?have you seen any other connacht games over the last year other than leinster game?clearly not:mad:

Never mind what he weighs compared to Best, different people have different frames, heights, body compositions etc, for instance Goerge Hook is the same height and weight as POC, but it wouldn't make much sense comparing the two would it?

In my opinion he is a frighteningly talented athlete, but his fatness is holding him back. The reason he's getting games for Ireland is because even operating at 75% due to his fatness he is a phenomenal talent. He still owes it to his contract to get his arse into gear though.

JustinDee

forlorndonkey wrote: »

Never mind the weight, different people have different frames, heights, body compositions etc, for instance Goerge Hook is the same height and weight as POC, but it wouldn't make much sense comparing the too would it?

Paul O'Connell is 6"6.
George Hook is not.

So no, not much sense at all.

irishbucsfan

JustinDee wrote: »

Paul O'Connell is 6"6.
George Hook is not.

So no, not much sense at all.

Hook is the same height as POC

forlorndonkey

JustinDee wrote: »

Paul O'Connell is 6"6.
George Hook is not.

So no, not much sense at all.

That's irrelevant, the point is that going by height and weight alone George Hook has the stats of an international lock. The point is that if that weight is made up of fat then it's just dead weight that has to be carried around. But if you think George Hook should be playing for Ireland you're entitled to your opinion

JustinDee

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Hook is the same height as POC

No he isn't. He is 6"3 tops.
He is shorter than Tom McGurk who is 6"5.

its_phil

forlorndonkey wrote: »

The reason he's getting games for Ireland is because even operating at 75% due to his fatness he is a phenomenal talent. He still owes it to his contract to get his arse into gear though.

How many Connacht games have you seen this year? I am really interested because Cronin has been brilliant once again and if you think he's not playing to 100% then thats foolish. He's probably the best supporting runner from the forwards Connacht have and a better ball carrier than flannery and best.

JustinDee

forlorndonkey wrote: »

That's irrelevant, the point is that going by height and weight alone George Hook has the stats of an international lock. The point is that if that weight is made up of fat then it's just dead weight that has to be carried around. But if you think George Hook should be playing for Ireland you're entitled to your opinion

Don't be stupid.
Its not irrelevant at all. You were comparing two people incorrectly as having similar height and weight.

irishbucsfan

JustinDee wrote: »

No he isn't. He is 6"3 tops.
He is shorter than Tom McGurk who is 6"5.

Yes you're right, got mixed up between McGurk and Hook's heights.

Maybe it's because I look up to Hook so much...

forlorndonkey

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Hook is the same height as POC

It doesn't even matter either way...

I was just trying to explain a simple concept, people can be 'big' fat guys or 'big' muscular guys and in either case they'll be heavy, you just need to use a bit of critical thinking and make sure you aren't comparing apples to oranges.

JustinDee

forlorndonkey wrote: »

It's obviously very important to this fella to be 'right' about something so I think we're better off just letting him have this one

I think being 'right' tends to be quite important if you're attempting to get a point across.

forlorndonkey

JustinDee wrote: »

I think being 'right' tends to be quite important if you're attempting to get a point across.

You understand this trivial point you're devoting so much attention to is complete irrelevant for the purposes of both the context the post it was made in and this thread as a whole right? I was just trying to explain that two people can weigh the same and one can be much fatter than the other. The example doesn't matter.

I don't know what your problem is but it seems like you have nothing constructive to say, your contribution to the discussion is just to flit in with bitchy comments. Oneupmanship I think it's called.

its_phil

I heard George Hook was gonna be on the cover of Men's Health...:D

forlorndonkey

JustinDee wrote: »

Don't be stupid.
Its not irrelevant at all. You were comparing two people incorrectly as having similar height and weight.

But the example being wrong doesn't matter. I'm still right in saying that two people can weigh the same and have very different body compositions. So it's a completely trivial point.

forlorndonkey

its_phil wrote: »

How many Connacht games have you seen this year? I am really interested because Cronin has been brilliant once again and if you think he's not playing to 100% then thats foolish. He's probably the best supporting runner from the forwards Connacht have and a better ball carrier than flannery and best.

Yeah but if he wasn't fat he would be better. It's undeniable. If BOD put a stone of fat back on again he'd still be a brilliant player by any standard, but he wouldn't be as good as *he* could or should be.

its_phil

You still have'nt answered my question.How many games have you seen?

forlorndonkey

its_phil wrote: »

You still have'nt answered my question.How many games have you seen?

That's because I'm not interested in going off on an irrelevant tangent. All that matters is he's fat. If he has a belly he's fat, if he's fat he isn't as mobile as he could be, if he isn't as mobile as he could be he isn't the player he should be.

mareegoo

forlorndonkey wrote: »

Yeah but if he wasn't fat he would be better. It's undeniable. If BOD put a stone of fat back on again he'd still be a brilliant player by any standard, but he wouldn't be as good as *he* could or should be.

Forlorndonkey...been reading the thread...have you been let out of a madhouse recently ?

what do you want cronin to lose 2 stone and then we get abosultely murdered in the scums....

they did speed tests at the start of pre-season with connacht and cronin was up there with the backs...nuff said....

forlorndonkey

mareegoo wrote: »

Forlorndonkey...been reading the thread...have you been let out of a madhouse recently ?

what do you want cronin to lose 2 stone and then we get abosultely murdered in the scums....

they did speed tests at the start of pre-season with connacht and cronin was up there with the backs...nuff said....

The fat is dead weight, it's as much of an impediment for the props to push forward as it is for the other scrum to push back. He isn't a prop, he has no excuse. And of course he's fast, if Shane Williams put on a stone he'd still be fast, but like I said in my first post, he could and should be faster, because he's fat he has no step, he's slow off the mark.

phog

I cant get over this thread is still open. :eek:

its_phil

its_phil wrote: »

You still have'nt answered my question.How many games have you seen?

forlorndonkey wrote: »

That's because I'm not interested in going off on an irrelevant tangent. All that matters is he's fat. If he has a belly he's fat, if he's fat he isn't as mobile as he could be, if he isn't as mobile as he could be he isn't the player he should be.

Cronin is playing great this year,he has great speed over 10m and did u ever consider that if he lost that weight he would'nt be able to break gain line as well. But then again seen as your opinion is on just one match,that makes sense. He does his job and does it great,and I for one don't think he's fat. He's a strong paced hooker who Connacht fans are very proud to have and he's improved every season.

forlorndonkey

phog wrote: »

I cant get over this thread is still open. :eek:

Alright look, the Connacht team as a whole were being driven back like children by Leinster, isn't that a fact? Sean Cronin has a belly, is that not a fact? Yes they all have good stamina, but there is clearly something wrong with the physical conditioning there. It's like watching a team from the late 90's or something.

forlorndonkey

its_phil wrote: »

Cronin is playing great this year,he has great speed over 10m and did u ever consider that if he lost that weight he would'nt be able to break gain line as well.

Of course he would, increase in speed compensates for the decrease in weight and the collision works out the same. Difference is he'd have a step and be much faster in general, and far quicker off the mark.

But then again seen as your opinion is on just one match,that makes sense.

It isn't but if it was I'd still be right, if you have abelly hanging off you then you're fat.

He's a strong paced hooker who Connacht fans are very proud to have and he's improved every season.

Not denying any of that, he should just be better, he owes it to everyone, not least himself and his fans like you to be the best player he can possibly be.

its_phil

forlorndonkey wrote: »

Of course he would, increase in speed compensates for the decrease in weight and the collision works out the same. Difference is he'd have a step and be much faster in general, and far quicker off the mark. It isn't but if it was I'd still be right, if you have abelly hanging off you then you're fat. Not denying any of that, he should just be better, he owes it to everyone, not least himself and his fans like you to be the best player he can possibly be.

I'm done. Great rugby player who is playing great the way he is.

cuculainn

forlorndonkey wrote: »

That's because I'm not interested in going off on an irrelevant tangent. All that matters is he's fat. If he has a belly he's fat, if he's fat he isn't as mobile as he could be, if he isn't as mobile as he could be he isn't the player he should be.

Keith Wood had a belly...So had jockey wilson......two of the best athletes ever to grace a pitch/ocke