starting to farm

jfh

Hi All,
i'm in the process of getting a herd number & renting 25 acres of the aul man. i've got a few suckler cows as it stands.
now i'm wondering whats the best method of farming this land, i'm under no illusions that i'm going to make any serious money from this venture but i like it. just to give an idea;
about 25 acres, 12 of which will need to be reseeded in the spring, the other 13 is good, craggy in parts so could outwinter a few cattle no bother.
i'm working fulltime so basicially looking for a low cost, low maintaince system that returns money! not too much to ask for:D

is there anyone on here that farms dexters, am seriously thinking of getting into them and looking for advise. my main worry is i'll make a mess of this, should i stick to the safe option of buying in cattle in spring and selling them on? don't think the neighbours/family would be impressed if i started farming dexters, see it as a step backwards.
really want to get it right.
any advise welcome.

snowman707

jfh wrote: »

my main worry is i'll make a mess of this, should i stick to the safe option of buying in cattle in spring and selling them on? don't think the neighbours/family would be impressed if i started farming dexters, see it as a step backwards.
really want to get it right.
any advise welcome.

don't worry about doing things wrong or making a mess of it, only start to worry if you make the same mistake twice;)

sorry have no info on the dexters but I think some of the other boardsies may be able to help,

don't worry about the neighbours but try not to cause friction within the family if you can,

Good Luck !!

kay 9

Good advice above. As for the dexters, I'm 99% sure they get a grant for keeping dexters and other rare breeds in the Uk but I doubt we have such a scheme running as of yet! Do you realise how small they are? You would probably have to use a dexter bull aswell and uless there is a special demand or market for them here they would not make you enough of a return. I'm sure someone will be along to say for sure if there is any extra money for keeping them or grants etc. Nice cattle though:)

jfh

kay 9 wrote: »

Good advice above. As for the dexters, I'm 99% sure they get a grant for keeping dexters and other rare breeds in the Uk but I doubt we have such a scheme running as of yet! Do you realise how small they are? You would probably have to use a dexter bull aswell and uless there is a special demand or market for them here they would not make you enough of a return. I'm sure someone will be along to say for sure if there is any extra money for keeping them or grants etc. Nice cattle though:)

hi kay 9, yeah there's definetly a grant for them, not sure if i'd have to get into the new REPS to get it though, i've seen posts on here where a factory up north is processing dexter beef(crossgar meats) long way up though.

anyone know how i'f find out about the grants for the dexters?

kay 9

jfh wrote: »

hi kay 9, yeah there's definetly a grant for them, not sure if i'd have to get into the new REPS to get it though, i've seen posts on here where a factory up north is processing dexter beef(crossgar meats) long way up though.

anyone know how i'f find out about the grants for the dexters?

Are ya in reps yet or is your old man claiming reps? If so just call your planner and ask them to find out how much of a grant is going for them. It might be in the farmers handbook actually which you can purchase in any teagasc office, I'll check it out tomorrow and see. Might be interested in getting a few of them myself, a lad would keep alot more of them to the acre and if there is a special demand for them it would be nice too. hmm, best keep this one quiet;) hush hush. I'll get back to ya morrow if I see anything about it in the handbook. Lovely little cattle they are.

Username John

kay 9 wrote: »

Are ya in reps yet or is your old man claiming reps? If so just call your planner and ask them to find out how much of a grant is going for them. It might be in the farmers handbook actually which you can purchase in any teagasc office, I'll check it out tomorrow and see. Might be interested in getting a few of them myself, a lad would keep alot more of them to the acre and if there is a special demand for them it would be nice too. hmm, best keep this one quiet;) hush hush. I'll get back to ya morrow if I see anything about it in the handbook. Lovely little cattle they are.

See here for REPS4 Farmers handbook
It seems keeping dexter cattle are Supplementary Measure 3.

Link here states "€234 per LU of the breed registered with the breed society"

But... my understanding is you cant add measures into a REPS plan once its submitted? Maybe am wrong... Let us know how you get on.

jfh

thanks John, will have to get onto a REPS planner to sus it out. the land wasin REPS with my father but he finished this year so i should be able to get in, i think?

adne

jfh wrote: »

thanks John, will have to get onto a REPS planner to sus it out. the land wasin REPS with my father but he finished this year so i should be able to get in, i think?

Entries to REPS closed since May 09.

jfh

right adne, thanks, should have know that. the AEOS scheme, do you reckon a new entrant could get into this?

5live

jfh wrote: »

right adne, thanks, should have know that. the AEOS scheme, do you reckon a new entrant could get into this?

You should be ok but the application starts with next years SFP scheme in may. Assuming there is still a scheme. Assuming there is still a country:eek:

jfh

thanks 5live, that's one of the reasons i'm checking out going on my own, i've always had a few cattle & have the green cert for years so it'll keep me busy.
so if there's anyone on here that recently started farming, let me know the steps you took, i'm putting of contacting teagasc till i have a rough idea of what to do. don't have much to invest so was looking at getting started with the dexters.

adne

jfh wrote: »

thanks 5live, that's one of the reasons i'm checking out going on my own, i've always had a few cattle & have the green cert for years so it'll keep me busy.
so if there's anyone on here that recently started farming, let me know the steps you took, i'm putting of contacting teagasc till i have a rough idea of what to do. don't have much to invest so was looking at getting started with the dexters.

I think it would be unwise to start with dexters as they are a niche animal therefore info on the sales / buying / feedin etc will not be as commonly known than if you started with say a few suckler Limx.

What im saying is the average joe soap you may not be able to help you out with advice if you go the niche route.

Just my Opinion

jfh

yeah that's what's troubling me, the buying, feeding, rearing would be managable it's the final sale that's the issue. if i knew any butchers around i'd ask their opinion on marketing the beef. seems to be a lot of farmers in england selling direct to the customer. realise that would be a lot of hassle and one would want to get double what they'd make in the factory,
dunno just thinking out loud!

Username John

jfh wrote: »

thanks 5live, that's one of the reasons i'm checking out going on my own, i've always had a few cattle & have the green cert for years so it'll keep me busy.
so if there's anyone on here that recently started farming, let me know the steps you took, i'm putting of contacting teagasc till i have a rough idea of what to do. don't have much to invest so was looking at getting started with the dexters.

I only moved home there 2 years ago. Started farming then as well. Nothing big now, just a few sheep, I have an interest in em.
I managed to get into REPS4 thankfully. All am doing now is trying to improve the place, clean it up, fencing, bit of reseeding. But tis the REPS money is allowing me to doa lot of that...
I would say try to get into AEOS or whatever the new scheme is, if tis still there next year.

I didnt go next nor near Teagasc until very recently. I thought that I needed to sort out for myself what to do. Am sure Teagasc might tell me whats the best thing to make money based on their profit figures. But I wanted to see what worked for me, and more importantly, what I liked and disliked.
However - as you say you have cattle a few years, you might already be here. So maybe having a chat with some advisor might be a good idea.

If you have facilites for cattle, and an interest, then this is what you should do. I dont really know much about cattle, but I always thought if you could get away with outwintering em, than you should try it. But you'd need to check it out, am not sure of the regulations...
But if you did, you would save on buildings cost, slurry, thrive issues when you first put em in, dosing?

As for Dexters (not a cattle man, there are plenty on here with good cattle knowledge) but I would have thought Dexters are grand if you have your market sourced and agreed before you commit.
Otherwise, would you not be better off with some other hardy enough breed. We used to outwinter cattle before, mainly herefords, and were very happy with how they did... But not sure how the new beef breeds would do...

Pharaoh1

Just wondering what people think of the idea of outwintering.

I used to do it up until a few years back but gave it up when I joined REPS -even though REPS would allow it at a low stocking rate.
I would never go back to it now.

The OP mentions reseeding about half his land but I wonder would a few years of outwintering undo all this good work.
I know you could shut them into a small area but no matter what way you do it you will get a lot of muck and retarded grass growth in the spring.

Having said that I like to buy outwintered cattle in the Spring for health reasons.

Username John

Pharaoh1 wrote: »

Just wondering what people think of the idea of outwintering.

I used to do it up until a few years back but gave it up when I joined REPS -even though REPS would allow it at a low stocking rate.
I would never go back to it now.

The OP mentions reseeding about half his land but I wonder would a few years of outwintering undo all this good work.
I know you could shut them into a small area but no matter what way you do it you will get a lot of muck and retarded grass growth in the spring.

Having said that I like to buy outwintered cattle in the Spring for health reasons.

We used to outwinter on a rocky peice of ground, which was perfect as it wasnt really much good for grazing (there was only strips of grass between rocks) But it was sheltery, and solid enough to get to feed them.
We have a 'glen' that we used as well - this is a scrubby, wooded area with no real grass. So it wouldnt matter too much. But it was years since we had cattle.

Am in REPS now as well, so cattle are a no-no for me.

Am curious why you say you would never go back to it now?

Pharaoh1

Username John wrote: »

We used to outwinter on a rocky peice of ground, which was perfect as it wasnt really much good for grazing (there was only strips of grass between rocks) But it was sheltery, and solid enough to get to feed them.
We have a 'glen' that we used as well - this is a scrubby, wooded area with no real grass. So it wouldnt matter too much. But it was years since we had cattle.

Am in REPS now as well, so cattle are a no-no for me.

Am curious why you say you would never go back to it now?

I suppose if you are confining them to an area like you describe it might be worth considering but a lot of the outwintering I see also allows cattle to roam over a big area of ground and results in very late grass growth.

As to why I would never do it again - well I sold the last of my 30 summer grazed cattle this week and the margin (difference between mart buy and sell price) was over 280 euro. Add in the 90 odd bales of silage I sold and I'm happy enough. Time to tidy up the fencing hedges etc.. over the winter and get ready for early grazing in mid to late Feb if the weather allows.
When I think back to mucking around with round bales and feeders and trying to repair poached ground I wonder why I bothered.
Went through the costs of building a shed with my Teagasc advisor but when the figures were done he advised me to forget about it and keep doing what I was doing.

Username John

Pharaoh1 wrote: »

As to why I would never do it again - well I sold the last of my 30 summer grazed cattle this week and the margin (difference between mart buy and sell price) was over 280 euro. Add in the 90 odd bales of silage I sold and I'm happy enough. Time to tidy up the fencing hedges etc.. over the winter and get ready for early grazing in mid to late Feb if the weather allows.
When I think back to mucking around with round bales and feeders and trying to repair poached ground I wonder why I bothered.

I can see why you would say it now all right...

bbam

Pharaoh1 wrote: »

the margin (difference between mart buy and sell price) was over 280 euro.

Have you taken meal, grass, and similar costs into account here or is this just the purchase price minus the retail price ?

kay 9

jfh wrote: »

thanks John, will have to get onto a REPS planner to sus it out. the land wasin REPS with my father but he finished this year so i should be able to get in, i think?

Was talking to reps planner today and asked him about the grants for said subject and he told me that it doesn;t exist anymore in the new reps 5 or aeos scheme(whatever its caled). Anyone get paid in the new scheme yet? Apparently the new scheme will remain in place as it's an EU directive which is good. Good it wasn't left up to our cowboy statesmen as they tried to abolish reps after reps 4 finished for lads:rolleyes: I'm beginnig to like the Germans:D Time to bring on the IMF now too I think and straighten out this place for once and for all. Farmers gettin almost the same prices for the last 30 years:rolleyes:.

Ps. sorry for the ramble...

futurefarmer

Something a lil similiar
uncle (bachelor) has asked me 2 help out alot more on his small 30ac farm with a view 2 taking it over in 5-7 years, i havve very lil experience so the time will be needed delighted to be asked and very excited, i work fulltime so it will only ever be a part time operation, but under no illusion will need lots of work........... Land is mainly good but the sheds are old and completely unsuitable for wintering cattle (has about 12 cows, 14 calf, 2 bulls and a handfull of bullocks) he wants 2 improve things with my help but i really dont know where 2 start, willing to invest but not sure if a slatted house is needed for this amount of animals ?? or could i do it differently

Any help appreciated

kay 9

A slatted house will make your life a hell of a alot easier in 5-7 yrs when you finally take it over if you inntend on keeping the day job, and want to keep cattle also. Not nice feeding stock out on dark evenings after work;) New grant coming in now too for sheep pens.

jfh

thought one needed to have sheep last year to avail of grant?

futurefarmer

Thanks for that, will need 2 look into a slatted unit but would only need a small one enough for about 30 cows, anyone any idea how much this would cost, ballpark figure i really havent a clue

I think the sheep pins is a bridge 2 far even if it is grant aided dont think i would have the land 2 carry them, stick 2 the cattle i thinks

Pharaoh1

bbam wrote: »

Have you taken meal, grass, and similar costs into account here or is this just the purchase price minus the retail price ?

The 280 euro doesn't include any of the costs so after I take out transport, fertilizer, dosing, vet fees, meal and all the other usual bits and pieces there won't be a whole lot left.

bbam

Pharaoh1 wrote: »

The 280 euro doesn't include any of the costs so after I take out transport, fertilizer, dosing, vet fees, meal and all the other usual bits and pieces there won't be a whole lot left.

Yeah but as you said you get the winter off and have the silage to sell...
Cheers

ihatetractors

futurefarmer wrote: »

Thanks for that, will need 2 look into a slatted unit but would only need a small one enough for about 30 cows, anyone any idea how much this would cost, ballpark figure i really havent a clue

I think the sheep pins is a bridge 2 far even if it is grant aided dont think i would have the land 2 carry them, stick 2 the cattle i thinks

Am, bout 30,000 - 50,000k? depends on how well you fit it out id reckon, ie slat mats etc. Be sure to shop well around, we put up a shed recently that we were originaly quoted 20k , did most of it with the cousin as he's his own digger (qualified tool maker gone digger driver), rented shuttering etc and finished it off at 12,800. could of done it cheaper probably if we used lower N cement etc, but we intend to use it as overflow capacity for grain

kay 9

ihatetractors wrote: »

Am, bout 30,000 - 50,000k? depends on how well you fit it out id reckon, ie slat mats etc. Be sure to shop well around, we put up a shed recently that we were originaly quoted 20k , did most of it with the cousin as he's his own digger (qualified tool maker gone digger driver), rented shuttering etc and finished it off at 12,800. could of done it cheaper probably if we used lower N cement etc, but we intend to use it as overflow capacity for grain

Ya done well to see it through for around 12. Where did ye get the slats or did ye mould them yerselves

kay 9

jfh wrote: »

thought one needed to have sheep last year to avail of grant?

Thats a different grant, thats for the number of head ya have, there is grant in the way or here already that gives 4000 if ya have 10. Not sure of exact figures mate to be honest. I'll ask again. Not as good as 80% grant for slatted sheds a couple years ago..

futurefarmer

Thanks for that very useful, now at least i have a rough price guide in my head even if it is a lil higher than i thought, seems like alot for a 2 bay slatted unit ! but i guess u get what u pay for

kay 9

Shop around and get plenty of quotes, there is plenty of lads at it and for a 2bay I think you should be able build it for much less than 30 tbh. Do as much work as you can yourself like prepping for tanks(Hire a digger) Buy the materials etc.

futurefarmer

had a figure in my own head of 25k so will have 2 get some quotes next spring, it neads to be done the set up now is pretty crazy and very old school, lots of work for feck all return

kay 9

At the end of the day most farmers in this country are relatively small and only just surviving. Most do it for the gra of it including myself. There is never good returns. Nice hobby is about all. So be nice to make your hobby a little easier with a slatted shed;)
Ps. I'd be thinking even less than 25k if it were me, do as much as ya can yourself. You don;t need registered contractor to do it as grants are obselete anymore(for now anyway)

ihatetractors

kay 9 wrote: »

Ya done well to see it through for around 12. Where did ye get the slats or did ye mould them yerselves

No it was an old outhouse/shed we knocked,there over 50 year!. put in a proper workshop/extra storage for trailers/ grain

adne

ihatetractors wrote: »

rented shuttering etc

Where can u rent the shuttering from?

adne

futurefarmer wrote: »

Thanks for that very useful, now at least i have a rough price guide in my head even if it is a lil higher than i thought, seems like alot for a 2 bay slatted unit ! but i guess u get what u pay for

You said in an earlier post about 30 cows... u wont fit 30 Cows in a 2 bay shed unless u stack them 2 high !!!!

futurefarmer

Well observed yeah i think 3 bay is much more realistic with a creep area behind, i aint no farmer but i will get there lol
A grant would be handy but such is life !

futurefarmer

ummm stacking them 2 high :rolleyes: now theirs a thought hehe

thetiredfarmer

I'm working on prices at the moment for 5 bay by 14'6" slat (15'9" bays)
Hole dug,concrete poured,slats delivered,roof on all for 26K inc.Vat.
Barriers,water and electricity not included. Does this sound ok to you guys?

ihatetractors

adne wrote: »

Where can u rent the shuttering from?

Local contractor had them, we gave them a home while he was buisy at silage;)