Studio Lighting question

squareballoon

I have decided to invest in a studio light for the winter months. I really like the results I've seen from the [SIZE=-1]AlienBees B800 [/SIZE] with the 50"x50" wescott softbox.
Is it possible to get these in Ireland and if not what would the equivalent be here, what cost and where to buy?

gloobag

Paul C Buff now ships to Europe:
https://paulcbuff.eu.com/cms/

And you can get the 50" Westcott here (the site isn't in English, but I've managed to buy from them a few times without any hassle. Delivery was fairly quick as well):
Westcott 50" Apollo

I've never seen either for sale in any shop here in Ireland.

squareballoon

Thanks for that but after looking at the Alienbee I'm confused. Are the Alienbees not continuous lighting? I'm a bit clueless about lighting.

gloobag

Nope, they're a strobe, so need to be triggered like any external flash. They have a modeling light alright, which will give you an idea of where the fired strobes light will fall, but defo not continuous.

squareballoon

thanks a million. I clearly need to do more research on the subject

So to change the question. What should I get if I want a continous light that I can use with a large softbox that would be bright enough to light a family of say 6?
Do I need something like this


or this


and can I use either or both with a softbox?

JayEnnis

I think strobes are more versatile than hot lights, why are you limiting yourself to them? If need be you can use the strobes for sports.

DotOrg

squareballoon wrote: »

thanks a million. I clearly need to do more research on the subject

So to change the question. What should I get if I want a continous light that I can use with a large softbox that would be bright enough to light a family of say 6?
and can I use either or both with a softbox?

i was the same before buying lighting, thought continuous lights would be much easier and better but after doing a little research you'll find that strobes (flashes) are much better to use for things like portraits. Continuous lights are really only used for video

you should hire out a studio for a couple of hours and have a play with their lights. i use this place: http://www.dstudiosphotography.com/#/hire
and pay around €60 for two hours. You'll learn how flexible and easy lights are after a few minutes. Perfecting them however, will take years of practice

squareballoon

The reason i don't want strobes is because we use two cameras. One Nikon and one Canon and i want us both to be able to use the light during the same shoot. And also I don't like the idea of flashes with babies and children because it's distracting for them. Especially sleeping babies who tend to flinch if the flash goes off when they're almost asleep
Are continuous lights really a bad idea for a studio?

DotOrg

squareballoon wrote: »

The reason i don't want strobes is because we use two cameras. One Nikon and one Canon and i want us both to be able to use the light during the same shoot.

again, that makes no difference, all strobes work with all cameras

squareballoon wrote: »

And also I don't like the idea of flashes with babies and children because it's distracting for them.
Are continuous lights really a bad idea for a studio?

you'd find that the heat that continuous lights give out, far more unpleasant for young kids. There are loads of photo studios around Dublin, they all use strobes for photography.

It does seem challenging to start off with strobes but they have so much more flexibility than continuous lights. Continuous lights don't give you the options of things like, snoots, ringlights, quick-change softboxes

squareballoon

Thanks so much for the hand holding on this! So if I bought an SB800 and a 50x50 soft box what else would I have to buy so that the light flashed whenever Nicole or I took a shot. So we need transmitters or pocket wizards to make it work?

DotOrg

an sb800 is a nikon flash, so to use with a canon you'd need something like a pocket wizard. but in general if you are starting out with studio lights, you'll want more than just one.

something like: http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/item/BW4717UK/
would be a good starter and you simply plug a cable from one of the lights into your camera. then you can expand into wireless transmitters at a later date

But still, for the cost of €60 i think you should hire out a studio for a couple of hours, just to get yourself familiar with studio lighting, or get somebody with that kind of kit, and let them show you their kit

JayEnnis

I haven't had trouble with my cheap ebay triggers, they do lack range which isn't an issue in a studio. Just attach the reciever to the strobe head with a pc cord as I've had my sb-600 fall out of the hot shoe mount.

ditpaintball

If you are a studio then you will need 'studio lights' and not a speedlight.

As great as speedlights are, the SB800 is not a studio light. It can be used as one but you are not going to use it every day. For a little bit extra, you can an elichrom D-lite 4 kit which has two light and two softboxes.

Studio lights have so much more power than speedlights, don't need batteries and have more modifiers available.

oshead

Lynn. Part of the problem you face is the style of work you do. As you mentioned earlier, I too, have found that some young children do flinch and can become uncomfortable when a strobe fires. Lots of peeps here are pushing for strobes probably cos that's what they've used and know.

I think continuous lighting can fit the bill. My main concerns when buying any continuous system would be with the power output. They would need to be strong enough to shoot indoor family/group portraits with settings such as f11, 125sec, ISO 100 @ 2 meters. Are they dim-able? For newborn shoots, say f2.8, 125sec, ISO 100 @ 1 meter. What modifiers can you attach to them? 1.5 meter Octabox would probably suit. Do they run hot or cold? You may want to match them up with the window light. What colour temp lights are available for the system? You may need to use sheets of gels if balancing with daylight. Would you be comfortable doing this? Will they need to be portable?

If you can find the answers to these questions and are still happy to get a continuous set, the advantages can be very good. Namely... being able to shoot simultaneously with another photographer. Also a big advantage is being able to shoot in short bursts of three or four at a go. For toddler's, this alone would sway the argument for me. One problem with very bright continuous light is children tend to squint when facing into it.

In saying all that, when purchasing lights last year, after doing loads of research, I opted for a pair of Elinchrom BXRi 500s, mainly because they are quite portable.

squareballoon

Thank you SO much everyone. There are so many different types of lighting and I still feel like I'm only scratched the surface. I bought lights a long time ago but they were rubbish and no better really than having a bright lamp on so I never used them except in really dark houses.
Now we don't really go to other houses so my lighting now doesn't really need to be portable.
I quite like the look of this set but wondering if 100w would be bright enough to give this kind of light

gloobag

If you're buying studio lights I'd recommend at least 400w.
The ones DotOrg linked to would be a good start.
AlienBees would be good also, but probably a bit more expensive.

I'd probably stick with you're original plan of the 50" Westcott as well.
I've used it a few times and it is excellent at what it does (soft yet directional light). I own the 28" version and I'd recommend that also.

oshead

squareballoon wrote: »

I quite like the look of this set but wondering if 100w would be bright enough to give this kind of light

That kind of light your looking at there is not so much the lights themselves but the modifiers. Large, circular and highly diffused. Though for sleeping babies, catch lights shouldn't really matter. Typically you'd be looking to get the equivalent of 10,000 watt of tungsten lights. Remember, watt output is not a measure of light, just the power output of the bulb. It can be quite difficult to get your head around how to measure light output. Do a wiki search for Lumen or Lux. If I where in the market for continuous lights, i'd probably be looking at something like this.

A bank of 20 or so compact florescent bulbs.



They would run cool, though are not dim-able. Have 4 segments (on off switches). The diffusion spans 1.5 meters across. A light like this with both diffusers on would give you 1900 lux @2 meters. That's probably between f2.8 to f4, ISO 100 @ 2 meter. It is rated at 690 watts which is equivalent to about 3500 for regular incandescent bulbs. So, as you see, to have any decent sort of output you would need two of these or more. Most pros who work with continuous lights would say 10,000 is the magic number with regular incandescent. So compact fluorescents up to about 1800 watts power.

Even though these numbers may scare you away, I have to admit, they are a little shocking. I think you may be able to make do with a solution like this. If you have a look at the meta data of most of your images, the newborn shots are probably all shot around f2 @ 100sec, ISO 100, with big soft light from the window. For the larger family shots, you'd need to supplement the light, probably with window light, upping the ISO and moving the softbox in closer. This light would indeed fit the bill.

So the lights you mentioned here look woefully underpowered and are probably only suitable for product photography. Ie, Still subjects, use of a tripod and implementing longer shutter speeds.

ValueInIreland

Unless you are shooting video, my choice would still be for Studio flash. The Elinchrom D-Lite 4-it kit is superb - a two head kit with 66cm Softboxes for under €675. Babies may flinch for the first frame or so, but they adapt quickly.
If you still want continuous light, go for the new units that use compact fluorescent lamps. They are Daylight balanced, cool and controllable as each bulb can be switched on separately.
Interfit do several kits, but have a look at these two: http://www.interfitphotographic.com/Lighitng/Lighting%20index.htm or: http://www.interfitphotographic.com/Lighitng/Lighting%20index.htm

Each CFL bulb gives about 4 x the output of it's actual rating (ex 5 x 28w bulbs use 140w Power but has the equivalent of approx 600W).

A quick note for anybody considering AlienBees: From what I can see here: http://www.alienbees.com/specs.html they are 120V, so won't work here (well, you might get ONE big flash!).

oshead

ValueInIreland wrote: »

A quick note for anybody considering AlienBees: From what I can see here: http://www.alienbees.com/specs.html they are 120V, so won't work here (well, you might get ONE big flash!).

Had you read the second post in this thread, Gloobag mentioned that Paul C. Buff now imports AB's to the UK. Yes, that's the 240 volts version. Even before they started importing you could choose 240v by special order from their American site for no extra cost.

eas

In case you're interested, DML are having a free studio portrait lighting seminar on Tuesday.

http://www.dml.ie/eMerchantPro/pc/viewContent.asp?idpage=42