Garda legal or illegal actions?

dillo2k10

Was this legal or illegal?

I am currently arguing on this form : http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056079006&page=15
that what the garda done was illegal in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-REt8kCjCRo&feature=player_embedded#

MagicSean

dillo2k10 wrote: »

Was this legal or illegal?

I am currently arguing on this form : http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056079006&page=15
that what the garda done was illegal in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-REt8kCjCRo&feature=player_embedded#

To what action are you referring?

dillo2k10

k_mac wrote: »

To what action are you referring?

The girl Who was sitting down, protesting peacefully being repeatedly hit with a batten by the guards.

dermot_sheehan

The gardai are entitled to use reasonable force to disperse and quell a riot or to effect an arrest.

Helix

gabhain7 wrote: »

The gardai are entitled to use reasonable force to disperse and quell a riot or to effect an arrest.

is it reasonable force to beat a girl who was sitting down in the street? didnt see a riot in that video tbh

dillo2k10

gabhain7 wrote: »

The gardai are entitled to use reasonable force to disperse and quell a riot or to effect an arrest.

I didnt think that it would be considered reasonable force, as she was not acting violently, she was sitting down during a peaceful protest. They were not trying to arrest her as they had no reason to, they simply hit her over the head a few times.

There were riots nearby, however their group was clearly sitting down in a peaceful protest.

Our man in Havana

They refused to move when requested by the Gardaí. Totally justified in my opinion.

dillo2k10

Haddockman wrote: »

They refused to move when requested by the Gardaí. Totally justified in my opinion.

But if they werent doing anything illegal then they should not have had to move?

Our man in Havana

Obstruction of a highway. Breach of the public order act. Take your pick.

dillo2k10

Haddockman wrote: »

Obstruction of a highway. Breach of the public order act. Take your pick.

The road was already closed and its not a highway.
What exactly did they do to breach the public order act?

dermot_sheehan

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0008.html#zza2y1994s8

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0009.html#zza2y1994s9

hondasam

dillo2k10 wrote: »

Was this legal or illegal?

I am currently arguing on this form : http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056079006&page=15
that what the garda done was illegal in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-REt8kCjCRo&feature=player_embedded#

If all the students went there for a peaceful protest there would be no need for such a high garda presence. There is usually other groups who join in just to cause trouble. If gardai direct you to move ln you are obliged to comply. How did the protest get out of control?

Iron Hide

Any person who, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, wilfully prevents or interrupts the free passage of any person or vehicle in any public place shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £200.

Doesn't say anything about being bashed on the head with a baton, or this "reasonable force" that you mention Gabhain.

delta_bravo

Why in all of these protest does the most infirmed person they have seem to get injured? The poster made sure to specify that the person struck was a woman. I remember the similar shell to sea protest where there were dozens of men having a small riot and suddenly in the mix a pregnant woman is "brutally savaged" by the Gardai or a pensioner is attacked. All those people were in breach of the peace, most likely refusing to disperse.

As a student who did not attend this protest I feel this day did far more damage to the free fees argument than good.

dermot_sheehan

Iron Hide wrote: »

Doesn't say anything about being bashed on the head with a baton, or this "reasonable force" that you mention Gabhain.

:rolleyes:


s. 18 Non Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0018.html#sec18

18.—(1) The use of force by a person for any of the following purposes, if only such as is reasonable in the circumstances as he or she believes them to be, does not constitute an offence—
(a) to protect himself or herself or a member of the family of that person or another from injury, assault or detention caused by a criminal act; or
(b) to protect himself or herself or (with the authority of that other) another from trespass to the person; or
(c) to protect his or her property from appropriation, destruction or damage caused by a criminal act or from trespass or infringement; or
(d) to protect property belonging to another from appropriation, destruction or damage caused by a criminal act or (with the authority of that other) from trespass or infringement; or
(e) to prevent crime or a breach of the peace.
(2) “use of force” in subsection (1) is defined and extended by section 20 .
(3) For the purposes of this section an act involves a “crime” or is “criminal” although the person committing it, if charged with an offence in respect of it, would be acquitted on the ground that—
(a) he or she was under 7 years of age; or
(b) he or she acted under duress, whether by threats or of circumstances; or
(c) his or her act was involuntary; or
(d) he or she was in a state of intoxication; or
(e) he or she was insane, so as not to be responsible, according to law, for the act.
(4) The references in subsection (1) to protecting a person and property from anything include protecting the person or property from its continuing; and the reference to preventing crime or a breach of the peace shall be similarly construed.
(5) For the purposes of this section the question whether the act against which force is used is of a kind mentioned in any of the paragraphs (a) to (e) of subsection (1) shall be determined according to the circumstances as the person using the force believes them to be.
(6) Notwithstanding subsection (1), a person who believes circumstances to exist which would justify or excuse the use of force under that subsection has no defence if he or she knows that the force is used against a member of the Garda Síochána acting in the course of the member's duty or a person so assisting such member, unless he or she believes the force to be immediately necessary to prevent harm to himself or herself or another.
(7) The defence provided by this section does not apply to a person who causes conduct or a state of affairs with a view to using force to resist or terminate it:
But the defence may apply although the occasion for the use of force arises only because the person does something he or she may lawfully do, knowing that such an occasion will arise.
(8) Property shall be treated for the purposes of subsection (1) (c) and (d) as belonging to any person—
(a) having the custody or control of it;
(b) having in it any proprietary right or interest (not being an equitable interest arising only from an agreement to transfer or grant an interest); or
(c) having a charge on it;
and where property is subject to a trust, the persons to whom it belongs shall be treated as including any person having a right to enforce the trust.
Property of a corporation sole shall be treated for the purposes of the aforesaid provisions as belonging to the corporation notwithstanding a vacancy in the corporation.

s. 9 of the 1994 act makes obstruction a crime. In any case it would constitute a breach of the peace.

delta_bravo

Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994




Riot.

14.—(1) Where—


( a ) 12 or more persons who are present together at any place (whether that place is a public place or a private place or both) use or threaten to use unlawful violence for a common purpose, and


( b ) the conduct of those persons, taken together, is such as would cause a person of reasonable firmness present at that place to fear for his or another person's safety,


then, each of the persons using unlawful violence for the common purpose shall be guilty of the offence of riot.


(2) For the purposes of this section—


( a ) it shall be immaterial whether or not the 12 or more persons use or threaten to use unlawful violence simultaneously at any place;


( b ) the common purpose may be inferred from conduct;


( c ) no person of reasonable firmness need actually be, or be likely to be, present at that place.


(3) A person guilty of an offence of riot shall be liable on conviction on indictment to a fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or to both.

Helix

and youd consider beating a girl with a baton "reasonable force"? she wasnt fighting back

Iron Hide

My apologies i missed that! I do still believe that the force used by that Garda was excessive, but in fairness there were/are people on both sides that pushed things to the limit.
Someone mentioned in another thread that there were both protestors and members of an Garda Siochana that just wanted to cause trouble and i agree. Whoever started it i dont know and dont care, it has happened and there are parties from both sides in the wrong

Dublinstiofán

hondasam wrote: »

If gardai direct you to move ln you are obliged to comply. How did the protest get out of control?

Make no mistake about it. This was not the site of the protest. The protest was completed and the majority had gone home.

This element of trouble makers moved to a different street looking for trouble. This is where it got out of control and these 'students' who were not part of the USI as far as i can see only marched there to cause unnecessary hassle.

dermot_sheehan

Helix wrote: »

and youd consider beating a girl with a baton "reasonable force"? she wasnt fighting back

She was partaking in obstruction of the public right of way and engaging in a breach of the peace.

At worse she was engaging in riot
14.—(1) Where—
( a ) 12 or more persons who are present together at any place (whether that place is a public place or a private place or both) use or threaten to use unlawful violence for a common purpose, and
( b ) the conduct of those persons, taken together, is such as would cause a person of reasonable firmness present at that place to fear for his or another person's safety,
then, each of the persons using unlawful violence for the common purpose shall be guilty of the offence of riot.
(2) For the purposes of this section—
( a ) it shall be immaterial whether or not the 12 or more persons use or threaten to use unlawful violence simultaneously at any place;
( b ) the common purpose may be inferred from conduct;
( c ) no person of reasonable firmness need actually be, or be likely to be, present at that place.
(3) A person guilty of an offence of riot shall be liable on conviction on indictment to a fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or to both.
(4) The common law offence of riot is hereby abolished.

bigroad

Because of many protests coming down the line.The garda sickalooney have to show a credible force against the public.if not the protesting public will storm government buildings and overthrow the assh'les in there.So i would say they are being told to use good force and show the public that they have the power to controll .If its caught on tv its all the better.Watch this space. violance rocks .

Victor

dillo2k10 wrote: »

The girl Who was sitting down, protesting peacefully being repeatedly hit with a batten by the guards.

dillo2k10 wrote: »

they simply hit her over the head a few times.

Where in the video was anyone hit in the head?

Most of the baton use appears to be against the lower leg.

MagicSean

bigroad wrote: »

Because of many protests coming down the line.The garda sickalooney have to show a credible force against the public.if not the protesting public will storm government buildings and overthrow the assh'les in there.So i would say they are being told to use good force and show the public that they have the power to controll .If its caught on tv its all the better.Watch this space. violance rocks .

How sad. This is what free education is teaching? I've watched all the videos posted so far. The only trouble was in that area after the dept of finance was occupied. The gardai outside did not react despite having abuse and objects thrown at them for hours. Once the building was clear they pushed people back from the entrance. If you are in a group with people breaching the peace make no mistake, you are a part of the riot, even if your actions consist only of shielding the rest of the people. If you look at the video you will notice the speed at which the batons were swung had very little force and they appear to have been used as an extension of their arm.From what ive seen so far the
gardai did a great job. My only criticism would be the way the protestors were ejected from the dept of finance. I feel these people should have been arrested. Most injuries i saw on the videos appear to have been a result of this action.

everyday taxi

Roll on December (rubbing hands together!!)!! Those shi.tebags in yellow wont know what fookin hit them. Cowardly bast.ids the lotta them. And to hear some of you protecting their actions and quoting the manual?!, a disgrace to your forefathers.

MagicSean

everyday taxi wrote: »

Roll on December (rubbing hands together!!)!! Those shi.tebags in yellow wont know what fookin hit them. Cowardly bast.ids the lotta them. And to hear some of you protecting their actions and quoting the manual?!, a disgrace to your forefathers.

My forefathers were patriots and freedom fighters, not a bunch of yobs who think the rest of the country should fund their lives and give nothing in return.

source

everyday taxi wrote: »

Roll on December (rubbing hands together!!)!! Those shi.tebags in yellow wont know what fookin hit them. Cowardly bast.ids the lotta them. And to hear some of you protecting their actions and quoting the manual?!, a disgrace to your forefathers.

The manual as you put it, are in fact the laws that my, your and our forefathers laid down their lives fighting for. If people choose to disrespect the democracy that was fought for all those years ago, then it is they who are a disgrace to their forefathers.

I proudly stand in yellow as you put it, however i prefer blue, and serve my country and the people in it. Fighting for their right to live peacefully. If scumbags....sorry "activists" want to try to use violence to make a point then i will stand in front of them, and i will tell them that they will not harm any other citizen with their actions, and i will tell them that they will not disrupt the running of the state because they want to cause trouble.

If you think i'm a cowardly bastid, or a sh1tebag, then i dare you to even try to do my job for a day. You'd be at home whimpering and calling for your mammy after half a tour.

Crawl back under the rock you came from, until you have something constructive to add to the conversation.

and on that point.....I have also watched many of the videos put up, and I honestly believe that this was one of the best run public order operations i've ever seen. There was no excessive force used, force was used, however i have as yet seen nothing that could be construed as excessive.

It still amazes me how people can expect to not be hurt when involved in a riot. IF you riot and you take on the Gardai you will probably get hurt. The government gave us the power and equipment to use force if necessary....and if necessary it will be used.

As an aside i'm not in the DMR so wasn't present at that incident. before anybody starts saying that i was.

Bosco boy

Joe Duffy is currently investigating this whole matter on liveline, who needs the garda ombudsman, the ex student union leader is being totally impartial as usual. Jesus he tore strips of the eirigi woman the last day for pouring paint on harney and rightfully so but surely he could see that maybe the same sort of people might have been mingling in this group egging the situation on. Joe I would never hit anyone with a asp illegally but if you were in front of me I might just decide that the opportunity was too good to pass up on and say f**k with the job, I'd die happy!!!! Only in my dreams!!

Bosco boy

everyday taxi wrote: »

Roll on December (rubbing hands together!!)!! Those shi.tebags in yellow wont know what fookin hit them. Cowardly bast.ids the lotta them. And to hear some of you protecting their actions and quoting the manual?!, a disgrace to your forefathers.

Pull your curtains and hide behind your little computer, I'd say your a hard man and a credit to society, you wouldnt have the guts to do my job or deal with a fraction of what people in the emergency services have to deal with and who often have to sacrifice their lives doing so.

Reloc8

I don't think it is a very controversial proposition that citizens will and do feel a moral entitlement to use civil disorder as a protest method against things which annoy them.

There is an equal and opposite entitlement in the State to use lawful methods to control civil disorder.

Our law as enacted permits reasonable force to be used in preventing crime or a breach of the peace.

The people involved in this protest were indeed committing a number of offences; they deliberately and consciously chose to do so; they were unwilling to stop doing so when requested.

Our laws permit reasonable force to be used.

QED.

Was it 'reasonable force' to swing with batons at people who are sitting on the ground and refuse to move ? Everyone is entitled to an opinion on that and indeed our system provides for trial of persons suspected of assault and for a judge and judge or jury to decide. Those that say it was should be aware that they have no cause for complaint if similar treatment is meted out to persons who are exercising the same method of protest for a cause which they believe in.

Those who say it was not (reasonable) should be aware that they similarly have no cause for complaint in the event that persons taking part in civil disorder disrupt their lives or businesses are permitted to do so, with gardai taking a passive supervisory role.

I can't tell from the clip but I'm willing to presume unless anyone convinces me otherwise that warnings were given to this crowd of people that force would be used to clear the area. Those who chose to contest the area with members of our police force did so of their own free will and suffered the consequences, and presumably would do so again.

I respect their right to make that choice but insist that having made that choice does not give them a free run against the consequences of the choice.

I don't get why this is being trumped up into an ideological clash ('scabby students!' 'right wing nazis'). Its fairly basic.


edit : as a side comment, a lot of the sentiment attached to some of what is expressed in this thread is, in my opinion, sort of a double edged sword of the generally high regard we have (whether we realise it or not) for the fact that this country is policed, in the main, by an unarmed police force. We get uncomfortable when we see officers in riot gear swinging batons. In reality, surely none of us would want us to contract out of gardai acting on behalf of us as citizens from being empowered to address civil disorder even if we'd prefer not to have to look at the ugly work being done.

coylemj

everyday taxi wrote: »

Roll on December (rubbing hands together!!)!! Those shi.tebags in yellow wont know what fookin hit them. Cowardly bast.ids the lotta them. And to hear some of you protecting their actions and quoting the manual?!, a disgrace to your forefathers.

In a forum called '1 Thing you HATE more than anything...' your answer was:

this sh.it hole of a country.

so how do you have the right to invoke the forefathers who landed you in this dump?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=67814038#post67814038

cjthecrow

There were trouble makers on both sides. It's as simple as that. I'm a student but I was not at the protest. The main protest did end earlier and most had gone home. From what i've been told by friends at the protest, of the people that stayed it was a mix between the actual students that were protesting peacefully, students who had been drinking and wanted to start something off with the gaurds and members of political groups that I will not name that provoked people and took part themselves. Unfortunetly some innocent people were caught up in it all. Some of the force was a bit excessive, but at the end of the day nothing will come of it. But with the way things are going in this country and with the budget coming up i'd imagine there will be alot more of these riots and probably even worse ones for people gettin injured.

Macspower

foinse wrote: »

The manual as you put it, are in fact the laws that my, your and our forefathers laid down their lives fighting for. If people choose to disrespect the democracy that was fought for all those years ago, then it is they who are a disgrace to their forefathers.

I proudly stand in yellow as you put it, however i prefer blue, and serve my country and the people in it. Fighting for their right to live peacefully. If scumbags....sorry "activists" want to try to use violence to make a point then i will stand in front of them, and i will tell them that they will not harm any other citizen with their actions, and i will tell them that they will not disrupt the running of the state because they want to cause trouble.

If you think i'm a cowardly bastid, or a sh1tebag, then i dare you to even try to do my job for a day. You'd be at home whimpering and calling for your mammy after half a tour.

Crawl back under the rock you came from, until you have something constructive to add to the conversation.

and on that point.....I have also watched many of the videos put up, and I honestly believe that this was one of the best run public order operations i've ever seen. There was no excessive force used, force was used, however i have as yet seen nothing that could be construed as excessive.

It still amazes me how people can expect to not be hurt when involved in a riot. IF you riot and you take on the Gardai you will probably get hurt. The government gave us the power and equipment to use force if necessary....and if necessary it will be used.

As an aside i'm not in the DMR so wasn't present at that incident. before anybody starts saying that i was.

yeah big men indeed hiding behind shields and using battons on unarmed young people....

See how ye like it when the country take to the streets and your faced with real men! but of course you'll have tear gas and water cannons then!

But then again you could always shoot us like you did the guy in Abbeylara or frame us like ye did in Donegal... or just beat us up like ye did the young guy in his flat.

thank God ye no longer investigate yourselves!

MagicSean

Macspower wrote: »

yeah big men indeed hiding behind shields and using battons on unarmed young people....

See how ye like it when the country take to the streets and your faced with real men! but of course you'll have tear gas and water cannons then!

But then again you could always shoot us like you did the guy in Abbeylara or frame us like ye did in Donegal... or just beat us up like ye did the young guy in his flat.

thank God ye no longer investigate yourselves!

Clearly your a real hard man. Well done. If you ever decide what cause you are fighting against let us know.

Bosco boy

Macspower wrote: »

yeah big men indeed hiding behind shields and using battons on unarmed young people....

See how ye like it when the country take to the streets and your faced with real men! but of course you'll have tear gas and water cannons then!

But then again you could always shoot us like you did the guy in Abbeylara or frame us like ye did in Donegal... or just beat us up like ye did the young guy in his flat.

thank God ye no longer investigate yourselves!

I love you too!

Canis Lupus

Everyone needs to stop saying 'you're a hard man'. I'm getting grossed out.

Zambia

Macspower wrote: »

yeah big men indeed hiding behind shields and using battons on unarmed young people....

See how ye like it when the country take to the streets and your faced with real men! but of course you'll have tear gas and water cannons then!

But then again you could always shoot us like you did the guy in Abbeylara or frame us like ye did in Donegal... or just beat us up like ye did the young guy in his flat.

thank God ye no longer investigate yourselves!

You have proved one piont, students really need to work on their spelling that Text speak destroys.

In this case I believe the Garda gave ample time for the protesters to disperse and basically go away. This option was not taken the Gardai cannot arrest every single person in a formalised way. By sitting around in such large numbers the garda are forced to disperse you without sticking their hands and heads into the mob. God know what one of you little angels is carrying.

Secondly a garda is trained to strike low with a baton. If you decide to move your head below knee height in a riot or protest your quite frankly being an idiot. A garda striking at anothers leg could be seen as aiming for your head. Police officers do not whack people on the head with batons its not worth the paper work. The Garda is issued the Baton so they do not have to go hand to hand.

By even deploying the gardai in large numbers as seen you have struck a blow for the cause and cost the goverment a lot of money and deprieved the rest of dublin of those Garda to answer traffic accidents calls for help and such. Pity that money may have been ear marked for students.

Does anyone know what the ratio of protesters to Gardai was?

roboshatner

Don't think that deserves to be beat over the head with a baton.

Them things are sore.

Haddockman wrote: »

They refused to move when requested by the Gardaí. Totally justified in my opinion.

Sgt. Bilko 09

i think people are missing the point in why the public order unit was there in the first place.
1 gardai were there because apparently a left wing group took over the entrance to the department of finance building with staff still in side.

2 there were beer cans thrown at gardai which were opened at the time.
So if you have over 300 students some drunk and causing chaos people except gards to just sit there and take it.

3 If a group of students are all p!$$ed of over the fact that funds are been increased its whats happening to 6 millio people in the country get over it we all have problems but we don't riot over it (until december that is;)).

4 If a public order unit turns up its generally becuase the situation has gotten out of control hence the baton and shields.
Also if you notice in the other videos a glass bottle hit a female garda in the shoulder. Report by the garda obudsman states 9 garda were injured and any number of students.

5 you can also see k -9's there but you can hear some lil wierdo screaming sit down in the middle of the road.

LOOK AT THE MAY DAY RIOTS ON YOUTUBE SAME PROCEDURES ARE USED SIT DOWN IN A RIOT YOUR GOING TO GET WALKED ON HENCE THE PROBLEM THEY HAD

Sgt. Bilko 09

STUDENTS
http://www.youtube.com/v/-REt8kCjCRo?version=3"><param

Riots in 2006
http://www.youtube.com/v/unYlBWWZtDA?version=3"><param
Look from 1:26 onward exact same as what students done.

Gard's do the same thing everytime so stop moaning they hit you hard with a baton its a legal procedure

smiles302

Is it trespassing to enter the department of finance? Or were the break-off crowd within their rights to have a sit in protest there?

Seems rude if nothing else.

K-9

smiles302 wrote: »

Is it trespassing to enter the department of finance? Or were the break-off crowd within their rights to have a sit in protest there?

Seems rude if nothing else.

I'd say the Guards were more worried about the siege outside and wanting to clear that. Getting rid of the protesters was intrinsic to that.

Cosmic Penguin

Macspower wrote: »

yeah big men indeed hiding behind shields and using battons on unarmed young people....

See how ye like it when the country take to the streets and your faced with real men! but of course you'll have tear gas and water cannons then!

But then again you could always shoot us like you did the guy in Abbeylara or frame us like ye did in Donegal... or just beat us up like ye did the young guy in his flat.

thank God ye no longer investigate yourselves!

Wow, just wow

hondasam

Macspower wrote: »

yeah big men indeed hiding behind shields and using battons on unarmed young people....

See how ye like it when the country take to the streets and your faced with real men! but of course you'll have tear gas and water cannons then!

But then again you could always shoot us like you did the guy in Abbeylara or frame us like ye did in Donegal... or just beat us up like ye did the young guy in his flat.

thank God ye no longer investigate yourselves!

If you are one of these real men Id say AGS are shaking in their boots. Try and be impartial for a minute. Who started the public order? I’m sure it was not the gardai but the are duty bound to stop it.

Not relevant to what happened; while there might be wrongs on both sides there is no point in trying to justify what happened by blaming the gardai. If the protest remained peaceful we would not be having this debate now.

Victor

Sgt. Bilko 09 wrote: »

LOOK AT THE MAY DAY RIOTS ON YOUTUBE SAME PROCEDURES ARE USED SIT DOWN IN A RIOT YOUR GOING TO GET WALKED ON HENCE THE PROBLEM THEY HAD

Why are you "SHOUTING"?

The difference between this and the 2002 May Day "riot" was that individual gardaí lost control of themselves in 2002. http://www.independent.ie/national-news/may-day-riot-costs-state-83641m-in-fees-and-claims-1428497.html

coylemj

Irish Times has an article entitled What our reporters saw, the last two paragraphs are illuminating....

Interviewed later a student member of the Socialist Workers Party said a group from his party had met with like-minded colleagues from the Republican socialist movement Éirígí and the Free Education for Everyone movement a half-hour before the main protest began at 12.30pm.

He said they all expressed their unease with the tactics of the USI and were determined to be the most vocal and high-profile protesters.


Of course if that had been an IFA (farmers) march and those leftie thugs tried to hijack it, that would have had the crap kicked out of them as well but not by the cops, the farmers would have done it instead.

Main article here..

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1106/1224282790865.html

Sgt. Bilko 09

Victor wrote: »

Why are you "SHOUTING"?

The difference between this and the 2002 May Day "riot" was that individual gardaí lost control of themselves in 2002. http://www.independent.ie/national-news/may-day-riot-costs-state-83641m-in-fees-and-claims-1428497.html

Im not shouting simply stating the simple facts that some people are missing and that there were no comments made from any side on individual gards loosing control just protesters moaning because they got knocked of there perch.
We all have to pay extra to have a standard life in this country and its only going to get worse but who in there right mind would take siege of a finicail building.
The gards did hit protestors who then became rioters but thats what happens in a riot people get hit if you dont comply with general law and if you just sit in the middle of a road and not listen to them which you can clearly hear some guy saying.
And if you throw glass bottles of beer and cans of beer at gards also mars bars what do they except them to do. Oh and also they threw the sign boards that they appararently used for signage in the prostest.
So no matter what way you look at it they were in the wrong and paid the price